a Born Atheist

I have just stumbled onto this site - praise the lord! - and am jumping right in before I go back and read any more testimonials. Christianity is making me sick, literally. I was born into atheism, so I already have a foundation of non-religiosity, and I am finding my christian friends' attempts to convert/preach to me and so on make me queasy and extraordinarilly uncomfortable. Having never "believed" in anything other than reality I did not have any lights going off or personal "aha's!", so their prostelytizing puts me at a disadvantage. They're so sure! And I'm so mellow! And they're intelligent, loving beings! I sought this site out because I feel so alone when Christians come after me. "Naomi, do you follow your lord?" and when I aver to avoid an argument, especially with my deeply devout Caribbean friend, she laughs and says, "that's not a direct answer!" Which leaves me with nothing to say! Arguing with a Christian is like holding a mossy rock in a stream! If anyone has suggestions I would truely welcome them.

Also, I spent some time with her in Trinidad, and from Friday night through Sunday morning I was treated to an onslaught of the most nauseating videos of those glossy highly produced country-western gospel sing-fests - and in the morning, a children's tape of happy jesus songs for my little girl. I couldn't escape, and lay in bed hoping and praying that she'd turn off the tube. I certainly didn't want to intrude on her ritual in her own home.

Wanted to add that with all that religious stuff pouring into my ear, I began to hear clearly what they tell kids: you must PRACTICE your faith! Faith is "like a muscle". In other words, you gotta do it or lose it. Funny, isn't it? Gotta keep building up your blindness, keep working at believing in the ridiculous, because if you let go, the nonsense just can't hold up!

Why do you have to work so hard if it's so clear?

jasminedancer AT optonline DOT net


Anonymous said...

Atheism is not a religion, it is the lack of one, so it can't be argued against the faithful ignoranti. Read Genesis which is full of improbable science fiction. If you can't prove to your "friends" by asking them about the nonsense in genesis then get new friends..

Perry said...

There's no one easy answer. Most religionists have to persuade you that your leg is broken, so they can offer a crutch. You'll have to spend some time getting yourself acquainted with the whole deal, in order to be better informed on how to rebut such fairy-tale, mythological nonsense.

Fortunately, there's lots of Internet places you can go to get better educated and so become more capable of dealing with fundies.

Anonymous said...

It doesn't seem to me like you know what you believe or don't believe, or else you wouldn't need to ask for help in responding to evangelists. Just tell any Christians why you don't believe what they believe, and give them concrete examples of various things in the Old Testament or the Gospels that don't make sense to you. Use logic, in other words.

But if you can't even do that yet, how do you know that you belong here? If you've never read the Bible, King James or Roman Catholic, how can you be so sure that you're an atheist? You can't doubt in something if you don't even know what you doubt. It's like telling someone that you don't like horror films when you've never seen one.

Read what Christians hand you first, listen to what they say, give it some thought, and then if you don't believe, you'll be able to respond to them in your own words.

Hellbound Alleee said...

Just ask 'em what God was thinking when He planted that tree.

Anonymous said...

I don't know emptycan. I think I may have to agree with John on this one. Most of us are here ostensibly because we are ex-Christians. A born atheist doesn't sound to me like an ex-Christian.


Lenasvn1 said...

Naomi says she sought out this site because she felt lonely in all this. Lets welcome her!

I agree with you on the last part, that it has to be continuously in your face, or it won't "survive" reality.

Anonymous said...

Very well she-wolf. Welcome to the site Naomi.

In my experience Christians cannot be stereotyped too tightly. That is, they are not all the same. Some will give way politely if you tell them that you are not compelled by their belief system. Some however will give you the ole heaven or hell, it's your decision routine.

You don't have to feel alone in the experience of not being a Christian. There are many of us.

Again, welcome.


Anonymous said...

John: "It's like telling someone that you don't like horror films when you've never seen one."

Its like a christian telling everyone god exists, when they've never seen one.

