I have a question...

From Michelle

I was raised in a Christian home, and would still consider myself Christian. However, we never believed the Bible as the 'literal' Word of God (inspired doesn't mean literally true) or that millions of people would go to hell simply for not accepting Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

I do, however, have some fundamentalist Christian friends, and know that they pray for me to see the truth. I try very hard not to discuss the Bible with them, as it just tends to go in circles. I've read in some of the testimonials here that it's sometimes difficult to talk to fundamentalists/evangelicals, in that they're not quite listening because you're a lost soul, and thus what you say doesn't carry as much weight, due to not having the Holy Spirit. I can agree with that one, which is why I don't discuss the Bible or my beliefs with them.

But I do have a question for those of you on this website who had seriously studied the Bible, or might have been ex-ministers. I read somewhere that there are verses in the Bible that fundamentalists don't focus on, or dismiss/try and change the subject as soon as the verses are mentioned, or say that 'those verses don't really mean what they say.' Would anyone have a few examples of those verses? It would just be nice to have something on hand to make my friends think, whenver the Bible does come up.

On a side note, I also get incredibly frustrated when fundamentalists/evangelicals assume I haven't read the Bible simply because I disagree with their viewpoint. I've read the entire New Testament, and have studied the history of Christianity. Which is exactly why I don't agree with the fundamentalist/evangelical viewpoint. Consider that my rant. :)

Thanks in advance for your help.

16 comments:

Rich said...

As time passes and you wean yourself from religion you will realize that talking to "true believers" is a waste of time. You are approaching this from the rational standpoint. Good for you, it indicates growth. Fundamentalists are wrapped up in religion for emotional reasons. Logic will not sway them. The only way out is to reach young children before their minds are warped forever.

ken said...

I talk about a few such verses and passages on my blog:

Look at Lev 11:6,7, Lev 11:10-12, Lev 12:3, Lev 19:10, Lev 19:19, Lev 19:33, Lev 19:18 (These are talked about in the last post on the page I link to above.)

Also, I Corithians 11 talks about women covering their heads when they pray (which very very few Christian women do).

I Corinthians 5:12,13 tell Christians to NOT judge people outside the church! Show me the Christian obeying that verse!

But I also agree with rich. Talking to fundamentalists/evangelicals is often fruitless and always frustrating. They will always have reasons for what they do and don't do. They are never good reasons but they have them.

Michelle said...

Oh, I agree with the frustrating part. :) I never bring it up, but they sometimes do have questions for me.

It's almost morbidly fascinating, though. I often feel as though I suffer from an "Emperor's New Clothes" syndrome. I have no idea how otherwise intelligent people can take the Bible so literally. For instance, take Matthew 27:9-10. The writer says Jesus pulled the quote from Jeremiah, but the quote is actually from Zechariah 11-12.

I've also brought up the verses to them such as, "Just as in Adam all die, so shall in Christ all be made alive," but those of course don't mean what they actually say.

But thank you for your help.

Unknown said...

Visit www.evilbible.com. This site exposes Christianity in very easy to read passages and verses. Ask your Christian friends to justify these verses.

I am an ex-tithe giving Christian myself.

Jamie said...

I've also brought up the verses to them such as, "Just as in Adam all die, so shall in Christ all be made alive," but those of course don't mean what they actually say.


It's funny how so many Christians approach verses that suggest Universal Salvation. It always seems to be "It can't be true because -insert hell-fire verses here-".

And yet, they never suggest that the hell-fire verses can't be true because of the Univerasalist verses contradict them...

Unknown said...

Welcome Michelle,
I tend to agree with what everyone has said so far. I'll give you my twist as well. When people ask me, Do you believe in God? I like to take control of the discussion and ask them a few questions first. I ask do you believe in ufo's? why or why not? Bigfoot? why or why not? Chupacabra? why or why not?
I really don't care how they answer. If they don't believe in any of the above items,I simply answer their question that I don't believe in their God do to lack of supporting evidence. If they believe in some or all of the above items. I answer their question by saying their is more evidence of the above items then there is to a God.
Try it some time, It really shuts the door in their face.

