I'm living proof!

Sent in by Justin Taylor

At the age of 18, I have witnessed God firsthand! I wanted proof and I got proof! More than I could handle! God spoke to me and showed me that the way i was living wasn't right and that He is coming back to Earth soon! he also told me to inform His people of His return. I have completely devoted my life to God and nothing can convince me that He isn't real. I have witnessed Him heal cancer through MY prayers! I myself was dealing weed for years, smoking 4 blunts a day, a pack of cigs a day, had an infinite supply of porn along with an addiction and had tried just abvout every drug on the market, was having sex left and right and didn't care less for life! I changed that cold turkey when God came and showed me the TRUTH! There are over 500 prophesies listed in the Bible that have came to pass within the past decade or so, history proves that Jesus did come to earth as the son of God, and Jesus is mentioned in every other major religion unlike Buddah, Allah, Ra, Television etc.!

If my people, which are called by My name, will humble themselves and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.” (2 Chronicles 7:14).

If you think you can prove to me that there is no God, be my guest! I'd love to prove you wrong! I was once like you, but GOD IS TOO GOOD to leave me like you! For all of you used to be Christians who say that you changed because of something bad that happened in your life and you say to yourelf, "Why me?" All I have to say is WHY NOT YOU! Job lost his family, his money, his friends, his health, and everything he had, but he still loved God and trusted him and got back double what he had before!

90 comments:

Chris said...

You are living proof that ignorance is alive and flourishing.

Avie said...

Wow! That's some proof! You have totally changed my life, I'm going to go dust off my Bible and head back to church. No, not really, I'm just kidding. Sorry, I couldn't help it. Thanks for the laugh, though.

Seriously, dude, you need to grow up. And possibly go to a psychiatrist. If god spoke to you, that's a pretty serious condition. It's called schizophrenia and it can be controlled with medication.

As for your little I-was-a-sinner-but-now-I'm-not-anymore testimony, it's an old trick often used in tent revivals. I had an uncle that would accept payment from preachers to get up and tell about how he was dealing drugs, doing drugs, reading porn, having sex, doing time in jail, riding with the Hell's Angels, etc, etc. when God appeared to him and saved him. It was all BS. Lies told to unwitting and desperate people to get them to accept a deity who can't care any less for them. You're lying, too. And you're arrogant, to boot, as per your comment "I have witnessed Him heal cancer through MY prayers!" (It also shows you have a total lack of understanding about cancer. We all have cancer. Our bodies are fighting it off every day. It's only when our bodies fail to fight it off that it becomes a problem. Even then, cancer goes into remission. It does not just go away, unless we die.)

I can't prove that there is no God, but you certainly can't prove that there is. I could sit here and write that the same thing as you and make it about Zeus. Would you give up your God and go to Zeus worship? Doubtful.

Anonymous said...

aren't there safeguards to keep psychotics off the board?

Roger O'Donnell said...

I have four questions

1) What are you smoking?
2) Is it legal?
3) If it's legal, where can I get some?
4) Have you seriously considered a brain scan?

An 18 year old with an imaginary friend who talks to him is a cause for concern. Word to the wise, listen to the voices when they tell you to be nice, ignore them when they say to kill the infidels, OK?

Love and hugs,
Grandpa H xxx

David90212 said...

I remember talking to this fruitcake via email before. His head is so thick that he is incapable of reasoned thought and displays the classic symptoms of ignorance.

He will send you a picture claiming that it has an entity in it, but it does not unless you consider a hocket helmet reflection an entity.

This guy has absolutely no proof, and can't even present a proper case for anything. Including on why he should not be locked away in a nut house.

I gave him every fair chance to make a presentation with some margin of intellect, he failed miserably.

Anonymous said...

Justin,
If you answer Harlequin's questions #2 and #3 above, put me down for a bag too!
God-smoke, I love it!

Anonymous said...

Justin,

welcome to this board. Now... can you tell us exactly HOW God showed you he was real, since you do not actually say so in your admittedly moving opening shot.

Because unless you actually had a personal encounter with the Old One - we are not impressed. We have heard it all before. We know the Bible quite well, thank you, and we do not consider it the word of any God.

So, please. Make your case more coherently. Otherwise, your enthusiasm is appreciated, by me anyway, since it is at least devoid of threats or insults. I´ll take childlike hyperactivity over hatefilled diatribes any day of the week.

Angel Rai said...

heh-heh ... psychopaths are everywhere ... especially in christian circles

RSM said...

