If you are right then you go to nothing. If I am right then you go to Heaven or HELL. You are playing Russian Roulette with Eternity. God will not allow your blasephemy to continue. Something will happen. Maybe you have already been judged and will not be allow to repent. This is the ultimate judgement to be cast on the sandbar of eternity without a means of repentance. I hope this has not happened to you. It may not be too late. Please repent and discontinue this rubbish. You may be granted mercy for your soul and grace in time of need. To be a rebrobate is to have a mind without GOD. It is apparent by you site that you are Rebrobate and possibly without hope. I am warning you with Love, so that your blood is not on my hands. Kill the site and live.
Tim Wilson
email:wilson@mail.com
These letters were published between January 2001 and February 2010. To view recent posts, go to The Main Blog at ExChristian.Net
43 comments:
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.... If this site offends you go read somewhere else. There are lots of christian sites where everyone thinks like you do. Go. There. Now.
Is that "A real witch" as apposed to say..A plastic witch...?
Lillith
ok so I am an idiot, this comment is for "I have the Answers Witch boy"
Lillith
You're playing the same dangerous game with respect to Zeus. . .he won't give you a second chance after death, you should repent from your reprobate christian ways.
Though on a serious note, you're the one playing games and wasting this precious, short life of yours by mindlessly following a cult.
OK Tim so let me get this straight. You are telling me I should give up everything that has taken most of my life to learn and just go on blind faith.
All that you have got is a book (man made), hearsay and probably the way your religion makes you feel (a feeling). Yes I am going to drop everything I am doing now and and run in fear.......NOT. I have lived in fear for much of my life and do not intend to live that way anymore. I thank you for your concern.
I could say soooo much much more but I will try and be nice.
I hope you have a nice time in "you" heaven.
Sorry, but in the whole grand scheme of things, your pathetic little "Pascal's-Wager-based" opinion means about as much to us as two squirts of piss. Bwa-ahahaa! Take it elsewhere - this is a site for people who have given up on Chrustianity. Cheers! -Wes.
http://www2.vip.net/~wemartin/bible
Well, as they say, igrorance is bliss. I wonder if you have pondered these serious questions: Is there a church in heaven? How about access to the internet, DVD players, computer games, all the things you think are worthwhile on planet earth. Is ther a "holier than thou" hierarchy with back stabbers competing for a seat near the "throne of heaven." Buzz off---you're wasting your time because WE THINK!
Don't forget to wear tin-foil on your head so the aliens don't read your thoughts! Don't forget to take your .45 with you when you go into the woods in case Bigfoot sneaks up behind you! Don't forget to have a camera with you in Vegas so you can snap a picture of the real Elvis!
Then again, I shouldn't even be comparing you to people like that. Why? Because at least those people TRY to be rational and scientific. UFO nuts, Bigfoot freaks, and Elvis lovers at least make an effort to make what they spout sound rational and scientific. Sure, many purported UFO pictures are obvious fakes...but they, at least, make an effort to provide physical proof. Bigfoot people, again, while having some pretty bad hoaxers, AT LEAST THEY MAKE AN EFFORT to be scientific. Elvis nuts are the same. Most of those in the three groups know people will laugh at them and think they're crazy. But, at least they make an effort to provide concrete proof...on the other hand, wackos like you just want us to close our minds and never think.
What amazes me is that UFO lovers and Bigfoot lovers are laughed at as nuts...while fundies like you get elected to high offices. Life existing elsewhere in the Universe or some animals like Bigfoot that humans have yet to discover isn't all that far fetched, and even plausible...while the Buy-Bull is a load of shit that a six year old in a coma can see through if he isn't brainwashed.
Hi Tim,
I gave my heart to Jesus in 1971 and know there is a God when I look up into the heavens and realize that there are billions of stars clustered in over a billion galaxies and on the outer edge of one of these spiral galaxies, named The Milky Way, is a rather insignificant planet named Earth and on that planet lives Lillith, Tim, blaine and a host of other people that God claims as His own and calls each one of us significant, including everyone on this site.
Before you damn them you ought to wonder what brought them here in the first place. Many of them don't hate God but they have no use for Bible God, as I call him, because of what the Bible says He is responsible for-the slaughter of entire cultures, the killing of women, children and babies. The kidnapping of virgins that were engaged to another man but Bible God told His people to go in and kill their fiancé and steal their espoused virgins. All others were to be shown no mercy. You mentioned hell-the Lake of Fire- a place where all those will go who do not repent and follow God. Even though God gave us a brain to think, we are condemned because our thoughts were not His thoughts, even though we were sincere and honest.
I will only speak for myself and every word is true.
Beginning in the 50s I spoke out against racial prejudice while I was in High School. When I became a Christian in 1971 every white church I attended did not want my black kids in their church. Later I pastored 3 churches[Baptist] and it was still the same. Two of them fired me because I preached that all of us are equal in God's eyes. I was rebuked by other preachers who used the Bible to prove their bigotry against the Black race. I worked with the Mafia, the syndicate, street kids [over 50% are gay youth who have been kicked out of their homes, and most of them had Christian families] and gang kids-my Crips, Bloods, Gangster Disciples, Vice Lords and Latin Kings. Not a one of these, my kids, mentioned above were truly and warmly welcomed in the churches I was a part of [including Assembly of God]. In 2004 I finally admitted to myself that I am gay, even though I am celibate and have been married 31 years to the most beautiful woman on Earth. I love her deeply but it is a love w/o sex.