Gary said...

In case you care to read some books about your search for some contradictory scriptures, here's a start that's helped me: Losing Faith in Faith by Dan Barker (ex-Evangelical Pastor);An Atheist Reads the Torah by Alan Perlman (a Jewish perspective);and lastly, The Dark Side by Valerie Tarico. I am especially grateful to Valerie's book and her answers to my personal emails about questions I've had. I highly recommend you read her book first before reading the others. I think you can still purchase her book through this website. Hope this helps.

pan-kun said...

There is a great story in Kings I think, someone will remember. A priest travels with his concubine but gives her up to be raped much like the story about Lot giving his daughters to be raped. Then when he tells her to get ready to leave discovers she is dead. He cuts her body into 12 portions and sends them to the corners of Israel. What the hell is that all about?

My other favourite is Balaam and his talking donkey. God tells him not to curse the Israelites but he does anyway. Somehow he had supernatural powers but God couldn't control him???? If God didn't want him to curse the Israelites why would it matter?

Michelle said...

Thank you, to everyone who commented. I'll be sure to check out the books recommended.

The sad thing is that I feel like I'm looking to start a fight, and I'm not. I'm just getting sick of the assumption from evangelicals that I haven't read the New Testament. I have -- which is why I disagree with most of the dogma.

**And yet, they never suggest that the hell-fire verses can't be true because of the Univerasalist verses contradict them... ** Well, what's the point if everyone can get there? ;)

**He cuts her body into 12 portions and sends them to the corners of Israel. What the hell is that all about?** I love how the response to this is always "Who are you to question God?" Ummm .. the same person who noticed that Jesus really hated hypocrites, which is exactly how God comes across in the Old Testament?

Telmi said...

Just visit this website:
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/int/long.html

It gives you examples of the intolerance found in the Bible; which all seem to point to an evil God.

Unknown said...

My favorite for the version that King James authorized is Genesis, Chapter 6 which begins "And it came to pass, when man began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughers were born unto them,

That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they choose.

And the LORD said, My Spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."

This is the first five verses which go on to explain how only one good man, Noah, was left on earth and you know the story of the Ark and flood.

Not only is it difficult for people to explain this text, the text is actually a left over reference to the "old religion".

It is the "sons of God" mentioned in the text that came to earth and had children with the daughters of men that make up the Gods of the "old religion" which the Roman Church attempted to wipe out of existance and memory. Yet here in the beginning of the King James Bible is a reference to the old religions "Demons" as they have been referred to.

I would also like to point out that the obsurdity of the Bible is not the fault of the messenger.

A simple human person like you and myself, who would acknowledged no authority other than "our father in heaven" in the face of Roman and Hebrew domination, was claiming his right to believe as he alone willed at the time. It was a brave, enlightened, and revolunionarily act that has had far ranging influence on individual freedom today.

This man called Jesus gave us the message that we do not have to go through anyone to speak to the highest authority. The fact that he felt this authority to be above the dominate religion and government got him killed quickly.

We can not hold this ill treated human responsible, however, for what has been written and done in his name. He was no friend of the Romans and ment no harm to his jewish heritage.

Yet for me, his message came through. I understand that Jesus was the inspiration of our enlightened founding fathers here in America by establishing our "rights and freedom" to be directly from God and not from any person, persons, document, government or religion. Our Constitution only documents that our individual and personal freedom comes from above everyting else.

My god given right to life, liberty, happiness and religion as I will is essential to me. I even expect a person who does not believe in god to respect my belief that my personal and individual freedom is from an authority that can not be interfered with. Even if this Nation no longer "trusts in god", I still insist in my god given rights...regardless of what I consider god to be.

I like the idea of being a "child of god (or the highest authority)". I like better the idea that we all are "children of god (or the highest authority)".

Religion becomes a politicial thing to me, not to impose on anyone, but for my personal protection.

That way I can actually believe what I will and, harm none, do as I will.

john

Unknown said...

Contradictive Theological doctrines: The last one is the best one.