Well, I had thought this is a joke. I figured it's Taylork45 from the forums and that in that last paragraph he would disclose his real position. I guess I was wrong.

Anonymous said...

You're addictive tendencies have now been applied to your God fantasies. You talk about them with utter dependence.

It is not attractive to offer us a God addiction.

You are way too over the top in your dependent behavior.

Anonymous said...

Reminds me of a friend I had while in the Methodist church. he got "saved" then would say he quite drug, sex, la la la......come to find out the dude was cheating on his wife, doing hard drugs, and stole a car..All the while he would go arouynd to different churches to give his testimony.
If anyone here has not seen the classic movie Elmer Gantry i recomend it..Shows the frauds of these testimonies.

Anonymous said...

"I have witnessed Him heal cancer through my prayers."

Hmmm... Lance Armstrong

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm

"I myself was dealing weed..."

Me too. I was smoking about an ounce a week, two packs of cigarettes a day, dipping a can every 4 days, drinking at least 3 times a week, and I still have an infinite supply of porn --> the internet. I quit cold turkey but god hasn't showed me the "truth".

"There are over 500 prophecies..."

What about the propechy of Jesus coming within the generation of those living at that time?

I've got a prophecy. I'm about to take a shower.

And about 2 Chronicles 7:14, I think most of us here have humbled ourselves and prayed like there's no tomorrow. No answer. And what land has God healed? Darfur? Indochina after the tsunamis? The ghetto down the street where people are shot each day? The middle east?

And for your last paragraph as Avie said...

" If you think you can prove to me that there is no Zeus, be my guest! I'd love to prove you wrong! I was once like you, but ZEUS IS TOO GOOD to leave me like you!!"

Shannon said...

Shit man, if your god is actually channeling healing powers through your prayers, your knees should be raw because there seems to be a few more people around here that are suffering and dying not just from cancer but from numerous other diseases. Bend over, Justin, bend over.

Anonymous said...

I love testimonials! Someone like this guy comes to this forum (NOTE: EX-Christian! Get it?), goes on and on about how he was such an asshole before Cheeses saved him, then acts like a asshole by being arrogant and condescending (granted he didn't threaten like most).

All you've done is trade one addiction for another.

SpaceMonk said...

"Why me?" All I have to say is WHY NOT YOU!..."

Um, because bible-god is supposedly a god of love and mercy?
If he had mercy he would show it.
If he had love he would show it.
We are not his toys.

"...Job lost his family, his money, his friends, his health, and everything he had, but he still loved God (what an idiot) and trusted him (why?) and got back double what he had before!"

Job may be the star of the show, but he's not the only human in this story.
What about his innocent wife and kids?
Sure Job get's double what he lost, but those kids don't get their lives back. No love or mercy for them.

...and what have you got against porn?
It's far less expensive and time consuming than the whole romantic grovelling, dating scene.

jimearl said...

Hello Justin.

I'm so glad you wrote your post. I needed someone with your faith to settle a bet. Your bible says that you,as a true believer,can drink poison and live. Do you believe that? It's in the bible so you have to. Now, get some deadly poison, a glass of antifreeze will do nicely, and prove your "GOD" is able to save your sorry ass. Just think, you could save everyone on this site if you prove that, because of your "GOD", you can drink the poison and live.

Justin, I hope you are smart enough to know better but just in case, DO NOT DRINK ANTIFREEZE. No matter what your bible says, you will die.

What I would suggest is a little study of the history of your religion. Once you know the history and how Jebus was voted to be divine, you may start using your brain. I doubt it, but there is a slight chance you could see the light. If that fails, do us all a favor and wear aluminum foil around your head. We want to be able to reconize you should our paths ever cross. Thanks,

Anonymous said...

Show me over 500 prophecies that have come to pass within the last decade or so, please. If you cannot, then you are a liar and we can't believe anything you say.

Smoking dope and having lots of sex sounds pretty good to me, actually.

Christianity is nonsense.

Anonymous said...

Has the Ted Haggard example been used too much already?

Anonymous said...

Hullo Justin,
You are less than half my age.
When I was 18, I was just escaping from the christian cult.
I went from degradation and self loathing, to dignity and self respect. All by simply accepting that there was no truth to the bible myths.

As a christian I was expected to give testamonials of having been a drug addict/gang member before I was "saved". These testamonials were writen by my pastor, or taken from christian magazines. In fact I had never been in a gang or used any illegal drugs in my life, but like you, I was willing to lie for jesus, because I believed that I was already "forgiven".

