Still searching

From Michael R.

I have recently discovered this site and find it fascinating. I also have been seeking answers because of the promises that Christianity give just don’t come true. I will share my life story later as to why I am leaving the faith. But for now, I have a question that I would love to hear some comments about.

The one idea that sticks in my mind still is the mark of the beast. With technology today, it seems that the bible prophecy is close to becoming true. I have read where the banking industry (among others) is pushing for a paperless society. So what do you all think?

Still searching.


Jamie said...

Adventists believed the Mark was keeping Sunday as the Sabbath instead of Saturday...

So there are different interpretations, some having nothing to do with a paperless society...

I'm seeking information on prophecy as see how effectively what I was taught can be debunked, or if it can..

PerryStL said...

Bible prophecy is coming true?

Nothing gets people to shut-up and follow blindly like a good doomsday claim.

They've been making doomsday predictions since the book was written.

The events come and go without God coming down to eat us and the churches conveniently forget their assertions and start a new doomsday prediction.

Here's my prediction: Religion, not some imaginary God, will kill us all. Unfortunately, I won't get a chance to dance around and sing, "I told you so!"...

Dead people don't get to sing or gloat, they're too busy being dead.

Edwardtbabinski said...

How Do I Deal with the Multitude of Prophetic Passages?/Israel or Palestine? What Are the Claims and Counter-Claims? Are the Ancient Promises of the Bible Relevant Today?

Edwardtbabinski said...

Also see my article rebutting "end times prophecies"

I think both of them will help you over your fears. Not to mention my longer piece that's online, "The Lowdown on God's Showdown"

Or type babinski and "end times" into a google search engine

Edward T. Babinski (author of Leaving the Fold: Testimonies of Former Fundamentalists, Prometheus Books)

Edwardtbabinski said...

Sorry, the link didn't show in my previous email, connect it up, take the space out between .us/ and feedback/ and you should get there.

myqel said...

Unless you are getting paid in cash and make only cash purchases, the government already knows how, when and where you are spending your money.

The "paperless" society is already here. I can have my paycheck deposited directly to my account and only use my debit card for purchases.

jimearl said...

I'll go along with Perry on this one. If there is anything we all need to fear besides our president, it's religion. Most people think there is nothing wrong with religion and that could be the downfall of the world. I hope I'm wrong about this.

TruthWarrior said...

I think Revelation was just a rant against the roman government back whenever it was written just as they make it against any government system today. The preterist Christians tend to make more sense of it. But "fulfilled prophecy" is no fun. You can't make action all the fear-mongering action packed books, movies and video games on something that isn't set in our current times, something that doesn't scare the poop out of people. It just doesn't sell. It sold back then, but not now, so they're always adapting a new anti-Christ and mark of the beast system every year to keep people on their toes. A million different theories. Fun fun fun!

Whats scary is governments influenced by all this wack-a-do crap, ironically fulfilling it all by their actions.

End of the world predictions:

Articles by preterist christians:

Roger O'Donnell said...

Ever noticed that prophesy didn't predict a damned thing? Everything is 'predicted' just after what was 'prophesied' happened. Biblical prophecy has been unreliable for years. Anyone else remember Bar codes being the mark of the Beast in the mid-80s?

Nvrgoingbk said...

Jim Earl said: "If there is anything we all need to fear besides our president, it's religion."

Hey Jim, is there a difference anymore? :-)

Michael R: Bible prophecy is NOT being fulfilled. Jesus' own prophecies did not even come to pass, much less any from Revelation. The Book of Rev. claims that none would be able to buy or sell lest they have the mark of the beast. It never claims just what the "mark" is. It is claimed to be in the form of three 6's and is supposed to be the number of man. It is also claimed that the beast would sit on seven hills. Rome calls itself the city that sits on seven hills. The area code of Rome is 666. Many of the Roman Catholic positions held such as Pope, pontiff, etc. can be calculated from Roman numerals to equal 666. Do some googling and you can read more about it. The Antichrist is also claimed to be one that would not take a woman, which could also point to the Roman Catholic tradition of celibacy among priests and the pope.

Anyway, there are many conspiracy theories surrounding end-time prophecy. Research the ancient Mayan predictions of the world ending in 2012. Many cultures around the world predict "end-time" events happening at approximately the same time. Does that mean, we should restore the old Mayan ruins and begin ushering in the worship of Mayan gods? I hardly think so. There are devout followers of Nostradamous' predictions, as well, but I doubt that you will be rounding up any faithful adherents and ushering in the fulfillment of HIS prophecies, now will you?

Just live your life. I was once obsessed with end-time events and prophecies. I had dreams of being beheaded for my faith. I was absolutely convinced that I would die a martyr's death, and now, here I am, an apostate of that faith.

A paperless society is NOT a bad thing, in and of itself, as I once thought, but it does have serious ramifications. However, you can't expect a world inhabited by over 6 billiion people to keep paper records of EVERYTHING, especially when scientists are warning us of the dangers of cutting down anymore of our natural resources.