Fundy Mental Lisps say you can't prove the bible god does not exist. The proof is in the pudding. Or is the bible god the author of confusion?

1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6

2. God dwells in chosen temples
2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples
Acts 7:48

3. God dwells in light
Tim 6:16
God dwells in darkness
1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2

4. God is seen and heard
Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
Ex 24:9-11
God is invisible and cannot be heard
John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16

5. God is tired and rests
Ex 31:17/ Jer 15:6
God is never tired and never rests
Is 40:28

6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all things
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8

7. God knows the hearts of men
Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
God tries men to find out what is in their heart
Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12

8. God is all powerful
Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
God is not all powerful
Judg 1:19

9. God is unchangeable
James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
God is changeable
Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
Ex 33:1,3,17,14

10. God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12

11. God is the author of evil
Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
God is not the author of evil
1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13

12. God gives freely to those who ask
James 1:5/ Luke 11:10
God withholds his blessings and prevents men from receiving them
John 12:40/ Josh 11:20/ Is 63:17

13. God is to be found by those who seek him
Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17
God is not to be found by those who seek him
Prov 1:28

14. God is warlike
Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15
God is peaceful
Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33

15. God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious
Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
God is kind, merciful, and good
James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/
1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8

16. God's anger is fierce and endures long
Num 32:13/ Num 25:4/ Jer 17:4
God's anger is slow and endures but for a minute
Ps 103:8/ Ps 30:5

17. God commands, approves of, and delights in burnt offerings,
sacrifices ,and holy days
Ex 29:36/ Lev 23:27/ Ex 29:18/ Lev 1:9
God disapproves of and has no pleasure in burnt offerings,
sacrifices, and holy days.
Jer 7:22/ Jer 6:20/ Ps 50:13,4/ Is 1:13,11,12

18. God accepts human sacrifices
2 Sam 21:8,9,14/ Gen 22:2/ Judg 11:30-32,34,38,39
God forbids human sacrifice
Deut 12:30,31

19. God tempts men
Gen 22:1/ 2 Sam 24:1/ Jer 20:7/ Matt 6:13
God tempts no man
James 1:13

20. God cannot lie
Heb 6:18
God lies by proxy; he sends forth lying spirits t deceive
2 Thes 2:11/ 1 Kings 22:23/ Ezek 14:9

21. Because of man's wickedness God destroys him
Gen 6:5,7
Because of man's wickedness God will not destroy him
Gen 8:21

22. God's attributes are revealed in his works.
Rom 1:20
God's attributes cannot be discovered
Job 11:7/ Is 40:28

23. There is but one God
Deut 6:4
There is a plurality of gods
Gen 1:26/ Gen 3:22/ Gen 18:1-3/ 1 John 5:7

Moral Precepts


24. Robbery commanded
Ex 3:21,22/ Ex 12:35,36
Robbery forbidden
Lev 19:13/ Ex 20:15

25. Lying approved and sanctioned
Josh 2:4-6/ James 2:25/ Ex 1:18-20/ 1 Kings 22:21,22
Lying forbidden
Ex 20:16/ Prov 12:22/ Rev 21:8

26. Hatred to the Edomite sanctioned
2 Kings 14:7,3
Hatred to the Edomite forbidden
Deut 23:7

27. Killing commanded
Ex 32:27
Killing forbidden
Ex 20:13

28. The blood-shedder must die
Gen 9:5,6
The blood-shedder must not die
Gen 4:15

29. The making of images forbidden
Ex 20:4
The making of images commanded
Ex 25:18,20

30. Slavery and oppression ordained
Gen 9:25/ Lev 25:45,46/ Joel 3:8
Slavery and oppression forbidden
Is 58:6/ Ex 22:21/ Ex 21:16/ Matt 23:10


31. Improvidence enjoyed
Matt 6:28,31,34/ Luke 6:30,35/ Luke 12:3
Improvidence condemned
1 Tim 5:8/ Prov 13:22

32. Anger approved
Eph 4:26
Anger disapproved
Eccl 7:9/ Prov 22:24/ James 1:20

33. Good works to be seen of men
Matt 5:16
Good works not to be seen of men
Matt 6:1

34. Judging of others forbidden
Matt 7:1,2
Judging of others approved
1 Cor 6:2-4/ 1 Cor 5:12

35. Christ taught non-resistance
Matt 5:39/ Matt 26:52
Christ taught and practiced physical resistance
Luke 22:36/ John 2:15