There are very few clear prophecys listed in the bible,, and those few are highly questionable,

History says NOTHING about your jesus character, try again.

Jesus is not mentioned in buddhist or zorastoran or shintu or taoist texts. he is found only in the christian and islamic texts, you are reciting a weak lie.

Please do not spew recycled testamonials at me again,

Ian said...

Justin, you remind me when I first became a christian. Excited, eager, convinced that I had absoloute proof of God's existance and that I had, or knew, everything I would ever need in life. Now, six years later, I chuckle that I used to think as you do.

You don't tell us how God spoke to you, so I can't really comment on it. Did you read it from a book? Did you have a vivid dream? I once had a vivid daydream where God suggested to me that I keep writting books (I was working on one at the time), that they would help many people. After that, i've been writting ever since. Articles here at ex-christian, and stories elsewhere. God diddn't tell me to follow Jesus or the bible. God simply suggested something that I could do to help others.

Your story is also fairly typical among testimonies for the faith. Your life was bad, then you came to christ and now you're dedicated to him and God. That's not suprising, since people who's lives generally are going downhill will be more grateful and ecstatic when they are turned around. That can come from many things, from finding a girlfriend/boyfriend, when you turn to religion, or any number of experiences. One could say that in life, we experience things that turn us to our higher nature, instead of the lower, more animal side of us.

As for the prophecies, if you look at them in depth, most are based on verses that are taken out of context, have nothing to do with the "Prophecy" being fufilled, etc. Do you know Jesus told his followers that he (as the son of man) would return within thier lifetimes? He was wrong. He diddn't return. And according to the old testamet, those who make phrophecies that fail are to be killed. Jesus made prophecies and promises that failed. Whywontgodhealamputees.com has a very nice page on bible prophecy (http://www.whywontgodhealamputees.com/god23.htm)

" I was once like you, but GOD IS TOO GOOD to leave me like you!"

How negative. You are saying that a God of perfect love, perfect mercy, and perfect justice left us? You are suggesting that it was God who abandoned us, not the other way around. I think that may be a first from a chritian.

Ahh, the story of Job. "god" slaughters his family, destroys everything he has, makes his life miserable...simply to see if Job will keep worshipping him. When Job passes, God gives him everything back...except his wife and children who were brutally killed. The "god" of Job is a sadistic bully who has no qualms about torturing his followers simply to see if they'll keep worshipping him. In many ways, the "god" of Job is a narcisst.

Perhaps the story of Job has a different, deeper meaning. During our lives, we get into what is called comfort zones. We're happy, we're content, we don't want to go any further. But as it happens, our comfort zone is destroyed because we, as human beings, need to constantly grow and personally evolve. Change is a factor that encourages self-growth because it is during harsh times that we often find our true selves.

With that in mind, perhaps those of us who used to be christians were shaken out of our comfort zone (the faith) to find something greater and more expansive then what we had before. If that's true, then it's inevitable that you will be shaken out of your comfort zone to see something bigger and better then what you have now. It's only a matter of time. It's happened to me, it's happened to others, and so it will happen to you.

You're enthusiastic now, but time will help you shape into something better then you are now. You may be on fire for christ, but those who are on fire burn and scald anyone who comes near them. I used to be where you were, and six years later, I can only hope that you become more wise and more knowledged about things.

I still believe in God. Just not bible-god. The God I believe in wants us to help one another, peacefully co-exist with one another, and help make the planet a better place for everyone.

GodlessZone said...

If some deity is really healing cancer through Justin's prayers I have to wonder why he is wasting time posting messages here. I would think if he really believed that he'd be down at the hospitals praying with the terminal cases and curing them. If he really believes his own story why is he spending time here instead?

I have to wonder about the compassion of people who, they say, have brought about such miracles but who are not spending hours per day bringing relief to those dying. Or could it be that they don't really believe what they are peddling?

They say they believe but actions speak louder than words. I watch fake faith healers hold crusades where massive offerings are taken up but why not do something simple like go to the local hospital and heal the sick. Or if you really want to impress run down to the morgue and raise the dead.

As a former seminarian I can assure you there are no 500 Bible prophecies that were proven true in the last few years. Though I would love to see the list along with clear, obvious verses from the Bible where you can find the prophesy. They don't exist. They are forced onto verses after the fact but never before the fact.

Hellbound Alleee said...