God used the words of a Gangster Disciple, who surrendered his colors to me, to convict me of my need to accept myself as He made me. It was a wonderful moment and the shackles of religion, that damned so many, began to fall off. I now see the value, worth and significance in every human being and God's love for them. I no longer see a God who would take pleasure as His creation burned in agonizing flames for all eternity and the only sound they would hear would be their screams of agony.
Examine your Bible and write down every act of butchery committed by God or authorized by Him on one side of a piece of paper. And then on the other side write down the things that are supposed to define the character of God; such as, "Full of mercy", kind, love, forgiving, holy, compassionate, just and others.
Now see if the list on the one side substantiates the list on the other side of your paper.
I might also add that shortly after I came out God used me to prevent four youth from taking their life, one was as young as 12, and three were Christians who were terrified of what would happen to them if they were found out. They could not understand why the God, who they loved, hated them so much.
I would tell some of their stories on this and other sites-like the one boy who laid under his sheets for three or four weeks with his dad's rifle pointed in his mouth, or the one whose Christian mom told her 15 yr old son, "I hope you go to prison and get raped", or the youth who tried to hang himself and who later slit his throat because his Christian parents could not accept him as gay but sent him to two reparative therapy camps to make him straight, or the 16 yr old girl and her girl friend who tried to burn themselves to death. I could tell you many other stories of youth and adults who have been horribly hurt by the Christian church because they did not march lock-step with their doctrine.
What is "weird" is that every time I would tell my stories of my kids, the ONLY people who offered them kind and loving words were the atheists, agnostics, the humanists or the Wiccans. The only response from Christians was either silence or they would tell me, "It would have been better if you let these kids of yours kill themselves because they would have a better chance of making it to heave then if they grew up as gay". Another said, "If it were legal I would stone you and all your gay kids to death" and other Christians said I will burn twice as hot in hell because I love these gay youth as they are and I let them know that God loves them.
So Tim my friend, before you condemn the people here, without much thought, why not try to listen to their stories, their heart and their wisdom.
As a side note. In an evangelical magazine I recently got it said that by the year 2026 only 2.5%[two and one-half] of the worlds population would be Christian. All others would be lost. Today we have over 6 billion people on this planet and 20 years from now that number will be much higher.
So again I ask could a loving, compassionate and forgiving God send most of this planet's population to hell? You might reply, "The justice of God demands it". However, justice absent of love and forgiveness is nor justice but revenge.
To each of you here my friends please know that you are loved and that our God loves diversity.
Later,
blaine sloopy312@comcast.net
Are you Tim Wilson, the Nagigator? If so, you are one of the best comics around.
Don't fret too much about us apostates; just assume the Holy Spirit knows what he's doing.
To Blaine
WOW!!!!
If you were here I would hug you.
I wish you great things and much love.
Lillith
Ok idiot!
Post one thing that has become true in the Bible since it was written.
One thing!
With the exception of Israel becoming a Nation, which is no big friggin proshesy, and that we all die, nothing new there.
Ok post one thing that has come or become true, in the bible since it was written.
Just one thing!
I'm waiting.
1.
Now if you will go to my blog and read all of it, I will prove to you that the Bible is 100% false, if you do not go there and read it, I will consider you an reprobate.
Tim Wilson go to:
http://exchristian.net/testimonies/2006/07/breaking-last-bond-of-slavery.html
You braindead fool!
Here I'll post it for ya, I don't you are mentally capable to cut and paste.
Breaking The Last Bond of Slavery...
.: posted Saturday, July 15, 2006 ::: by .:webmaster:. ::: EmailThis! »
sent in by Shi
I don't even know where to start except to say that I am quite happy that I can see clearly now since my third eye has been restored. I no longer feel awkward, embarrassed, ashamed, uncomfortable, or guilty when I proudly and justifiable tell people that "No, I am not a believer in the program of Christianity and I don't go to church to take part in the distortion of God."
Of course most think I have lost my mind when I say this, but I don't disagree because I have lost the mind that they gave me without my permission. All my life, Christianity was all I knew. I was taught that to think or believe anything else was disrespectful and devious in God's eyes. I was also told that to fellowship with anyone who believed anything different from myself would be disruptive to my soul because such people were lost and unfavorable in God's view. Never once though did anyone bring up the fact that all the images that I would see of God and/or of Jesus never looked like me or the people in my community. They all had European features and such, which I thought was a bit odd because I couldn't help, but wonder would white folk have the same images up in their churches, home and sanctuaries, etc. of their oppressor and savior, and God and enslaver being of like nature?
Even if Blacks weren't the oppressors, I still wonder would white people proudly display a Black Jesus or God figure in their home, sanctuary, etc? The answer that I keep concluded was HELL No, because either consciously or subconsciously people know how powerful images are on the mind. This issue greatly disturbed me every time I'd witness this, which was and still is quite frequently. This didn't make sense to me, but as a good Christian girl, I thought something was wrong with me and not the program that I was made to believe. Attending college was the biggest eye opener for me because so many things had been introduced to me that none of my uneducated family members ever could have even pondered to explore with me, much less themselves.