36. Christ warned his followers not to fear being killed
Luke 12:4
Christ himself avoided the Jews for fear of being killed
John 7:1

37. Public prayer sanctioned
1 Kings 8:22,54, 9:3
Public prayer disapproved
Matt 6:5,6

38. Importunity in prayer commended
Luke 18:5,7
Importunity in prayer condemned
Matt 6:7,8

39. The wearing of long hair by men sanctioned
Judg 13:5/ Num 6:5
The wearing of long hair by men condemned
1 Cor 11:14

40. Circumcision instituted
Gen 17:10
Circumcision condemned
Gal 5:2

41. The Sabbath instituted
Ex 20:8
The Sabbath repudiated
Is 1:13/ Rom 14:5/ Col 2:16


42. The Sabbath instituted because God rested on the seventh day
Ex 20:11
The Sabbath instituted because God brought the Israelites
out of Egypt
Deut 5:15

43. No work to be done on the Sabbath under penalty of death
Ex 31:15/ Num 15:32,36
Jesus Christ broke the Sabbath and justified his disciples in
the same
John 5:16/ Matt 12:1-3,5

44. Baptism commanded
Matt 28:19
Baptism not commanded
1 Cor 1:17,14

45. Every kind of animal allowed for food.
Gen 9:3/ 1 Cor 10:25/ Rom 14:14
Certain kinds of animals prohibited for food.
Deut 14:7,8

46. Taking of oaths sanctioned
Num 30:2/ Gen 21:23-24,31/ Gen 31:53/ Heb 6:13
Taking of oaths forbidden
Matt 5:34

47. Marriage approved
Gen 2:18/ Gen 1:28/ Matt 19:5/ Heb 13:4
Marriage disapproved
1 Cor 7:1/ 1 Cor 7:7,8

48. Freedom of divorce permitted
Deut 24:1/ Deut 21:10,11,14
Divorce restricted
Matt 5:32

49. Adultery forbidden
Ex 20:14/ Heb 13:4
Adultery allowed
Num 31:18/ Hos 1:2; 2:1-3

50. Marriage or cohabitation with a sister denounced
Deut 27:22/ Lev 20:17
Abraham married his sister and God blessed the union
Gen 20:11,12/ Gen 17:16

51. A man may marry his brother's widow
Deut 25:5
A man may not marry his brother's widow
Lev 20:21

52. Hatred to kindred enjoined
Luke 14:26
Hatred to kindred condemned
Eph 6:2/ Eph 5:25,29

53. Intoxicating beverages recommended
Prov 31:6,7/ 1 Tim 5:23/ Ps 104:15
Intoxicating beverages discountenanced
Prov 20:1/ Prov 23:31,32

54. It is our duty to obey our rulers, who are God's ministers
and punish evil doers only
Rom 13:1-3,6
It is not our duty to obey rulers, who sometimes punish the
good and receive unto themselves damnation therefor
Ex 1:17,20/ Dan 3:16,18/ Dan 6:9,7,10/ Acts 4:26,27/
Mark 12:38,39,40/ Luke 23:11,24,33,35

55. Women's rights denied
Gen 3:16/ 1 Tim 2:12/ 1 Cor 14:34/ 1 Pet 3:6
Women's rights affirmed
Judg 4:4,14,15/ Judg 5:7/ Acts 2:18/ Acts 21:9

56. Obedience to masters enjoined
Col 3:22,23/ 1 Pet 2:18
Obedience due to God only
Matt 4:10/ 1 Cor 7:23/ Matt 23:10

57. There is an unpardonable sin
Mark 3:29
There is not unpardonable sin
Acts 13:39

Historical Facts


58. Man was created after the other animals
Gen 1:25,26,27
Man was created before the other animals
Gen 2:18,19

59. Seed time and harvest were never to cease
Gen 8:22
Seed time and harvest did cease for seven years
Gen 41:54,56/ Gen 45:6