May you some day regain your senses and moraliyy, and escape from this cruel and immoral belief system. Good luck to you, and remember: no matter what books say, you are still free.

boomSLANG said...

To Justine,

You may be "living".....but you're not "proof"...otherwise, I'm "living proof" that there IS NO "God".

Sincerely, boomSLANG.

Moving on---for any Deist who believes in a personal Deity..i.e..a supreme meta-physical "being"---a being interested in the affairs of human beings, well, I'd be interested to know how you know what this "God" actually "wants" of us/from us.....while providing evidence for this disclosure, of course. And to save time---NDE's and testimonies are not objective evidence.

(Disclaimer: I fully realize that this site isn't exclusively Atheist/Agnostic, yet, when such claims are made from Christians, we require proof from them, so I don't feel it unreasonable to ask when anyone else makes similar claims.)

south2003 said...

This kido is still wet behind the ears and prolly can’t piss straight….AND, he hears voices. Damn! Give him time…either he loses it mentally or come back to reality.

As far as cancer being healed, I guess he has never heard of “remission” Noticed he emphasizes on “MY prayers” which clearly shows a pompous, self-righteous person (well one should expect that from a brainwashed person). Then he goes on to self-project his shortcomings "(I myself was dealing weed for years, smoking 4 blunts a day, a pack of cigs a day, had an infinite supply of porn along with an addiction and had tried just abvout every drug on the market, was having sex left and right and didn't care less for life!)" as if we are doing the same. It’s a pity! He has absolutely no idea that lack of belief in Zeus does not lead one to self destruct.

If this was some kind of persuasion to join the cult, try again kido. I'm still and will remain an Atheist.

Anonymous said...

Isn't the mind a wonderful thing? It can make you believe what isn't there, it can also make you believe in yourself. (which you can latter atrubute to god) You saw him cure cancer? You do know that cancer can be cured don't you? by medical science. Lets get a bunch of cancer patients together. For 1/2 the group we will use the conventional therapy, for the others prayer. Only prayer! If we use meds on them they won't give the doctor credit only god. So, honestly, which group will get the best results?

Anonymous said...

ALRIGHTY THEN, OKAY great to talk to you! You sure its Christianity your involved with? Your life sounds almost like a Tom Cruise Scientology hippie cult. I think you may have been watching too much Star trek or somebody has really brainwashed you good. I'm not sure whats going on. I'm not a medical professional.

P.S.
Christianity is nothing but a dead end. Thousands of us can attest to that on this website. I really wish you and others would take the time and really do independent research and read all the ex-testimonies of former "saved" christians on this website instead of doing this drive-by evangelism crap. Good Luck with the big JC and don't go gettin raptured on us now ya hear!!!!

n/a said...

What Justin and all the other Christians with their various proofs never seem to realize is that if their proof was credible, documentable and able to withstand scrutiny they would have the greatest scientific discovery in the history of mankind, and they would probably convert a billion people to Christianity virtually overnight. Shouldn't producing some irrefutable evidence be their highest priority? They are describing an event that actually happened, right? And there are plenty of scientists who profess to being Christian and would no doubt love to see that proof, so they really can't complain about some scientific/atheistic bias against them. However no such proof has ever been produced despite the thousands of claims.

Anonymous said...

There are also plenty of people who have quit drugs and porn addiction because of Buhddism, or Islam, AA program etc. So you can't expect someone to believe in the christian God just because you don't smoke and look at porn anymore.

Anonymous said...

"And what land has God healed? Darfur? Indochina after the tsunamis? The ghetto down the street where people are shot each day? The middle east?"

Damn, so true.

Anonymous said...

This is one reason I'm very glad I never did drugs. Now I see how it can have a haluscinatory and psychotic effect on people, even after they stop doing it. Like many say here... trading one addiction for another.

georgespiggott said...

Justin, about the 500-prophecies-prove-Jesus thing. You Christians have it the wrong way round!
Jesus did not fulfil 500 prophecies. His story was CREATED FROM any verse in the Jewish sciptures which the Gospel writers discerned as "prophecy".
AND they got it wrong on many, many occasions.
e.g. Isaiah never said "virgin", this was an early mistranslation of "young woman".
And "he will be called a Nazarene" refers to a verse about "nazirites" (sect members).

So you see, it's US who are living proof that you don't have to live your life enslaved to superstition.

I highly recommend Earl Doherty's website which explains the creation of the Jesus story:
http://pages.ca.inter.net/~oblio/home.htm

Try reality. It is exhilarating!