Religion is imposed, and its very doctrine supports the imposition. If someone wants to impose "anything" on you, fight it with everything you have, until they provide you with enough "reason" to accept their words. I don't take advice from a bankrupt accountant, for my financial affairs, for obvious reasons, okay, I'll spell it out for the fundies. If an accountant knew their job and was competent they would not be bankrupt, and I mean bankrupt in a negative context, and the in-ability of the accountant to prevent such action.

A wise consumer, doesn't buy merchandise without inspecting the goods. No goods... No sale!

Anonymous said...

Welcome Naomi.

A good thing to keep in mind when dealing with your average, run-of-the-mill, rabid bulldog christian is to approach them the way you would approach a used car salesman. You are NEVER going to get them to see any downsides to their product/doctrine (even if their dogma has no engine, no tires, no stearing wheel and bullet holes in every door, window and apholstered surface they are going to insist that its still the best deal in town).

If all you want to do is to get them to go away, the best thing to do is to tell them that you've already converted to a different religion (I already own a shot-up piece-o-junk belief system, thankyou very much). If this feels a little bit dishonest just think of your religion as the Church of I-really-don't-want-to-listen-to-you-talk-about-your-religion.

If you really want to engage them in conversation (or they won't take no/stop/go-away for an answer) then the tactic that I find the most useful is to turn the conversation around so that its all about them. Point out the multitude of different christian denominations and suggest that most - if not all - of these other faiths must be false and untrustworthy (an idea that they'll most likely agree with). Then ask them how you can be certain that THEY don't represent a false and untrustworthy faith.

What makes them so blessed and holy? Why should you have faith in THEM? Be clear that you are not questioning God or Jesus or the Bible, but their credentials as a spokesperson for salvation. Ask them to do a few miracles. See if they can recite the Bible verbatim without looking. Question their interpretations of scripture. Make them admit that they are just as human and fallible and susceptable to the sins of pride and hubris as you are and, therefore, have no right to try and tell you what you should believe.

Anonymous said...

Naomi you should check out www.antichrist.net , dont worry its not a devil worshipping site or anything like that. Some of the motherloads and other posts are good to learn from. You will see how James (a scientist) debates with a large number of Christians using science or history as his argument. I went from Pro-Mormon to Anti-Christian and have spent quite abit of time over the past year reading books, watching documentarys and looking up websites to get as much info on the bible and christianity as possible. www.cygnus-study.com is good for debunking the bible and www.atheists.org will teach you a little on christian history. Good Luck!

Anonymous said...

It doesn't matter what we believe, or don't believe when we die.

The only sensible thing to assume is, that whatever happened to Neanderthal man when he was outsmarted by homo sapiens man, and became extinct, the same will happen to us.

One thing for certain is, that it will make sense to whatever created the universe and set into motion everything, and what we believe at the moment we leave this life, cannot influence the very force that created us.

So just try to enjoy the incredibly short time you have here on this insignificant planet that is flying through space with a couple of billion others.

Dan (We were all born Agnostics, and had imaginary friends when we were children. It was just a part of growing up)

SpaceMonk said...

"Naomi, do you follow your lord?" and when I aver to avoid an argument, especially with my deeply devout Caribbean friend, she laughs and says, "that's not a direct answer!"

I hate that shit.
Noone is your lord.
You don't have to answer to anybody.

...and you don't have to read a bible just for a christian.

Just the same as I won't read the Koran for any Muslim.
I read what I want for my own purpose, and not because I have to answer to anybody - let alone anyone who thinks they are my 'Lord'.

Christians are the only ones obliged to "be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear".
Atheists have no such obligation, and if your friends have any attitude against you, then ask them where is their spirit of "meekness and fear"?

Then push for answers about the hope that is within them.

Then keep asking them more and more questions for every pre-recorded answer they give you, because no lie can stand up to questioning for very long.

You don't even need to know the bible for that, just common sense.

Anonymous said...

Lots of good suggestions. I'll cull through these to hand pick my responses depending on the person. I find it very interesting (and irritating!) that people assume I haven't read the bible because I'm a born atheist. Please. I even took a bible class in high school and you don't have to live in this country very long to pick up on the "God smote down" and all that stuff about swapping wives and slaves. Come on. I only wanted advice on how to deal with my close, loving friends with their inanities. One of them leaves me alone (even though I'm going to hell) but the other one is Caribbean, and arguing with her would strike her as hostility. I like best the suggestions that come with dignity: anonymous said, "Some will give way politely if you tell them that you are not compelled by their belief system...." and tigg13's entire response.