Don't stop searching, and Lord knows, should you have a "Holy Shit!" moment or some epiphany, don't hesitate to share it with the rest of us heathens.

mike said...

Hello everyone,

I just wanted to thank you all for the information and the links for furture study. I am glad that there is a place such as this so one can explore the other side of the issues.

Thanks again, Mike

Steven Bently said...

Anyone else remember Bar codes being the mark of the Beast in the mid-80s?

Before that, the fear based prophesy of:

one world government(per. HW Bush-sr.), one world currency, Ronald Reagan, computers, binary punch cards, charge cards, the Illuminati, Charles Manson, the Beatles, social security numbers, finger prints, Adolf Hitler, paper money, comets, false prophets, demons, Leprosy, swine, Satan, etc.

freedy said...

Christianity,and all religions are just forms of ancient entertainment.

Prophecy,words of wisdom,prayer lines are just old forms of soothsaying and magic, such as John Edwards,Sylvia Brown and Criss Angel are today.
I spent twenty years tricking people with my prophetic music ministry, I know first hand what a bunch of crap it is!

bahali said...

Though the Bible may not be inspired by God, there is more to Biblical prophecy than most people think. Consider the following:
1. Societies tend to become more complacent about moral standards over time. In our present society, sex, drugs, and alcohol are definitely rampant in our society as we seem to concentrate more on human nature rather than repressing it. Religion is a means of controlling people so that these things are not too big of a problem, but we are rejecting religion.
2. As morality defined by religion breaks down, people become more animalistic. For example, in our society, we advertise sex to an extreme. This causes marriages to break down, families to become more dysfunctional, children to pick up more bad habits, and crime to increase.
3. In order to deal with these new problems in society, governments must try to compensate where religion left off. This means more and more laws and harsher punishments until some kind of equilibrium is established.
4. Once equilibrium is established, it is only a matter of time before it is upset again, and the cycle repeats. The problem is that societies become less and less civilized as they begin to accept more animalistic qualities of humanity.
I know all of this sounds like one big domino effect, but this is pretty much how all societies have worked. The Bible warns of the kind of behaviors (i.e. natural human instincts) that lead to an unstructured society. Time after time, the Bible has been proven right in this context over and over. It is just a general observation of how societies decay over time. The mark of the beast is just a more extreme measure of the government to reach equilibrium. Of course, this does not mean Jesus is coming back; God is not necessary to know that every country will eventually collapse someday.

tigg13 said...

bahali, I think you are generalizing and over-simplifying this issue. Societies do go through cycles, but these cycles are not just based on morality/immorality.

Population density, availability of food and natural resources, the stability of neighboring societies and climate and weather are just some of the other factors that can cause shifts in a society.

Christians are always quick to point at the number of drug related crimes, divorces, violent crimes and such and compare it to decreasing attendences in churches as proof that no religion equals no social order.

But consider; would there be a drug problem if drugs were legal? If marriage were strictly a personal commitment based on love and not a legal contract regulated by the state, would divorce or adultery really be such a big deal? If our economy wasn't so bad - if unemployment was lower and health care were available to everybody, would there be so much crime?

I don't see our society as suffering from a lack of religion. I see religion suffering from its inability to make a difference in our society.

gimmeadrinkawater said...

Jim Earl: you say: "Most people think there is nothing wrong with religion and that could be the downfall of the world. I hope I'm wrong about this."
I hope you are too! Why would the world fall down around religion? It's been coming and going ever since man invented religion and is still going, and in fact has a huge population of educated, non-religious people in it. And even if a nuclear bomb went off in the name of religion, it most certainly could go off in the name of a new atheistic Hitler. Sorry to be so non-partisan about it. I don't like doomsday anything, except for climate change, which unlike mankind, is nowadays largely predictable.


mike said...


I see some really great comments here. I used to think that religion was a moral compass and that society would break down. However, it is obvious that is not the case. For instance look at Ted Haggard and the many other cases of adultry that are found in churches today, not to mention fraud etc etc. I have recently learned that a person that goes to the church I used to go to just had a threesome! With all the teaching and preaching against immoral behavior in church why is it that so many dont "live" by those teachings? I think the real saving grace is to teach people how to use their minds in an effective maner. I see in thinking people a higher standard of morality overall. It is not religion that keeps me from murder. It is my standard that it is abhorant. I do agree that societies do breakdown, but that might be due to our intellectual laziness more then anything.

gimmeadrinkawater said...

I agree that you're oversimplifying - and skewing things to agree with your argument. The crusades were murderous, bloody, vengeful and I'm sure terrifying - at the height of Christian adherance. And to extend this to other religions, which is your basic argument, if you steal in Saudi Arabia, you get your hand cut off, in the name of religion. If you commit adultery, you get stuffed in a bag and stoned to death. Still. Today. In the name of religion. And that's about the most controlled society on earth.

Please respond, because I hate it when truely religious people get on here, post something, and then disappear.

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