Anonymous said...

Your opening statement;
At the age of 18, I have witnessed God firsthand! I wanted proof and I got proof! More than I could handle!

Proof suffient enough for you perhaps?

All we ask is where is your proof? In your head I suppose!

So we're supposed to take your proof that is in your head and believe what is in your head because you say it is true?

Is that it???

Anonymous said...

Hey Justin,
After reading your post I believe you when you say you have tried every drug.
Drugs are used by people who can't cope with problems or may have too many problems to deal with. Religion is just a substitute for drugs and reality.Both cause brain damage.
P.S we have plenty of time here so why don't you tell us about those 500 prophesies that have come true in the last decade?
You gave up porn? Dude have you lost your mind? Hell I'm gonna go wax my sled right now.

Nvrgoingbk said...

Uhm, Hello, don't you remember the verse in your Holy Babble where Jesus is warning his followers in the last day that if antichrists come saying "Look there he is" or "here he is" that we're not supposed to believe them? Wouldn't your picture of God or Jesus qualify as something we should steer clear of? Just a thought.

As for quitting drugs, porn, etc. I drank once, I quit cold-turkey. I snorted cocaine once; I quit cold-turkey. I smoked cigarettes once; I quit cold-turkey. I had alot of promiscuous sex once; I met my husband and waited two years for him completely celibate while he was long distance. I left Christianity and have never snorted another line of coke, have never smoked another cigarette and hate alcohol. As for sex, I have alot of hot monkey love with my husband now and don't intend to quit. Many people cite various motivation behind their decisions to quit self-destructive behavior. My husband, also an ex-Christian, was a pill head, a heavy drinker, and has tried every street drug around. He has never gone back.

You assume that one has to have a belief in God to be moral and make sound, responsible decisions or to keep one from making the wrong ones. How then do you explain the rampant fraud, sexual misconduct, killings, tortures, slavery and other deplorable acts committed in the name of your god since nearly the introduction of your religion? How do you account for all the lives changed around the world that have not subscribed to your same brand of religion? Are their transformations somehow more suspect than your own simply because they took another path?

Your zeal for your God is almost charming if I didn't know better. Sincerity is not an indication of "truth", however, and while you may be quite sincere, you can be sincerely wrong at the same time.

Anonymous said...

Jim Earl,
You sarcastically mentioned that Justin should test his faith by drinking poison, as noted in Mark 16. I'm glad you put the disclaimer that it will kill him, however, some Christians are so brainwashed they think snakes won't harm them too, also noted in Mark 16. Take a look at this article...it makes you shake your head with bewilderment.

http://www.lex18.com/Global/story.asp?S=5640726&nav=EQlp

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,228051,00.html

I can just hear the faithful affected by cognitive dissonance, saying "She wasn't a Real Christian(TM)."
http://www.learningandteaching.info/learning/dissonance.htm

Cheers

Anonymous said...

Justin,
I am a born again believer. I was google searching and I came across this site. I thought i'd give you a bit of Christian support. Keep witnessing, we have been called to be fishers of men as followers of Christ. As chris said, ignorance is still alive, but not in you. Ignorance is alive in the athiest.

To anyone who says the Bible is wrong....YOU are wrong. scientific discoveries made by man were prophisised in the Bible thousands of years before. for example, Stars produce sound - prophisised in Job 38:7 - 4000 years before man found out. There are loads more.

God Bless everyone who reads this message. Jesus loves YOU. He died so that YOU could have everlasting life. It is up to YOU to make the choice.

I hope to see YOU in Heaven.
I don't want to see anyone in Hell.

Anonymous said...

Hello, Andrew.

Well. Too bad Justin failed to respond to our veritable avalanche of criticism, but who can blame the lad, it must be pretty intimidating. But you see, if a young, inexperienced wolf ventures among the sheep, he soon discovers that a herd of sheep can be pretty intimidating if they all have a common goal.

Anyway. I have looked up the only bit of "evidence" you deigned to produce (Job 38:7) and it tells us "That day the morning stars cheered and the heavenly court rejoiced".

I assume that by stating "The Bible told us that stars produce sound before science found out" you are suggesting that
1) the book of Job is 4000 years old, which is patently untrue. Even assuming, as some indeed do, that Job is the oldest book in the Bible, it is at most about 3000 years old.
2) Stars produce sound. They don´t. Stars put out radiation on all electromagnetic frequencies, including radio, but they do not produce sound. Sound is air vibrations. There is, however, no air in space (Did you not know that?).
3)That this verse in Job is an actual, scientific explanation instead of, what seems just a little bit more likely, a poetic metaphor.