I began to learn how the Europeans went into Africa spreading this poison called Christianity to subvert the minds of the masses in order to enslave them and in the interim, convince them that they were the savages, barbarians and hedonistic people who had no God consciousness, therefore they deserved to be enslaved. Although they had their own powerful way of relating to the creator, the psychopathology of Christianity seared in their minds for so long made them hate everything that was indicative of their homeland, especially their own religious practices. Learning that the first slave ship to this country was named "Jesus" disturbed me enough to the point that I stopped going to church immediately! I also learned how this religion has been spread all over the world essentially to have every culture's belief system in tuned and on one accord to the exaltation of the European race. As a psych minor, I learned how powerful images are on the mind in that once you start looking at your savior/God in human form with characteristics of the supposed "superior" race, one will naturally assume the role of being inferior and thus relate to that other race with undue reverence by default simply because they automatically mentally equate the "esteemed" race with God (excellent examples of brainwashing via the Christian art on this website).
It's not hard to see why my people are spiritually misaligned, which is mainly due to the pernicious doctrine that they were assigned to in this country in regards to their system of faith. Though my people are no longer in physically slavery, I've have learned why their minds are still in bondage which can be attributed to their inability to understand that their slave masters never ever intended to give them a spiritual system for their own personal benefit.
Christianity has been nothing more than a perpetual enslavement for Black people because of it's deep rooted history of white supremacy. I am proud to have learned about my history and the greatness of the ancient Egyptian spiritual system that is still evidenced today (Can't say that about any of the allegorical people of the bible). Among other mind blowing revelations, when I found out that this so called "Jesus" person had essentially the exact life story like the great ones such as Horus, Buddha, Krishna, and several other enlightened ones, but their stories predate "Jesus' " by hundreds (and some thousands) of years, I felt righteous indignation about being lied to all of my life, which has caused me to be on a mission to free every Black mind that I can from this false belief system that has done the most damage to the natural self perseverational instinct of a people. I am finding out that a lot of people don't wanna be free though. It's much easier, less threatening, and more accepting to suspend common sense and adhere to traditions than to be one who is not satisfied with being told what to think, but rather has an innate affinity to learn how to think.
I am honored to be a part of the vanguard of liberating the next generation from this twisted form of worship through the teachings that I employ with my child, nieces, nephews and others that encourage them to choose the path of learning the truth, researching information, questioning any and everything, and being more inclined to the authority of tangible evidence of Our- story instead of ascribing to the faith of HIS-tory.
I applaud you all for your fortitude and will to un-arrest your development! And for the record, I appreciate and respect all people (Black, White, Yellow, Brown), I just have a vested interest in my own people because of the current state of affairs that has misguided my people to self-destruct in spite of their greatness. ~~M.A.
"In order to understand the historical origins of Christianity, one dominant fact must be understood. This fact is that, to this day, there is no historical data or biography in existence to substantiate the life and times of a Jesus the Christ" ~~John L. McKenzie, S.J., Dictionary of the Bible p.432
Bible Belt
Georgia
USA
I was born into and assigned to this religion since my journey on the planet began
In my heart and soul, I never was a Christian, but I proudly came out of the closet in 2003. Yeah for me!!! : -)
Was: Santified Baptist, Holier than thou Methodist, Jesus Junkie Jehovah Witness
Now: I am in my right mind in that I am expressing my faith through my innate God gene
Converted because: I didn't have a choice in the matter because it was assigned to me through the forced transmission placed on my ancestors
De-converted because: Because my spirit would have it no other way
Tim, I believe in God. I just don't believe in biblegod or christianity.
By the way blaine, outstanding post! *Claps*
Actually I think your bible-god would be the one playing Russian Roulette - with his own beloved creation.
Isn't he the one who lit the eternal fires of hell?
Isn't he the one who gave freewill to humans?
Isn't he the one who created the Tempter, the Deceiver, and let him in with the naive and innocent Adam and Eve?
Isn't he the one who made salvation available only through hearing about some lone saviour, whose story needs to be spread manually thoughout the entire world to all 'those who have not heard'?
Isn't he the one who has made it so difficult and random for anybody to find the one true 'straight and narrow' path out of the confusing myriad of options, let alone outright deceptions, that are out there?
So why can't he just point the gun at his own head, and leave us all alone?
Ao much for a loving God there, Timbo me lad.
There again, perhaps having other Gods before the God of Abraham should be a Death Penalty offence... :) In fact, your Demon God doesn't just kill you, he then tortures you (in absentia) for all eternity. Nice guy... ever wonder why Moses racked up a body count as high a Hitler or Stalin? Probably not... those Midianites had it coming, and WTF were the Canaanites doing inthe Promised Land? Evidently something worthy of the order 'kill all who breathe'. Of course, you may say that Jesus wasn't involved but then that pisses on the idea of the Trinity.
BTW, you doing a Pilate doesn't absolve you of anything, you benighted offspring of Frank Oz' right arm...
We have a scared little boy here, that his mommy told him that the bible is true.
Who told you the bible is true, did an angel drop down from the sky and tell you the bible is true?
No! another human told you it was true and you were stupid enough to believe it.
Who do you think wrote the bible?
Was it a god or jesus? No! it was humans.
Neither god nor jesus never wrote any part of the bible.
How come their names, god or jesus are not mentioned at the top of the chapters?
Because they never wrote any part of the bible, it was written by scared people just like you.
Allah has a hell waiting for you Tim, you better wash and pray 5 times a day or you will be eaten by Satan's dogs.
Now, I know I'm fairly new to this site but even I have to say that this sort of post is getting boring beyond belief.
I could offer a fearsome rebuttal but, to be honest and in the Anglo-Saxon vernacular, I can't be arsed! Besides, I don't really want to waste pixels on it.