I also bridle at the suggestion that I am ignorant because if I haven't read the bible. I do not have to read the Invisible Elephant in the Livingroom Believers' book once I have understood that I do not believe there is an invisible elephant in the middle of the livingroom. It is not up to me to disprove their thesis. What do you think the ACLU is all about?? I also think that arguing with an fundamentalist will only make them think I'm a dangerous person or a threat and will do nothing in the cause of steering this country away from neo-conservatism.

And for the person who suggested I should not be on this list, even though you later apologized, don't be so hasty to judge. I may not have the great advantage of having been born a christian (!!) but I sure got eyes!


jimearl said...

Hi Naomi. Welcome to the site. You sound like you have it together and don't want to hurt others feelings. I respect that. I usually make fun of religion and believe me there is plenty to make fun of. I have found over the past several years that this approach works best for me. Of course, most of the people I have discussions with are close friends or relatives and this approach may not work on strangers or casual friends. The bible is an excellent source of comic material and I might also suggest you listen to some George Carlin, Lewis Black and many others for ammo as well. I will give you one example of my approach method. Once I was asked to pick up some neigborhood teen boys from the local church parking lot and when I drove up and opened the van door, I said to them, "Ya'll brush that religion off you before you get in, I don't want any getting on me." We all had a good laugh and also an opening to discuss religious matters. By the way, the boys were not believers, they were there playing basketball and needed a ride home. Because of my influence, none of my son's friends are religious. They laugh at religion and go only because their parents force them to. They are not believers. However, they are still allowed to come to my home and we all have a good time watching tv and cracking on religious people. I find that if kids are exposed to other ideas when they are young, they don't accept the dogma of religion very well. I am also involved with children because of my hobby, which is digging for artifacts. I am able to get the religious ones to think just by telling them the history of the ancient peoples and sharing the dates of some of my points. They are amazed when I tell them some of my points are older than Adam and Eve. That really gets them thinking. I also tell them that nothing stops a thinking mind like religion. I have one particular 9 year old boy that is proud that he knows an atheist! By the time he is a teenager, he will have heard many different ideas and thoughts that may well lead him out of religion. We were discussing Thomas Edison last week and I asked him if he had ever heard the quote from Edison "Religion is Bunk." He said what is bunk and I told him to look it up. Anyway, I hope some of this helps. Good luck and stick around here. You will find many willing to help.

Anonymous said...

When I was in my pre-teens and still a believer of sorts kids would go around asking each other'what religion are you?' I'll never forget one new girl's response, she asked if I believed in God to which with peer pressure in evidence I said 'yes.' She then asked: 'What religion is God?' and explained that she was an atheist like all gods.' Naturally all the other kids including myself had no reply and up to that point we would childishly avoid avoid the atheists. It took this one new student atheist with a strong self identity as one to break the ice among pre-teens exploring their social boundaries. From then on out following more witty replies talk of religion largely disappeared.

I would hope the same could come for you among your adult believer friends but speaking from experience, if your friends are leaning more to the fundamental/literal belief forms of Christianity and since you have indicated your desire not to cause a dramatic rift in your relationships you may need to have a polite talk with your friends and if they cannot accept you as you are then yes, you may need to expand your group of those you consider friends.

I have seen examples of communities where Christianity in the more fundamentalist forms are more dominant. If you find yourself somewhat bound by your geography to believers it may be more difficult to function within your community without suffering ostracism especially in business where your pocketbook can be most greatly impacted by those who would rather avoid doing business with unbelievers. If this is your situation, you might want to seriously consider a geographic move, perhaps to a more suburban or city area. I have found more rural areas tend to harbor more examples of 'Churchianity' being the ruler of the social and business communities so consider these things along with some of the excellent comments here. Remember too, if you are in a more 'religious' oriented town/community surely there are many who are not truly believers but who play 'Churchianity' so they can function in the community without hostility.

