On the one hand, I want to do this. The person who died was someone I always had good memories of (a friends father) and the friend is someone I want to touch base with and check in with, because it's important that people do that from time to time.
But I guarantee, as sure as god made green grass, that one or two people there, people with no sense of social appropriateness (after all, this is a shiva call, not a debate. Somebody has died here.) are going to try to start an argument and call me a "self-loathing Jew" (whatever that means). If it were me, I would just be polite to whoever showed up, and put politics and religion and all that aside out of respect.
But religionists don't do that. Who was it, who, in response to a comment some stupid fundy made to Ian's anger post, he said, "Dear God, Ian, they're *relentless*!" You think Christian fundys are relentless. Jewish fundamentalists are the worst. After all, we are the chosen people.
Anyway. Just had to get that off my chest. Because I don't mind the service at all. It's what this persons son, my friend wants, and it's what this person would have wanted, and it's what I'll do for my Father and Mother when they are gone. It just doesn't have much intrinsic or spiritual meaning for me. What does have intrinsic, spiritual meaning for me is sitting and talking about this man, and how he affected my life, and how he never had a bad word for anyone, and how he struggled with tremendous pain and diffiiculty and never took it out on anyone and never held a grudge. He was a good man, an honest man, and talking about that and going over it, that is spiritual for me. And it's going to piss me off when the religionists of the bunch get on me about the quality of my nonexistent Judaism.
Anyway,
Dave Berlin
Hard Atheist, learning about science and logic etc.
At some point a man makes certain logical leaps: God never answers my prayers, I never see him, he doesn't help with anything and the kicker, it doesn't seem to matter whether there is religion or not. It's extraneous to life.
6 comments:
Dear Dave,
Just signing in to show you my sympathy. (gives virtual hug)
Isn't it amazing that some people will use funerals (or, as in this case, shivas) to get their little "I'm right and your wrong and I'm going to publicly beat you around the ears with my right" kicks? Relentless indeed
The best thing to do, imo, is to keep your dignity, refuse to be drawn in their 'discussion' and simply and openly say (for all to hear) "I'm here to remember and honor a dear friends life, I'm not here to argue about your insecurities. If it makes you feel good to call me a 'self-loathing Jew', fine, I'm a self-loathing Jew. Now, can I go back to talking about this dear friend of mine who died? Thank you."
Bullies tend to find a word, a slur to cow people. If the people who they try to bully loudly and unashamedly say "yeah, so what?" they will be gobsmacked. Won't stall them for long (they'll try again and maybe again) but they won't win from you.
Remember: never explain yourself.
Never explain - your friends do not need it and your
enemies will not believe you anyway.
- Elbert Hubbard
Well, I have to be intellectually honest. The two people I was expecting didn't show, to my great surprise. But you can take the story apocryphally--both of those people have called me a "self loathing Jew" (in public), both of them are what I think of as "wannabe Zionists", because they don't understand the racism inherent in Zionism--somebody once described the type as "the worst kind of idealist" because they never have to see the carnage, the dead babies and the innocent men stripped naked and used as human shields, that their money supports. I've actually been told that "you can't leave Judaism, you are Jewish whether you like it or not" (!) by these people, and not just the ones I had in mind. There is an asinine Jewish idea that Jews never mixed racially, because we were "above that" in the sense of "better than that". Obviously not true, otherwise Jews would still look like Bedouin tribesmen or Afghanis. I don't even have much of a Levantine nose. And what about the Jews, the Kohanim in Ethiopia? A lot of non-Jews don't realize this, but there was a big internecine fight within Judaism between supporters of the Ethiopians and those who believed that they were scamming for material support. Because *everybody knows* you can't possibly be a schvatze and be Jewish.
Oh don't even get me started. It didn't happen yesterday, but it's happened before and will again. I'm actually worried what is going to happen to my poor mother, who values the synagogue a great deal, when some of the mucky mucks find out her son ia an atheist. Synagogues are HUGELY political places.
And you are right, I need explain to no one. I've begun to reconcile with my mother, and understand her better (which has led to her listening to me a little more)...anyway.
http://www.dvorkin.com/yinotjew.htm
Hi, me again.
I actually wanted to quote Disraeli (British PrimeMinister to Queen Victoria) but I couldn't find the quote. It's this: "Never apologize, never explain".
He should know. He was of Jewish parents, got himself baptized in the Church of England and was hugely succesful as a politician and a writer. He even became the Earl of Beaconsfield.
For a 'self-loathing Jew' he was pretty happy and succesful (most powerful man in the world, in fact)
Go on Dave, let those idiots behind. They and their opinions are unworthy.
Your mother.. Well, she might love you and respect your ideas or she might love her image and the opinion of others more... Harsh, I know.. But people might surprise you, you know. Here's a link to an online excerpt of Dan Barker's Loosing Faith in Faith (a few years after telling his religious family he was an atheist, they nearly all became atheists themselves! There's hoping for you :-)
http://ffrf.org/books/lfif/?t=ripples
Strength, Dave. And good luck.
Off the subject. It is funny how European jews considered themselves the CHOSEN ones when actually it is only the true jews. Which are middle eastern. Anyone can be a jew as far as religion goes.For example you can change to hindu, catholism, christianity ( jeseus was a jew ). But you cannot change your race. If that is so then the black africans jews can claim ancestory to to the jews in the bible.
"Who was it, who, in response to a comment some stupid fundy made to Ian's anger post, he said, "Dear God, Ian, they're *relentless*!""
I think that was me, although I didn't say "Dear god". I may or may not have said "Oh God".
In his article, Ian was talking about how he still had lingering fear of hell. He was like a recovering alchoholic who still had a hangover. He specfically said how it still made him feel when Christians tell hem he's hellbound. And then some bloody Christan comes here and says it AGAIN. I'm also the one who used the metaphore of throwing snakes at an ex snakecharmer who has a phobia of snakes.
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