60. God hardened Pharaoh's heart
Ex 4:21/ Ed 9:12
Pharaoh hardened his own heart
Ex 8:15

61. All the cattle and horses in Egypt died
Ex 9:3,6/ 14:9
All the horses of Egypt did not die
Ex 14:9

62. Moses feared Pharaoh
Ex 2:14,15,23; 4:19
Moses did not fear Pharaoh
Heb 11:27

63. There died of the plague twenty-four thousand
Num 25:9
There died of the plague but twenty-three thousand
1 Cor 10:8

64. John the Baptist was Elias
Matt 11:14
John the Baptist was not Elias
John 1:21

65. The father of Joseph, Mary's husband was Jacob
Matt 1:16
The father of Mary's husband was Heli
Luke 3:23

66. The father of Salah was Arphaxad
Gen 11:12
The father of Salah was Cainan
Luke 3:35,36

67. There were fourteen generations from Abraham to David
Matt 1:17
There were but thirteen generations from Abraham to David
Matt 1:2-6

68. There were fourteen generations from the Babylonian captivity
to Christ.
Matt 1:17
There were but thirteen generations from the Babylonian
captivity to Christ
Matt 1:12-16

69. The infant Christ was taken into Egypt
Matt 2:14,15,19,21,23
The infant Christ was not taken into Egypt
Luke 2:22, 39

70. Christ was tempted in the wilderness
Mark 1:12,13
Christ was not tempted in the wilderness
John 2:1,2

71. Christ preached his first sermon on the mount
Matt 5:1,2
Christ preached his first sermon on the plain
Luke 6:17,20

72. John was in prison when Jesus went into Galilee
Mark 1:14
John was not in prison when Jesus went into Galilee
John 1:43/ John 3:22-24

73. Christ's disciples were commanded to go forth with a staff
and sandals
Mark 6:8,9
Christ's disciples were commanded to go forth with neither
staffs nor sandals.
Matt 10:9,10

74. A woman of Canaan besought Jesus
Matt 15:22
It was a Greek woman who besought Him
Mark 7:26

75. Two blind men besought Jesus
Matt 20:30
Only one blind man besought Him
Luke 18:35,38

76. Christ was crucified at the third hour
Mark 15:25
Christ was not crucified until the sixth hour
John 19:14,15

77. The two thieves reviled Christ.
Matt 27:44/ Mark 15:32
Only one of the thieves reviled Christ
Luke 23:39,40

78. Satan entered into Judas while at supper
John 13:27
Satan entered into him before the supper
Luke 22:3,4,7

79. Judas committed suicide by hanging
Matt 27:5
Judas did not hang himself, but died another way
Acts 1:18

80. The potter's field was purchased by Judas
Acts 1:18
The potter's field was purchased by the Chief Priests
Matt 27:6,7

81. There was but one woman who came to the sepulchre
John 20:1
There were two women who came to the sepulchre
Matt 28:1

82. There were three women who came to the sepulchre
Mark 16:1
There were more than three women who came to the sepulchre
Luke 24:10

83. It was at sunrise when they came to the sepulchre
Mark 16:2
It was some time before sunrise when they came.
John 20:1

84. There were two angels seen by the women at the sepulchre, and
they were standing up.
Luke 24:4
There was but one angel seen, and he was sitting down.
Matt 28:2,5

85. There were two angels seen within the sepulchre.
John 20:11,12
There was but one angel seen within the sepulchre
Mark 16:5

86. Christ was to be three days and three nights in the grave
Matt 12:40
Christ was but two days and two nights in the grave
Mark 15:25,42,44,45,46; 16:9>

87. Holy ghost bestowed at pentecost
Acts 1:8,5
Holy ghost bestowed before pentecost
John 20:22

88. The disciples were commanded immediately after the
resurrection to go into Galilee
Matt 28:10
The disciples were commanded immediately after the
resurrection to go tarry at Jerusalem
Luke 24:49