What say we insist on proof of these individuals' credentials? So we know we are dealing with intelligent, reasoning people who's life-experience doesn't consist of Bible study, homework and their nightly wet-dream (for which they must repent each morning). Just a thought. But then I guess if he was intelligent and reasoning then he wouldn't be spouting such unmittigated crap.
SwissMiss
To Blaine:
I've sent you a little email, hope you don't mind.
Hugs SwissMiss x
Tim, your post is so ludicrous it actually leaves me doubtful that you are serious. C'mon, now Tim, are you spoofing? Don't be afraid, admit it. We all enjoy a laugh.
Blaine, I salute you. If Jesus christ were by some chance a real entity, and came to earth, you would I think be one of the first ones he would want to shake hands with, and maybe even buy you a drink. You are good and true, and you, not the xian world, are an inspiration.
I am normally a very nice person and won't begrudge a person their own beliefs, no matter how I may disagree with them. But, for the record, YOU ARE AN IDIOT!
People like you made my life hell when I was a kid! People like you are the reason I started to question Christianity and provided the catalyst for me to leave. People like you are a bane on this world! People like you make me wish they'd start feeding Christians to the lions again! (Which, btw, wasn't as common as they'd like you to believe.)
You obviously don't know how to read or you'd know why we've left and why most of us won't be coming back. You'd know that our eyes are open and will never again be closed. And, you know what? I'd rather spend an eternity in hell with people I love and respect than languish in heaven with jerks like you and your evil psychopath of a deity!
Of all the vomitus that spews forth from the mouth of xian fanatics, the appeal to join their cult or else burn in hell is undoubtedly the one least likely to convert any one with the ability to think rationally. This appeal is based solely on fear - not on the love of god, nor the righteousness of his word or any of the over positive messages that might possibly attract adherents.
But, OK, I'll play along. Given that the fear factor seems to be the most important aspect of christianity to Tim, as well as to Pascal, would it not be wiser for the wagering man or woman to choose his or her religion based entirely on which one has the most horrible hell? That would yield the bigger pay-off, assuming the cultist is correct.
Timmy: If one single thing you wrote is a statement of fact, all you have to do is prove that fact. If you can't then your statements are merely statements of inference based on your weak opinions of yourself and your religion. Prove one thing you wrote...but we know, you can't because your inferences are based on lies and myths.
and what if youre religion/relationship is a lie? then youre the one that goes to hell and not us. think about that for once!
as the atheist said if God relaly is loving isnt it better to live life as if there were no gods and be as kind as you can if god is truly loving he will reward you by deeds and not whether you wosrhipped his ego or not.
Hi Tim,
I hope you have read our replies. I tried your e-mail and it is non-existent.
Below is a post from a friend of mine who has a website called http://www.thegodmurders.com.
I hope you think about what Gary has said.
A bold, "converted" Christian tries to save a "free-will" soul...
Cutting to the chase:
Christianity is a constant war between "assumed authority" and stand-up "free-will". Christianity consists of and projects self-assumed, converted and superior wills that imperialistically and aggressively wage war on what they consider to be evil, free wills.
Christian: Hi! I am a Christian. You are a sinner. My job is to convert you to Christianity and to break your evil, sinful will so that the Holy Spirit can take you over and restrict you to the sacred service of Almighty God. God owns your soul. You do not own your soul. It is His. God created your soul for His pleasure and He can do what He wants with it. You are to repent and change your mind from serving yourself to serving God right now - so that you shall be "saved" to serve God for eternity. You are not being saved for you. Your salvation is not for your benefit. You are being saved for God's pleasure and to serve God for eternity. You shall sacrifice your "free will". You shall yield and subordinate yourself to God’s sacred will - which is also my "converted" will - and you shall humbly convert to become a practicing Christian. I am a practicing Christian. I represent God’s will. If you serve God well during your lifetime, then God shall judge you. If God accepts you based on your works, your repentance and your love, only then may God choose you to serve Him - on His terms - for eternity. If you do not break your stubborn, disobedient, sinful will and serve God - on His terms - you shall suffer a billion times more than you can endure each second for eternity.
I, as a Christian, wage war on sin. Your "sin" is without the consent of God. If your “free will” does change and you do choose to serve God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, I would have righteously broken and converted your sinful will. To convert to Christianity, your old, sinful self must die - to be "born again" and to become new in the Spirit to serve and love God forever. If you disobey me, in God’s stead, I shall correct you as much as I can and repeatedly threaten eternal-damnation for your soul. If I successfully break your will and convert you, you are then to wage war on "sin" and break the wills of others so to convert them and save their souls. You are to be tireless at this and do it until God calls you into His loving arms. You are to sacrifice who you think you are and become what Jesus Christ wants you to be. Once I break your will to my converted will and God's will and you repent, I shall then supervise how you are to live. Once you become responsive to me, you will obey me as you would God. You shall pressure others who display "free will" as you find them and supervise those who lose their own "free will" and who are receptive and obedient to your new crusade against evil.
Gary DeVaney: Hi, Mr. Christian. So, if you are a Christian and if I am not, do you consider yourself superior to me?
Christian: In the eyes of God - yes. Anyone God chooses to serve Him is superior to the rest.
Gary: Are you waging war against me to break my will?
Christian: Yes! I wage war against Satan - and you are his vessel. Satan dwells within you. I shall drive Satan out of you so that Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit can live through you. You and your sinful nature are to sacrifice yourself and die to the World and be “born again” as a Christian.
Gary: Is this authoritative agenda you just described what has caused so much abuse, murder and war throughout all of history?
Christian: No! We are Christians and we love peace.