But, hey. You also stated, hopefully not just based on this, that the Bible is scientifically accurate. This is not so.
The Bible, among other things, claims the following;
* Earth was formed before the sun.
* All stars were created in a single day.
* All species of life forms were created in the space of three days. Humans were created both befpre and after all other animals.
* The first human birth occured approximately 6000 years ago.
* About 4300 years ago, the entire human population was reduced to three breeding couples, the males of which were brothers. Something similar happened to all other land-dwelling life forms.
* All human languages came into existence overnight because God was getting nervous.
* Approximately two million people left Egypt overnight, walked across the floor of the Red Sea and still took several months to cross a distance of about 250 miles. After that, these people travelled the same patch of desert for 40 years without leaving a trace - even in Egyptian records, despite the fact that a foreign people had ostensibly lived among them for 400 years.
* The Assyrian capital Nineveh converted to the Jewish religion overnight.
* A man worked miracles, including raising the dead, for about three years, gaining an impressive following of people who believed he might be the Messiah who would free them from the Romans. When he was executed, the sun went dark for three hours, there was an earthquake and several dead people rose from the grave and went into the city to preach.
None of these amazing facts have been written down by anybody at all, outside of two or three, and maybe even just one, of his most devoted followers, despite the tendency of Jews and Romans to take note of such things.

The Bible is not a very good source of information, Andrew.

Stick around. You might learn something, like "Better an open mind and a closed mouth."

webmdave said...

Andrew said, "Ignorance is alive in the athiest [sic].

Ironic.

Anonymous said...

I'm glad to see someone of faith sharing his experience with you unbelievers. Or are you?? I can see from reading your comments about the Bible that you really don't have a very good understanding of what it does say. You ridicule the Bible and those who believe, yet most of you believe in Evolution which is the ultimate fairy tale. So when you say you don't believe and try to define atheist in your pitiful ways I know you don't really know what an atheist is, the three categories of atheism, so how could you know what a Christian is?
Here is a simple test for you.

What makes a Christian a Christian?

I think for the mostpart, your answers will confirm what I just said.

Awaiting your replies,
R. Hoeppner

webmdave said...

RH:

I read this on your website: "I'm not talking about religion--I'm talking about a relationship and I'm here to declare it!"

Apparently (correct me if I've misunderstood) you consider Christianity to be a relationship as opposed to a religion.

Would you mind sharing the Bible verses you use to support that understanding? My Nave's Topical Bible gives me a few verses where religion is discussed, but the word relationship doesn't show up anywhere. Perhaps I'm using the wrong version.

Care to enlighten?

Roger O'Donnell said...

The empty can makes the most noise...

Love and kisses on the bottom,

Grandpa H

Anonymous said...

To Jim Earl,
Where does the bible say any person can drink poison and live?
I like that and want to use it.
Thanks

Anonymous said...

Try Mark 16:16 easy to remember!

16 He that beliveth and is bapisted shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

This covenant to believers as promised by Jesus.

south2003 said...

Yep, my bible says that too:

Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Drink up fundies!

Anonymous said...

"I myself was dealing weed for years, smoking 4 blunts a day, a pack of cigs a day, had an infinite supply of porn along with an addiction and had tried just abvout every drug on the market"

A few years of adulterated street drugs and i'd be supprised if you DIDN'T see jesus.
Trust me on this, i'm a social worker and I see people who've had fucked-up psychotic chemical visions every single day. Count yourself lucky that you still have enough sanity left to write this garbage, most dont.

Steven Bently said...

Prophesy revealed here today!

Andrew said; To anyone who says the Bible is wrong....YOU are wrong. scientific discoveries made by man were prophisised in the Bible thousands of years before. for example, Stars produce sound - prophisised in Job 38:7 - 4000 years before man found out. There are loads more.

KJV
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted joy!

Can anyone be in their right mind think that stars sing? And all the sons of God shouted joy!

Sons of God, you mean God had other sons? Beside God's only begotten son, Jesus the Christ????



8 Or who shuts up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?

9 When I made the cloud the garment therof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it.

10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors.

11 And said, Hitherto shall thou come, but no further; and here shall thy proud waves be stayed.

12 And on and on and on

13 You can here the same stuff at any loony bin.

Christians just aren't sane!