89. Jesus first appeared to the eleven disciples in a room at
Jerusalem
Luke 24:33,36,37/ John 20:19
Jesus first appeared to the eleven on a mountain in Galilee
Matt 28:16,17

90. Christ ascended from Mount Olivet
Acts 1:9,12
Christ ascended from Bethany
Luke 24:50,51

91. Paul's attendants heard the miraculous voice, and stood
speechless
Acts 9:7
Paul's attendants heard not the voice and were prostrate
Acts 26:14

92. Abraham departed to go into Canaan
Gen 12:5
Abraham went not knowing where
Heb 11:8

93. Abraham had two sons
Gal 4:22
Abraham had but one son
Heb 11:17


94. Keturah was Abraham's wife
Gen 25:1
Keturah was Abraham's concubine
1 Chron 1:32

95. Abraham begat a son when he was a hundred years old, by the
interposition of Providence
Gen 21:2/ Rom 4:19/ Heb 11:12
Abraham begat six children more after he was a hundred years
old without any interposition of providence
Gen 25:1,2

96. Jacob bought a sepulchre from Hamor
Josh 24:32
Abraham bought it of Hamor
Acts 7:16

97. God promised the land of Canaan to Abraham and his seed
forever
Gen 13:14,15,17; 17:8
Abraham and his seed never received the promised land
Acts 7:5/ Heb 11:9,13

98. Goliath was slain by Elhanan
2 Sam 21:19 *note, was changed in translation to be
correct. Original manuscript was incorrect>
The brother of Goliath was slain by Elhanan
1 Chron 20:5

99. Ahaziah began to reign in the twelfth year of Joram
2 Kings 8:25
Ahaziah began to reign in the eleventh year of Joram
2 Kings 9:29

100. Michal had no child
2 Sam 6:23
Michal had five children
2 Sam 21:8

101. David was tempted by the Lord to number Israel
2 Sam 24:1
David was tempted by Satan to number the people
1 Chron 21:1

102. The number of fighting men of Israel was 800,000; and of
Judah 500,000
2 Sam 24:9
The number of fighting men of Israel was 1,100,000; and of
Judah 470,000
1 Chron 21:5

103. David sinned in numbering the people
2 Sam 24:10
David never sinned, except in the matter of Uriah
1 Kings 15:5

104. One of the penalties of David's sin was seven years of
famine.
2 Sam 24:13
It was not seven years, but three years of famine
1 Chron 21:11,12

105. David took seven hundred horsemen
2 Sam 8:4
David took seven thousand horsemen
1 Chron 18:4

106. David bought a threshing floor for fifty shekels of silver
2 Sam 24:24
David bought the threshing floor for six hundred shekels of
gold
1 Chron 21:25

107. David's throne was to endure forever.
Ps 89:35-37
David's throne was cast down
Ps 89:44

Speculative Doctrines


108. Christ is equal with God
John 10:30/ Phil 2:5
Christ is not equal with God
John 14:28/ Matt 24:36

109. Jesus was all-powerful
Matt 28:18/ John 3:35
Jesus was not all-powerful
Mark 6:5

110. The law was superseded by the Christian dispensation
Luke 16:16/ Eph 2:15/ Rom 7:6
The law was not superseded by the Christian dispensation
Matt 5:17-19

111. Christ's mission was peace
Luke 2:13,14
Christ's mission was not peace
Matt 10:34

112. Christ received not testimony from man
John 5:33,34
Christ did receive testimony from man
John 15:27

113. Christ's witness of himself is true.
John 8:18,14
Christ's witness of himself is not true.
John 5:31


114. Christ laid down his life for his friends
John 15:13/ John 10:11
Christ laid down his life for his enemies
Rom 5:10

115. It was lawful for the Jews to put Christ to death
John 19:7
It was not lawful for the Jews to put Christ to death
John 18:31

116. Children are punished for the sins of the parents
Ex 20:5
Children are not punished for the sins of the parents
Ezek 18:20

117. Man is justified by faith alone
Rom 3:20/ Gal 2:16/ Gal 3:11,12/ Rom 4:2
Man is not justified by faith alone
James 2:21,24/ Rom 2:13