Gary: Yes. You Christians love peace - on your terms. In war, a human being, who assumes authority, sacrifices people, whom he assumes authority over, to kill other people. This human "assumed authority" actually sacrifices his own people in his quest to kill others. He kills them - so to break their will - to force them to surrender to his authority - to obey his will and to serve his agendas.
Christian: Yes. And rightfully so! Praise Jesus! A Christian, God-fearing Country must break evil soul's stubborn wills - to occupy, enslave and, if necessary, torture or destroy them all. If you do not surrender your will for God to occupy and use for His pleasure, God will torture and punish you, not only now, but for eternity. My mission is to break your will and convert you so to save your sinful soul from Hell-Fire and Eternal-Damnation. You shall yield and subordinate yourself to my - and God's will. As a Christian, my Kingdom in Heaven is assured by your conversion and your sacrifice.
Gary: So, you insist that I lose my happy life - as I know it - and sacrifice my "free-will" and fearfully serve God and pray that I am saved and that I satisfy God's pleasure properly - so He will judge me - and then I can serve for God's pleasure throughout the eternity?
Christian: Yes. Isn’t it wonderful? Praise God! By the way, you are not happy. True happiness is serving God.
Gary: For your information, I feel that I have been happy for the past 30 years. I have a clear conscience that I am a good human being. I do not hurt people and I have never killed anyone or spent a night in jail.
Christian: You hurt and abuse us Christians by not obeying us and God. You are not serving God like a good Christian should. You must obey all of the Bible's 613 Old Testament commandments no matter how your feel about them and if you die trying, God will reward you.
Gary: But, don’t God’s commandments include killing gay men, disobedient sons, and priest’s daughters who are not virgins. Should I kill them?
Christian: That sacred obligation is between you and God. You are to be like Jesus and sacrifice your life for God.
Gary: But, Jesus didn’t kill gay men, disobedient sons and non-virgin girls.
Christian: Praise Jesus! Thank you, Jesus, for suffering and dying on the cross for me! Jesus had His Own cross to bear. You have yours.
Gary: Do you realize, Mr. Christian, that what you are demanding is what causes war?
Christian: God requires war to break the wills of the sinful. It's so simple. God wants sacrifice so that He knows who He can trust to serve Him for eternity. God demands peace - on His terms! If God’s commandments, statutes, ordinances and laws are not obeyed - on God’s terms - mankind gets no peace.
Gary: So, is religion, by constantly warring with the wills that don't serve God on His terms, responsible for why mankind treats man so cruelly?
Christian: Yes. Mankind is sinful and war is necessary to break the will of evil so God can have His way. God is God! And God deserves to have things His way.
Gary: Do you think if Christians knew about this agenda of "waging war on wills" - they would still love God?
Christian: Absolutely. Shut up! Stop talking, stupid! You are making me mad.
Gary: Mr. Christian, I propose that you and I make a deal. Ok?
Christian: Ok. What's the deal?
Gary: The deal is: You don't talk down to me - and I don't punch you out.
Christian: But, Christians are God-fearing. God has feelings and feels that the intensity of a Christian's love and fear is important to Him - so God can know who to choose to serve Him for eternity on judgment day. If you do not break and bend your will to the will of God, He will destroy you.
Gary: I'm sorry Mr. Christian, but I can not love or serve the God you describe.
Christian. Well, It's simple then. You are going to Hell! I am here to give you a realistic taste, based on the Bible, of what God expects of you and what consequences you will face if you don’t bend your will and convert. You are to love God with all your heart. Be like us - or else.
Gary: Powerful men throughout history have attacked and killed nations to break their will. Those, of the destroyed nations who survived, then had to obey and serve their conquers' agendas. It is a constant recycle of murder, misery and tyranny throughout history. In the Old Testament Bible, God’s “chosen people" constantly murdered nations who were not God’s “chosen” - so to steal their land. Sometimes, God's "chosen people" could not get along and waged war upon themselves - God's Own "chosen". When God's "chosen" lost battles or were not totally obedient, angry God turned on them and destroyed them or He arranged for an enemy to put them into captivity and slavery.
Christian: God owns this Earth and everything on it. It is all God’s land to give it to whom He chooses. All lives and souls are God's to take when and as He wishes. If you are willfully disobedient, God will turn on you and destroy you too. As with Jesus Christ's wonderful sacrifice, God had it all pre-planned and God was in control. Yes, God does destroy all those who don’t totally obey Him. You'd best repent for your sins and disobedience. President George W. Bush, who God has appointed over the people of the United States of America, is making current history by waging war and defeating evil empires. The more sacrifices that are made, the more God documents in "the book of life" who is suitable to serve Him for eternity. God loves the intensity when souls sacrifice in serving His authority.
Gary: Is paradise as wonderful as Christians project?
Christian: Of course it is. Yes, there was war in Heaven, but God loves you. You just make sure you are fit to be judged properly. Stop thinking about yourself and do everything you can to pleasure God. That’s your one and only job. God is not going to be happy with you if you don’t break others wills as I have broken yours. Convert, fear God, repent, get baptized, pay generous tithes, sacrifice, do good works, believe, have faith - and God may select you to serve Him for eternity.
Gary: Will I have "free will" in Heaven?
Christian: Certainly not! You are tested by how you serve God on Earth. That determines whether or not you make it into Heaven. God does not change. What suits God on Earth suits Him in Heaven. God's will is to be done on Earth as it is in Heaven. Are you delusional enough to think that God would give you something in Heaven that He would not allow you during your lifetime on Earth?