Best of luck with your friends, if they shun you after your 'talk' then yes, it is time for new friends and maybe even a move if none are realistically possible based on your geography.

Anonymous said...

Personally i like arguing with christians, and not out of disrespect because most of the christians i have met are mostly good, philosophical people, even if their beliefs about the world are, in my own opinion, very skewed. The argument is brilliant because both people go into it believing that they are both entirely right, but i have yet to meet a christian whose beliefs can stand up to basic common sence. The bible might contain good morals to live your life by but a literal translation of the bible is destructive to humanity and the progress of mankind. The belief in God or an "intelligent designer" is nothing more than superstition and fear that is being passed down generations, and fed by a dictatorial system. Of course people are scared about what happens when people die, but that doesn't mean we need to harken to old superstitions and beliefs that just don't stand up to our modern age. Believe in humanity and people not in fairytales and thoroughly debunked superstitions. Don't get angry when people try to convert you to christianity, pity them, you are free of a dictatorship that they have, more-than-likely, suffered all their lives, having fear thrown at them from a young age making them believe in fire and brimstone instead of reality and life. Lead people into common sence when they try to snare you into their autocratic nonsence.

- Bobaah

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the welcomes, all! I am very entertained by these emails and am looking forward to gleaning little nuggets of arsenal for the next ridiculous and frustrating (to me)attempt to convert me. Piprus has it absolutely right: "As a born atheist, you've never been exposed to the bizarro-world of xianity, so you're not in a position to argue it when an evangelizer tries to draw you into their spiderweb". I have many time tried common sense; one guy even shook his head and said, "Naomi. You should know better". As far as being surrounded by them, no problem: I live in New York City. But for some reason I find my closest friends are Christians! Hey, maybe they're drawn to my fundamental common sense! One of them I may choose to argue with eventually; she's nuts, and very smart. My Caribbean friend I won't touch. And my mellow Catholic friends leave me alone. I may have talk with them if they try to persuade me one more time to get my little one into church.

But as far as the "safe" people go: yesterday I saw two young men walking down the street with Jews for Jesus t-shirts on and very serious expressions. I stared hard, daring myself not to avoid this reality (they weren't looking at me). Believe me, being an athiest in a religious world is a somewhat isolating experience. I was thinking, "how can I take these guys on?" I'm going to have to rehearse my bible quotes. Anyone know a site that lists silly bible quotes?

Anonymous, who suggested I might have to move and told a story from your teenhood, you reminded me of a really scary thing that happened to me in third grade in St. Louis. The next-door teacher, who up until then had seemed really nice, came unannounced into our classroom and abruptly asked us, "Who believes in God?" I was terrified, as I pretty much understood that I was the only atheist in the room. I raised my hand with all the others. I have always wondered if she meant to target me. My younger brother was in those days running around, declaring that he didn't believe in God, and getting beaten up for it on the playground. Perhaps this will help people here understand why I do not confront christians.


Anonymous said...

I like asking: "Do you believe in the existence of other gods, like Vishnu, or Apollo, or Zeus?" They will (of course) say no. "Then you have no problem with the idea of not believing in specific gods?" No, they do not. "I agree - I just don't believe in one more than you."


Anonymous said...

Well, there is no one set of conditions that are common to all christians. (Heck, you can't even pin them down to one freakin doctrine!) But, the most common psychological trait that I've noticed is insecurity.

Imagine stepping outside during a thunderstorm just in time to witness someone getting hit by lightning. If this is just a random incident and this person just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, then whose to say that next time it won't happen to you? You have no control. No security.

But, if you invoke a god, then you can assign a reason why that person was hit by lightning. Maybe he/she said a bad word or ate the wrong food on the wrong day. Whatever it is, if you can identify it and then make sure you don't make the same mistake, then you don't have to worry about lightning bolts. Now you have control. Now you have security.

Look at where christianity finds most of its converts: prisons, substance abuse programs, college campuses, nursing homes, homeless shelters. Places where insecurity rules.