118. It is impossible to fall from grace
John 10:28/ Rom 8:38,39
It is possible to fall from grace
Ezek 18:24/ Heb 6:4-6, 2 Pet 2:20,21

119. No man is without sin
1 Kings 8:46/ Prov 20:9/ Eccl 7:20/ Rom 3:10
Christians are sinless
1 John 3: 9,6,8

120. There is to be a resurrection of the dead
1 Cor 15:52/ Rev 20:12,13/ Luke 20:37/ 1 Cor 15:16
There is to be no resurrection of the dead
Job 7:9/ Eccl 9:5/ Is 26:14

121. Reward and punishment to be bestowed in this world
Prov 11:31
Reward and punishment to be bestowed in the next world
Rev 20:12/ Matt 16:27/ 2 Cor 5:10

122. Annihilation the portion of all mankind
Job 3: 11,13-17,19-22/ Eccl 9:5,10/ Eccl 3:19,20
Endless misery the portion of all mankind
Matt 25:46/ Rev 20:10,15/ Rev 14:11/ Dan 12:2

123. The Earth is to be destroyed
2 Pet 3:10/ Heb 1:11/ Rev 20:11
The Earth is never to be destroyed
Ps 104:5/ Eccl 1:4

124. No evil shall happen to the godly
Prov 12:21/ 1 Pet 3:13
Evil does happen to the godly
Heb 12:6/ Job 2:3,7



125. Worldly good and prosperity are the lot of the godly
Prov 12:21/ Ps 37:28,32,33,37/ Ps 1:1,3/ Gen 39:2/
Job 42:12
Worldly misery and destitution the lot of the godly
Heb 11:37,38/ Rev 7:14/ 2 Tim 3:12/ Luke 21:17
126. Worldly prosperity a reward of righteousness and a blessing
Mark 10:29,30/ Ps 37:25/ Ps 112:1,3/ Job 22:23,24/
Prov 15:6
Worldly prosperity a curse and a bar to future reward
Luke 6:20,24/ Matt 6:19,21/ Luke 16:22/ Matt 19:24/
Luke 6:24

127. The Christian yoke is easy
Matt 11:28,29,30
The Christian yoke is not easy
John 16:33/ 2 Tim 3:12/ Heb 12:6,8
128. The fruit of God's spirit is love and gentleness
Gal 5:22
The fruit of God's spirit is vengeance and fury
Judg 15:14/ 1 Sam 18:10,11

129. Longevity enjoyed by the wicked
Job 21:7,8/ Ps 17:14/ Eccl 8:12/ Is 65:20
Longevity denied to the wicked
Eccl 8:13/ Ps 55:23/ Prov 10:27/ Job 36:14/ Eccl 7:17

130. Poverty a blessing
Luke 6:20,24/ Jams 2:5
Riches a blessing
Prov 10:15/ Job 22:23,24/ Job 42:12
Neither poverty nor riches a blessing
Prov 30:8,9

131. Wisdom a source of enjoyment
Prov 3:13,17
Wisdom a source of vexation, grief and sorrow
Eccl 1:17,18

132. A good name is a blessing
Eccl 7:1/ Prov 22:1
A good name is a curse
Luke 6:26

133. Laughter commended
Eccl 3:1,4/ Eccl 8:15
Laughter condemned
Luke 6:25/ Eccl 7:3,4

134. The rod of correction a remedy for foolishness
Prov 22:15
There is no remedy for foolishness
Prov 27:22


135. A fool should be answered according to his folly
Prov 26:5
A fool should not be answered according to his folly
Prov 26:4

136. Temptation to be desired
James 1:2
Temptation not to be desired
Matt 6:13

137. Prophecy is sure
2 Pet 1:19
Prophecy is not sure
Jer 18:7-10

138. Man's life was to be one hundred and twenty years
Gen 6:3/ Ps 90:10
Man's life is but seventy years
Ps 90:10

139. The fear of man was to be upon every beast
Gen 9:2
The fear of man is not upon the lion
Prov 30:30

140. Miracles a proof of divine mission
Matt 11:2-5/ John 3:2/ Ex 14:31
Miracles not a proof of divine mission
Ex 7:10-12/ Deut 13:1-3/ Luke 11:19