Gary: So, what is so good for me in Heaven?
Christian: Two things come to my mind. You shall have the privilege to serve God - on His terms - for eternity; and, you are not suffering eternal-torment in Hell. That is a sweet deal, if you notice.
Gary: If I did agree to God’s and my current Government’s imperialistic agenda, would I be expected to kill people?
Christian: Yes. If you are a proper Christian, you will soldier, serve, crusade, obey and sacrifice for your God and for the President that God appoints to be over you. That President is doing God's will. If God, or your President, requires you to do some killing - you are a slave to God and to your President. You are to subordinate your will and you are to serve your masters' wills to your death.
Gary: Mr. Christian, is God’s Judeo-Christian-Islamic dogma directly or indirectly responsible for all the wars - and all the suffering and pain that humanity has experienced within Biblical documentation and real recorded history?
Christian: God is in charge. God does not change. God wants sacrifices. God wants you to love him. Worship and pray to Him. God hears you! When you love God - it makes His day.
Gary: What? God wants sacrifices? God wants you to be a slave to His and your country's leader's will and agendas? That does not sound good, just and fair. That sounds a lot like tyranny and evil blackmail to me - in my value system.
Christian: Blasphemer! There is only one value system and that is God's! You need to be taken behind the woodshed and corrected. God is good, fair, just and if you don’t break your stubborn will and convert, God will toss you into Hell forever.
Gary: Well, Mr. Christian, let me look you square in the eye and tell you that you will not break my will. I have no interest in serving you or your Judeo-Christian-Islamic God - or a President who attacks defenseless countries in order to fulfill his administration's imperialistic, corporate interests.
Christian: Our Christian God is not the same as Allah!
Gary: Read selections of your own Bible and of the Koran. The "God Character" - real or fictional - Islam's Allah or the Judeo-Christian God - is the same God of Abraham.
Christian: Blasphemer! Satan is in you.
Sir Christian, you shalt not convert my soul any more than your fictitious God has any say over my will.
Praise God! You are going to Hell! I shall no longer cast my pearls before swine.
Exit…
I'm Gary DeVaney. I am a realist, a humanist and an atheist - as I have no evidence of any God. Do most practicing Christians imperialistically wage war on those of us who live by "free will"? If Christians are constantly waging war, by virtue of the Biblical God's documented doctrine, is it any wonder that heads of countries also wage God-backed "might makes right" war on who they can? By documented evidence - for those who are not too mind-set to see - the Biblical God is not a good God and the Bible is not a good model for humanity. It is obvious that the Biblical God Character - fictional or not - is mainly responsible for why mankind treats man so cruelly.
Wow Blaine, a very good entry on that. Very typical of brain-dead fundies. I'd much rather burn for all eternity than kiss the ass of the evil, muderous, egotistical, asshole, psychotic Biblegod.
If was making a movie about Biblegod and had to pick an actor, I'd have either Christopher Walken or Jack Nicholson play Biblegod...both of those actors are very good at playing an over-the-top, psychotic character.
Sorry Blaine you waisted so much of your valuable time talking to that lunatic.
If there exist a god who judges people based upon what people's brain believes, this type of thinking is just plain ludicrous.
What if you were judged by the type of candy that you enjoy, like M&M;s or Baby Ruth, depending on what brand of candy you enjoy best, will depend on whether you will spend eternity in Heaven or Hell, same freaking principle.
This would justify the thinking of a bunch of lunatic's 2000 years ago.
For some reason, people want an excuse to judge others, it takes the spotlight off of them, being a christian, gives them a license (they like to think) to judge others and everyone except themselves. That lunatic had already placed himself in Heaven and already placed you into Hell.
It will take volumes and volumes of logic to undo the volumes and volumes of brainwashing that the bible has done to people, they've had over two thousand years to perfect their brainwashing, when we only have a short period of time on Earth to try to undo their bullshit.
The only solution is when a fundy constanly repeats all their cliche's over and over for years and then one day it finally hits them, they will say to themselves, what the hell is wrong with me? What the hell was I thinking? What have I been doing? How could I have been so freaking stupid?
That's the only way it will work, through self discovery, they have to see it for themselves and then, only if they will allow it.
For some reason people think that they have to hide behind a facade, I'm sure it comes from the fear of their fathers when they were little children, fear of being spanked or punished, the bible was written totally based on fear of the father, then converted to fear of the invisible heavenly father and he will also spank you or punish you, the supreme father figure.
People that allow themselves to believe such nonsense, are not mentally stable.
Thanks for sharing Blaine, Ben
Tim, the christian hell is one of the many reasons why I do not believe in christianity, thank you very much. Why would you believe in such a thing? Is it because it is necessary for God to have created a place for non-christians? Is it because you have had fear struck into you by the church? Are you afraid of "eternal torment" and running to Jesus? That is what the church wants you to do. You cannot prove the existence of hell, yet you believe in such an absurd thing? I wonder why. Is it for the sake of your "free ride to heaven" on the blood of Jesus?
Do you realize that your doctrine of salvation by grace is a new testament doctrine? What do you make of the gospels? Don't you see that "Jesus saves" is not what Jesus taught? How do you explain this? Perhaps humankind distorted the teachings of Christ. Have you ever considered that? What do you suppose Christ meant when he said "If thine eye be single thy whole body shall be full of light?" How about "whosoever keepeth my saying shall never see death?" How about "choose not the way that leads to death, choose the way that leads to life eternal?" What do you make of the condemnation of John 3:19, or Luke 9:22-9:29? Why would Christ say these things? How would one correlate them with the doctrine of salvation by grace?