Christianity provides a sense of control, a sense of meaning and of purpose to those whose insecurities about life, death and their place in it all have a strong hold over them. It tells them that, even though things might look bad for them now, there is an all-powerful being who controls everthing that happens, that will solve all of their problems and protect them forever; that if they chose to follow this being (asert control) they will live happily ever after (have security).

This is why it is so frustrating to discuss religion with christians. Knock down the walls of their faith and, suddenly, they will have to face reality alone with no magic book to tell them what to do and excuse them from having to take responcibility for their thoughts and deeds. No, life is much to scary without god, so, no matter how ridiculous or illogical he appears, they must cling to him.

Now, even most christians will agree that most christians aren't really christians. So, however comforting this faith might be, by and large, it is still artificial, unreal and is really a false sense of security. Because even if you never say anything bad and keep a strict diet, you still might get hit by lightning.

As far as your make-up artist friend goes, she might have the energy and confidence to do all those things because her faith protects her from her insecurities. Or she may just have a lot of drive and spunk inspite of her faith. Who knows?

Anonymous said...

Great response Tigg, one must also remember that it is traditional thought that people that lived before us, where much more smarter than we are, since they didn't have as many Satanic influences as we do, and they were considered closer to God than us because, we are drifting away from God, by generation to generation of course.

Plus they did not allow scientific knowledge to be studied, it was of Satan.

So there's really just no hope for anyone, because we are all destined for hell, including jesus, because he was a jew.

Anonymous said...

I too was brought up an unbeliever. On the other hand, I'm a useful light soprano, and in my university career I sang in several church choirs, including one at a theological college. But no one ever tried to evangelise me; it just didn't go on in that society, where all the Christians - even the trainee priests - are of a very freethinking kind. So I know nothing about your problems.

I can imagine a couple of possible approaches I might take. One involves professing a sort of collector's interest in religions, and one involves quoting things that sound like the Bible, but aren't. I doubt they'd be much use to you, though. These are people you converse with regularly, so strategies that just create unease and confusion while you make an escape won't work, unless they make the conversations as uncomfortable for them as they already are for you, so they avoid the subject.

That's not really what you want, is it? You want to keep the friends, and you don't want to clutter your brain with information about the details of false beliefs. Well, perhaps it can be turned around. The situation really is not that you have a problem with them or their beliefs, but that they have a problem with yours. Would it help to make that explict? Maybe "I do not believe in God ['Lord?' Interesting use of a feudal title], I know what your beliefs are, I find them totally unpersuasive, and I disapprove of their content; but I stand by your freedom to practise them. I will never, ever, be converted. I realise that you have a problem with that. If it means that you can't associate with me any more, I'll be sorry to lose you, but I won't take offence. And if you ever want to escape the cult, you'll know where to find me."

I'm not sure that this would keep the friend - especially the last bit, which had probably better be dropped - but it might make them stop and think for a minute.

SpaceMonk said...

I'm sorry if I came across slightly militant in my last post Naomi.
I guess I've still got triggers...
you asked, "What do you say when they protest by calling the Bible the revealed word, the one and only, etc. etc.?"

First I'd ask if they can prove that.

Then ask about all the differing translations and ancient manuscripts,
- as well as all the gospels and books that got left out of the bible by only a slim vote at Nicea, but yet were written by the same authors, etc.

Then ask (because questioning is the key) something like, "What about the natives in far off lands who never got to hear that Word, living and dying for generation after generation while missionaries hadn't got around to them yet...?
Are they going to eternal hell just because they never even knew about Jesus?"
(Which the bible both claims and refutes, depending which verses you prefer to go with.)

If so then bible-god is unjust (ie. unbalanced 'justice'), self contradictory and not worthy of worship...

But if those natives actually can still be saved somehow, then who needs christianity anyway, since being some kind of good and honest person seems to work just as well...
- and also then, why did Jesus order his disciples to go and evangelise the world?

There are bible verses they can use to support either argument, but then they leave themselves in a catch-22 situation.

Naomi:"...the motives, or underlying psychological conditions, of jesus believers..."