RH proves this!

muttmutt1978 said...

A. youre a bold faced liar

B. Jesus is only mentioned in christianity no other religion.

C. youre proof that christians dont have a brain in thier heads.

light a match i dare ya, im ready for some christian hopped up on coke or heroine to attack me.

Anonymous said...

dear R.Hoeppner...

what makes a person a Christian is a sincere belief in Jesus Christ as... someone special. Unfortunately, the exact role is the subject of contention. Was he a god, the son of a god, a very special man, was he created, was he eternal... the Christians are not of one mind about it.

You say we believe in evolution. You even spell it with a capital, as if it is a philosophy. It is not and we do not.

We believe evolution takes place, based on a mountain of evidence. And you call it "the ultimate fairytale". In my opinion, that ranks, in stupidity, with "I don´t know if the bear is asleep - wait, I´ll just poke him" and "I mist be using the wrong kind of hammer for these screws".

south2003 said...

RH,

The ridicules are well worth it. You know that Donkeys DO NOT talk, the earth is NOT flat, and there are NO virgin births or conception through a holy spook overshadowing a woman. Further more, a woman did NOT come from a man’s rib, right?

Here’s more ridicule: How ridiculous is the idea of having a “personal relationship” with a so-call dead man. To go even further, you share your dead man on a stick with every Tom, Dick, and Harry? No wonder you fundies are always in competition, pointing fingers at who is or is not a true Christian™, whose sect has the right message and who interprets the holly babble accordingly – it’s because you are all competing, hoping with all fingers crossed, that you will be in the number that makes it in – if you kiss Hank's ass properly, you won't burn for all eternity.

What’s so bizarre is viewing Sunday after Sunday wife beaters, child molesters and closet homosexuals damming the entire population to hell.
I lack belief, not out of fear or because some atheist's manifesto says so, no, because there is not one shred of evidence for any gods. You are just like us, an atheist. You have dismissed 7,999 gods but kept one. We have dismissed all. To further clarify, you are one god away from being a full blown atheist. It’s time to come out the close RH. Your god claims are no more credible that the rest.

What's a Christian? As far as I can see RH, you are not a true Christian™, really, you’re not. Until you have mastered what the bible mandated, then you are nothing but a wishy washy wannabe.

Anonymous said...

Wow! Three Beleivers on one post (counting our friend Justin, of course.)

As far as the woman in Kentucky that Passerby provided links to, she was an anomaly. Not because she lacked faith, but because those stupid snakes are as tame as reptiles can possibly be. It's not like they go out and catch wild cottonmouths before the services. We studied this sect in Anthropology and the best part was the documentary that showed the pastor feeding and bathing all the snakes before the service (he did this before every service, I guess God hates a dirty serpent...) I laughed out loud! Snakes that are handled, fed and pampered that much aren't going to be fazed by a little church service!

Anonymous said...

Justin... I'd also like a bag of that God-smoke.

Anonymous said...

God just put something on my heart tonight and im a prophet! Within 48 hours you will smoke a joint,,and masterbate to porn!!
Id bet my life on it!
Know why? because your a human being...just like the rest of us!
Ive said some silly things like you did! My only advice to you is that you will never stop masterbating....never...so try not to feel guilty when all this hype meets reality!

J. C. Samuelson said...

"I'm glad to see someone of faith sharing his experience with you unbelievers. Or are you?? I can see from reading your comments about the Bible that you really don't have a very good understanding of what it does say. You ridicule the Bible and those who believe, yet most of you believe in Evolution which is the ultimate fairy tale. So when you say you don't believe and try to define atheist in your pitiful ways I know you don't really know what an atheist is, the three categories of atheism, so how could you know what a Christian is?
Here is a simple test for you.

What makes a Christian a Christian?

I think for the mostpart, your answers will confirm what I just said.

Awaiting your replies,
R. Hoeppner"


Mr. Hoeppner,

With all due respect your post makes no sense. First, you are siding with someone who making claims that, even as a Christian, you would do well to be skeptical of. This is someone who claims to actually hear God's voice; not gentle prodding or the 'movement of the Holy Spirit,' but an actual voice in his head.

Second, you question whether we are unbelievers. Well, there's no doubt at all that most of us here do not believe in Christianity, that's certain. And no, not everyone here is an atheist, but it's asinine to say that an atheist doesn't know what atheism is. If I asserted that Christians don't know what Christianity is, would you not consider that an absurd statement?