Consider the doctrine of salvation by grace. We are all born into "sin," because Adam and Eve ate a piece of fruit. Being born into sin in a "fallen state," we are already destined for eternal torment, then, being in a "fallen state" and having "forgotten from whence we have fallen," i.e., the "joy of the spirit," we are naurally drawn toward the "pleasures of the flesh," and "driven by the hunger in our bellies," we commit such deeds as "fornication," which is generally thought to mean sex without marriage, and we fight, steal, cheat, and kill for land and food, being part of the food chain. All these things piss God off, and for these things and because Adam and Eve gained "knowledge of good and evil," we will all be "cast into hell" when we die. For four thousand years, everybody went to hell, then God sent Jesus, his "only begotten Son," who somehow is yet is not God, to die a horrible death on a cross, which pleases God, who then allows into heaven aybody who will "accept Jesus," and it is vague as to exactly what the means. Somehow, the death on the cross assures entry into heaven, yet it is "accepting Jesus" which assures entry into heaven. Huh? First John 2:2 tells us that Christ died for the whole world! Huh? Anyway,that is the doctrine of "salvation by grace." Why do you believe such a thing? Do you honestly believe it? Why? It is absurd.
I await your response.
I don't kill my children just because they don't do what I want. Therefore, I am a better and more moral person than your God.
I forgive people who purposely turn away from me and try to hurt me. Therefore, I am a better and more compassionate person than your God.
I understand that when people make bad choices, they are doing so because of personal issues they need to deal with, and those choices are punishment enough without me making it worse. Therefore, I am a better and more merciful person than your God.
In the choice between your God and hell...what's the difference?
He He He fundies are so predictable.
Yeah Tim, more of the same convert or die bloodthirstiness that has been shoved at people from the beginning.
I fell for this hypocritical garbage once, but not again.
Christianity is nonsense.
...so our blood won't be on your hands. That's the only thing your little screed is about, fear of what your god will do to you, NOT for what you think may happen to us. Now go prostrate yourself before your deity and tell him what a good little drone you've been.
Pascal's Wager? That's the best you can come up with to try and scare us with your hocus-pocus delusions?
Thanks for the reminder on how much better it is to think for myself. I hope you know the same joy someday.
Hi folks, this is a copy of the email I sent the fundie who posted, since he was kind enough to leave his email address. I apologize for the length, but I like to be thorough.
Hello Tim, I was viewing the "anti-testimonies" of the website "www.exchristian.net" and came across your comment about the site. If you are willing to discuss this rationally, I would like to respond point by point the things you said, and correct you on a few things.
You said : "If you are right then you go to nothing. If I am right then you go to Heaven or HELL. You are playing Russian Roulette with Eternity."
My reply : This is a popular apologist argument known as "Pascal's wager". Don't forget, this wager you present is only giving 2 options (believe in your specific version of christianity vs. not believing it). However, it is flawed because you are forgetting that there are over 8,000 gods which are currently worshipped in dozens of religions world wide. And on top of that, let's assume christianity is the "true" religion. You are still far from "getting to heaven", because there are over 30,000 christian denominations who have their own version of the "gospel" and "Jesus". So, you would have to get the correct version of Jesus. Think that is enough? Also remember, that once you pick the "correct" version of the sadistic saviour, the bible still says the odds of "getting to heaven" are so astronomical, it is almost a worthless effort on the part of the believer like yourself. Matthew 7:21-23 clearly says most who are believers of the actual correct version of Jesus will still not get to heaven, even though they believe in Jesus as Lord, they live a good christian life and do wonderful works. So, it appears, if you wish to be accurate, the odds of your "wager" being the only wager available are about a million to one. Not such good odds.
Also, don't forget, if Islam is true and you are wrong, then you will have EVERYTHING to lose, since you will burn in hell next to the atheist. And what is even more interesting is that the hell of Islam is actually WORSE than the hell of christianity. So, if you want to be "safe", then choose the religion which has the worst version of hell (because then you would only go to the lighter version of hell if that religion is wrong). Also, you are broadbrushing everyone who comes to exchristian.net's website. Not all ex-christians are atheists or agnostics. Some are pagans, witches, buddhists. So, to assume that all ex-christians are in the same religious or non-religious category is a bigoted argument. Certainly if one of us said "All Christians are child molesters" would be a vicious attack on all christians, when in reality only a percentage of christians enjoy giving kids the old one eye.
Another point is that you claim if you are right, people go to heaven or hell. The problem is that "hell" is nowhere found in the original language of the bible (hebrew, aramaic or greek). Hell was inserted much later by state sponsored church leaders who translated the bible into English. For more info on what "hell" actually is, please check out the CHRISTIAN website...www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com . See, here is the dilemma. If there is no original sin (which contradicts the doctrine of free will), and there is no "hell" (which there clearly is not in the original language of the bible), then there is no need for a saviour. And you can't have that, can you?
One last point in this is that you call it "Russian Roulette with Eternity". However, where is all your evidence of "eternity" to which you expect us to be scared by? And once you provide evidence, how do you know that we are playing Russian Roulette with it? If it is all a matter of chance, then you should not believe gambling is a sin. Especially if your god does such gambling with people's eternities. Unless of course you believe we have power over eternity (are you suggesting we have more power than the god you worship?)