Of course there are those living in fear of God, or fear of hell, or fear of Satan, or fear of life, or people, etc. and need a Jesus they can turn to for protection.

Then there are those who are raised in it and so are ignorant of any contradictions and have never had alternatives pointed out to them in any positive light. They've only seen 'creation science' and only ever had evolution, etc, laughed at by those who have taught them, and so just accept christianity as plain reality.

There are also those who like to imagine that those who have abused them in life are going to hell...
...or get off on the power trip of telling someone else that they're going to hell.

Yet I also think many modern christians simply like the positive message that is so regularly preached.
The love supposedly shown by bible-god, the comfort of a like-minded community, the noble and romanticised sacrifice of Jesus, the promised salvation from guilt and the feeling of freedom that brings, and also the promise of money, money, money, from "sowing your seed", etc...

Such positivity can work, actually bringing benefit to your life, simply becuase your personality is more confident and uplifted, and is then uplifting to others.

The same could be gotten from a Tony Robbins CD however, but modern evangelical christianity works in a whole spiritual story to make a more satisfying picture.

To me it's a one eyed perspective, because the other side of their oh, so loving god is the fact that he set up eternal hell for the majority of mankind, when he could have gone with a system like reincarnation, or something that would have actually saved all men, the way he claims he wants...

So if your makeup artist friend is doing well I think it's because of her own frame of mind (and maybe a a new positivity) rather than any divine intervention.

...beyond that I have to agree with Tigg13.

Anonymous said...

athiesm is one of the best things on this earth because its the only thing that can make people be free from all religion and the sectarianism in it and stuff like that .. im only 14 but i have a question for christians ... if god is all powerful then can he make a rock that is indestructable even to him and if so can he destroy it?... if he can then its not indestructable and if not then hes not powerful enough to destroy it... so bascially thats my like defence sort of thing.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous wrote:
"athiesm is one of the best things on this earth because its the only thing that can make people be free from all religion and the sectarianism in it and stuff like that .. im only 14 but i have a question for christians ... if god is all powerful then can he make a rock that is indestructable even to him and if so can he destroy it?... if he can then its not indestructable and if not then hes not powerful enough to destroy it... so bascially thats my like defence sort of thing"

Dan to Anonymous:
Break out that logical mind of yours every day and polish it. I wish I could have been asking questions like you ask, when I was 14.

Dan (Make up a screen name push the "OTHER" button, and stick around)

Anonymous said...

thank you dano, but it was my familys religions that made me start to read up on religious phylosophy and it has really saved my well, life! because i can focus on the more important things in life. My mom is a buddhist my bro is an athiest and my sister is a christian so i decided to join my brother and believe in the 1 thing that you cant really be put down for following, which is great ! and my second defence is if god is all loving all knowledgable all wise and all powerful then why is there evil ... that either means he is not wise enough to realise his creations would turn evil or that he is not powerful enough to stop evil, or he is a little evil... makes you wonder doesnt it ?

Anonymous said...

i shall stick around.

Anonymous said...

AAHHH NOT ONE OF THOSE SAD PEOPLE WHO ARE PROUD TO BE AN ATHEIST!....It sounds like someone actually READ the Bible and then decided it was bull...NOT! FIRST why don't you READ WHERE IT COMES FROM, THEN JUDGE. I belive there is a God and I belive I am a Christian. Faith is something people like you (obviously) just don't understand. Its OK to be ignorent, cause its Bliss, RIGHT?

Anonymous said...

AAHHH NOT ONE OF THOSE SAD PEOPLE WHO ARE PROUD TO BE AN ATHEIST!....It sounds like someone actually READ the Bible and then decided it was bull...NOT! FIRST why don't you READ WHERE IT COMES FROM, THEN JUDGE(or not?). I believe there is a God and I believe I am a Christian. Faith is something people like you (obviously) just don't understand. Its OK to be ignorent, cause its Bliss, RIGHT?

Anonymous said...

There is evil because (once again, here goes people who havent read the Bible saying things they just DON'T UNDERSTAND) there needs to be a earthly balance, and if there werent then we wouldnt be:
1.) Tested
2.) Fearful
3.) Reminded that people are genetically made up to recognize the CHOICE of GOOD and EVIL. There is some religious science for you there.