141. Moses was a very meek man
Num 12:3
Moses was a very cruel man
Num 31:15,17

142. Elijah went up to heaven
2 Kings 2:11
None but Christ ever ascended into heaven
John 3:13

143. All scripture is inspired
2 Tim 3:16
Some scripture is not inspired
1 Cor 7:6/ 1 Cor 7:12/ 2 Cor 11:17

eel_shepherd said...

In the field of cryptology, the only perfect cryptosystem is called the "One-Time Pad", where the plain text is matched bit-for-bit with a stream of random bits. It is perfect not because you can't get it to yield up this or that particular message, but because you can get it to yield up ANY AND EVERY MESSAGE YOU WANT, as long as it has the same number of bits as you have of ciphertext. The reason it's called a "One-Time" pad is that you can never use the same sequence of random bits to encrypt a second message, because all you'd have to do is perform the bitwise matching of the two pieces of ciphertext, and they will cough up the random bit-stream automatically.

Why the short bit of pedantry about One-Time Pad cryptology? Because the bible is basically a one-time pad. Whatever moral lessons it's suppose to barf up in all those infantile stories are 100% non-repeatable. Talk to any Xtian and ask which stories in the bible are to be taken as literal fact and which ones (or which parts of some or all of them) should be read as message-bearing fiction, and you'll get as many answers as people that you talk to. The information content is basically _zero_.

The Sun halts in the sky for several hours so that some guy & his army can win a daytime military battle? Oh definitely. This requires the Earth to have stopped rotating for that period, and I'm reliably informed that gravity tends to suck down on you extra-hard when y'take away the offsetting centrifugal force of a rotating Earth. You can see why it would take all those soldiers a bit longer to storm the city, what with their swords now weighing hundreds of pounds each, and all.

The bible stories contribute no more information than you lend to them from your own life; so the question immediately arises: Why not cut out the middle-man? The events that make up a person's OWN life are just as susceptible to the same sort of analysis as the stories in the bible, with the added virtue of being true...

Dee said...

I just read Dr. Valerie's letter.I have a few questions. Where does the work of Mother Theresa, Bread for the World, Habitat for Humanity fit into her assumptions that most Christians don't care about humans just the unborn. Also, does one need to be a Christian in order to see the value of the unborn? Are there any athiests out there who believe that a fetus is more than a lump of prepersonhood tissue?
D

webmdave said...

Dee,

Perhaps you should post your question under Dr. Valerie's letter so we would all know what you are talking about.

Anonymous said...

Hi Michelle,
I've got the answers for you by steps: 1)First ask them what denomination they are. 2) Then ask them to show you just one scripture in the bible that says to be that denomination within proper context such as "as a _______", "to be a ______", or "first called ______". 3) If they can't logically defend themselves, then tell them not to discuss religion with you as long as the name of their denomination is not in their bible within proper context.
If that don't shut 'em up up then try this one: 1) Ask them to show you just one scripture in their bible that says that church is a commercial building. 2) Then tell them "didn't Jesus call commerce in his "house of prayer" "a den of thieves"? 3) Then go on to mention that new testament believers had church in houses. Jesus had the first church service in a house(Luke 5: 19), The promised gift of the Holy Spirit was first given in the upper room of a house(Acts 2: 2) Paul the apostle who wrote the majority of the new testament had church in his house(Acts 28: 30-31). And Philemon 2 says "and to the church in thy house". 4) Lastly, tell them if they don't follow the new testament model, then what kind of a believer are they to tell you anything.
These two things should always hold them off bay as long as you keep throwing these 2 things back into their face everytime they sweat you. Never let them side track you with other issues. Just keep to these 2 things and keep telling them as long as they don't obey their own bible, they have no right to tell you anything. Remind them that they have to get the 2 by 4 out of their own eye before they can see the toothpick in your eye.

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