You said : "God will not allow your blasephemy to continue. Something will happen. Maybe you have already been judged and will not be allow to repent. This is the ultimate judgement to be cast on the sandbar of eternity without a means of repentance."
My reply : To suggest that "God" will not allow their blasphemy to continue is a shallow remark on several levels. Apparently, they have been receiving anti-testimonies since 2002. So, we can know the site has been running for at least 4 years. Yet, your "god" still has yet to stop or slow down its popularity. Secondly, how do you define "blasphemy"? If your god doesn't want them to have this site up and your god is all powerful, then how can you explain the lack of stopping it from "blaspheming" your god? And what is even more interesting is, your first statement is that WE have power over eternity (since you claimed we are playing Russian Roulette with Eternity). Then you turn around in your second statement by claiming your god has the power over eternity. Which is it? I wish christians like yourself would make up your mind regarding who has the power over eternal destinies. And what you are saying about your "loving" god is that such a god doesn't know what love is whatsoever. Making your bogus threats which have no validity (since this website is growing and your god hasn't seemed too concerned to stop it). I find it interesting you say in order to go to the correct eternity, one has to "repent". Yet, there are people who never repented who Jesus forgave. He forgave the soldiers who were crucifying him (Luke 23:34). They kept on killing him, yet he forgave them anyway. So, if Jesus would forgive the very people who killed him and those people didn't repent, then certainly Jesus (if he existed) would forgive people who never killed him and who never repented. Also, if you say "well, he forgave them, but if they didn't repent, they wouldn't go to heaven", then that means when Jesus forgives people, they are not REALLY forgiven and therefore, he was a fraud. So, you are in a dilemma of a cosmic nature.
You said : " I hope this has not happened to you. It may not be too late. Please repent and discontinue this rubbish. You may be granted mercy for your soul and grace in time of need. To be a rebrobate is to have a mind without GOD. It is apparent by you site that you are Rebrobate and possibly without hope. I am warning you with Love, so that your blood is not on my hands. Kill the site and live."
My reply : This is typical fundamentalist rhetoric which has no validity or proof for any of it. You assume that it will be "too late" for people who simply expose christianity for the blood cult it is. And you have not proven how anything on the site is "rubbish". Apparently you have not read the vast number of anti-testimonies which clearly prove christianity is a bad idea. Would you be convinced of christianity's dangerous ideas with the fact that millions have suffered and died at the hands of "loving" christians? Christianity has had 2000 years to get its act straight and to make the world a better place and it did just the opposite. What do you do with an idea that constantly harms people and fails at its supposed goals after 2000 years? Do you keep suggesting it is "God's plan" for the horror, or do you honestly admit christianity is a crock since it began?
I suggest you ask yourself if your "god" is so powerful, so loving and so knowledgable, why doesn't he stop these "blasphemous" websites? Put up or shut up. I suggest since you probably believe in prayer, you pray to Jesus to stop the website. I will pay you $100 if your prayers stop the website through supernatural means (computer hackers don't count). Certainly Jesus could use the money by you giving it to your church. In fact, it would be like a "double blessing". Not only would God stop these horrible "heathens" from spreading their blasphemous logic, you could give money to your church so it can spread the message of christianity further. Let's see if your prayers really work, okay?
Until then, grow the fuck up,
Matt
Just so you know, the email address "Tim" left is bogus, just got my email back as non-sendable.
Has anybody heard from Tim the Terrorist? Or was this a drive-by?
Good post, Matthew. I haven't gone to your site on what the hell is hell, but did you discuss how the concept came from the burning garbage in the valley of Gehenna?
Well as luck would have it, I have just been informed that God has shut down Tim's email address. God is furious with Tim's proselytizing in the name of ignorance and absurditity.
It's looks like Timmy is one of those drive by fundies, came along and dropped a load of guano, got his jebus brownie points and flew away, sounds like the doo doo bird to me.
Anyway, Tim come back and pray for us some more, it seems that first barrage of prayer shit didn't work, I didn't feel a damned thing!
Maybe you prayed to the wrong god, maybe you've been playing Russian Roulette with the wrong god, could it be that you are in hell now, sent there by Allah?
If so, let us know which hell you're in, so we can avoid the one you're in, since you're so concerned with our destiny.
In the mean time, we will be praying for you that you did not go to the wrong hell, but I'm afraid you waited too long and it's too late now, so now you're stuck in Allah's hell and you will burn for ever, and now all we can do is watch you burn, because we chose not to believe, therefore we have nowhere to go, which is much better than where you are right now.
We'll send you a drop of water to place on your tongue, to comfort you on your torment for all eternity!
Seems like you worshipped the wrong god, a big fatal mistake, but it's out of our hands now, because we chose not to believe in your stupid ignorant nonsense.
I hope you took plenty of suntan lotion with you, because you are going to need it for all eternity.
That was a warning made with love? What a joke. I'd hate to see what a hateful warning would be
I prefer Blaise Pascal when commenting on religious thought
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
Congratulations, Tim, you just became the 10 billionth person to try to convince - well, probably yourself - of the truth of your delusion by using some variation of Pascal's Wager! Johnny, tell Tim what he's won!
Seriously, have you ever considered the possiblity that God, if she exists, is so enraged that you would lower religious belief down to the same level as placing a $2 bet at a horse race, that she'll send you to Hell for doing so? After all, your Bible says god gets mad over just about everything else we ever did or said, so she certainly would over that.
And it really bothers you that I use the female pronoun for your god, doesn't it? Now, why is that?
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