Anonymous said...

Anonym-ass fundy intruder blurted: "Faith is something people like you (obviously) just don't understand. Its OK to be ignorent, cause its Bliss, RIGHT?"

The tobacco industry has "Faith" that smoking doesn't cause cancer. Ummm, I'd had "Faith" that people who would throw around the word "ignorant", would at least know how to spell it. lol

Why don't you make like your non-existant "God", and become invisible?...'kay, little man? Buh-bye, now.

J. C. Samuelson said...


I agree. It's a guaranteed way to assure oneself that the Christian faith is founded on baloney.

All of us at one time or another seek to touch that something that could be defined as divinity. There's nothing wrong with this. In fact, I think it should be encouraged because of the deep soul-searching involved. It's when a person becomes convinced they've found the one Truth™ for all mankind, and actively begins to proselytize others that the problems begin.

Thanks for being a great example of why NOT to be a Christian.

Steven Bently said...

I can prove there is a God!

Just ask any preacher, and they will tell you there is a God.

That's all the proof a christian needs!

Anonymous said...

yes but the thing is that isnt proof, in a courtroom you couldnt say your proof is that there is a god so basically your talking out of your ass so stop being such an arsebiscuit

Anonymous said...

and what are christians doing on an ex-christian site anyway ?

Anonymous said...

Unfortunately some people do not know that the underline under someones name at the top of their post means that some have a link to their personal blog to get more information or to post a rebuttle.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous: R U SERIOUS?! You are calling us ignorant when you can't even spell the word? You are calling us ignorant when our "unbelief" is based on what has sometimes amounted to years of study and research into the origins of Christian doctrines? You are calling us ignorant when most of us were Christians for many, many years and once believed all the bullshit that you do? You are calling us ignorant despite the fact that our decision to deconvert came quiet often after years of confusion and torment until we could no longer deny the TRUTH? We are ignorant when our decision is based on sound reason, but you are "enlightened" and intellectually superior because you believe in something you have no proof of. You have never heard His audible voice. You have never seen Him. You have never moved a mountain or handled deadly snakes without being bitten, or healed the sick or raised the dead. Jesus said that his followers would do greater things than even He did. You are calling us ignorant when most of us can quote the Bible better than you?

Once again, I pose my question: R U SERIOUS?

Roger O'Donnell said...

If one was born in a western culture, one has a pretty good idea by the age of 7 if the Jesus meme will work for you or not as a child, then some people realise that, as an adult, what is taught is pig wind. Loud, impressive, pungent and ultimately of minimal worth.

For the record, I nearly got expelled from school for my stance on the virgin birth (aged 5). I wasn't sure how babies came about, but I knew that angels weren't involved and angels were upside fairies. Stars did not move. Taxes were not collected based on place of birth. By the following Easter, I'd learned to keep my opinions to myself (dead people stayed dead). So, the meme was tried and didn't take. My mother is a primitive Methodist, my dad was a Roman Catholic, so I was raised in a 'Chrisitian' house hold, but the stories never carried any more resonance for me than the adventures of Janet and John.

Thus one can logically be an atheist without having been Christian, just going thru the school system at a certain time (at least in the UK)

Sean Chan said...

psychological manipulation.

people keep a religion because they believe that such an act would jeopardize their personal confidence and self-esteem. they see it as a viable reality, anda more 'rarional' one.

So, u convince yourself of past experiences as supporting this religion- confirmation bias - and thus think that religion istrue.
(not u obviously :))

one would hear testimonial evidence - evidence that increases the ikelihood of such a religion as being true - which it doesnt. if society says that tom has a vagina, and even if there is consensusamong society, society may still be wrong.

Most people may not be critical thinkers, or enquirers, but most likely have gained the influnce of being ignorant froman environment thatmay have certain inclinations.

u noe wad?
people believe in such bs becuz they have been misinformed about truth. if they were more informed, they would grow older and come to realize that truth lies in the hands of a skeptical, yet rational enquirer.

Anonymous said...

yo are a bitch

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