As for evolution, you are misinformed. Greatly so, if your blog is any indication. I doubt you're interested, but for the sake of being thorough I'll provide for you two links. The first is to the American Scientific Affiliation. Their statement of faith is as follows:

"The American Scientific Affiliation (ASA) is a fellowship of men and women in science and disciplines that relate to science who share a common fidelity to the Word of God and a commitment to integrity in the practice of science. In matters of science and Christian faith, we offer Christian scholarship, education, fellowship and service to ASA members, churches, educational institutions, the scientific community, and society."

In particular, their section concerning evolution might be of interest to you.

The other link is to a brief outline of the science surrounding evolution. This is one I doubt you'll give any credence to, but here's hoping. See Understanding Evolution.

On your blog you list at least two examples of scientific hoaxes that, as a Creationist, you believe shows the fairy tale nature of evolution. Two questions:

1. Did you realize that every scientific hoax ever perpetrated was uncovered by - other scientists? It is part of the self-corrective and provisional nature of the scientific endeavor that hoaxes, flawed hypotheses & theories, and poor methodology are exposed by other scientists, not religious believers.

2. Did you know that the number of hoaxes perpetrated are an infinitesimal quantity when compared with the bulk of confirmed evidence? That's right. Even acknowledging these hoaxes as valid complaints, the theory of evolution is still supported by an overwhelming amount of evidence. So much so that even Creationists have had to acknowledge that among species change does occur over time. Guess what evolution is? Change over time.

Back to atheism...

Frankly, your pride in yourself at defining atheism on your blog is overblown. It really doesn't matter how atheists define themselves, or how you think they should be classified any more than it matters how Christians define themselves or how we classify them. Atheism under any of those categories rejects the premises of religion, period.

As for your question, what makes a Christian a Christian, it depends on who you ask. We get all varieties in here, each claiming to be True Christians™. As you define it, chances are it means someone who believes the Bible is the literal, inerrant word of God given to mankind, and who accepts that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin and is the promised Lord and Saviour who was crucified, died, and was buried, but on the third day rose from the dead and is now seated at the right-hand of God. There may be other particulars of lesser importance to your particular sect, but those are pretty much the basics I remember from my fundie days.

At any rate, I'm done rambling. Have a nice day, all.

J. C. Samuelson said...

By the way, Mr. Hoeppner, I find it amusing that out of all the possible complaints you might've made concerning Islam, you cited "the lack of tolerance for any belief but their own." While certainly a legitimate complaint, it's amusing because I rather suspect that you aren't very tolerant yourself, when it comes to beliefs other than your own.

After all, God does not ask you to be tolerant, does he?

Anonymous said...

Anony-jerk Fundie posted at 7:52 PM on 11/8/06 that “god put something on my heart”. Was that out-patient surgery? Did it interfere with the flow of blood? Where did god get it to fit? Can it be removed?

“I’m a prophet…” I’m the planet Mars.

“Within 48 hours you will smoke a joint, and masterbate (sic) to porn” Bzzzzzt! WRONG. None around my house, Panama Red or Porn!

“I’ll bet my life on it” Then you lose. I will be searching the newspaper for your obituary.

With apologies to Johnny Paycheck… “Take yer god and shove’m, I ain’t b’lievin’ him no more…!

Anonymous said...

You sound like me back in '83 when I was converted.

I'm glad to tell you that it was YOU who stopped all that destructive behavior,..NOT GAUD!

You are brainwashed and mentally ill.Please get some secular help NOW! Don't wait 20 yrs. like I did.
You will regret wasting your young adulthood in the meaningless activities of church life,...trust me! "REPENT NOW AND FORSAKE THE FALSE IDOL YOU HAVE ERECTED,..REPENT, OR SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES"!(in the name of science),...amen!

J. C. Samuelson said...

warnepiece,

I believe that anonymous poster was making a joke. Take another look.

Anonymous said...

J. C. Samuelson,

You are right. I stand corrected. It had to have been a joke. When I initially read it, with all the typos, I assumed it was a fundie fly-by post.

My mistake.

Anonymous said...

Justin...your Living proof alright. Your living proof, just like ALL those morons in my
X-church. They are living proof that they are sooooo evil and sad that after they KICK me out, they continue to make prank phone calls to me a year later. Only one thing I have over "GOD GIVEN PROOF" is that "CINGULAR" also has PROOF...of all the numbers and who they belong to!!!!!

So much for GRACE AND LOVE!

Anonymous said...

Hi I just found this site today. I am a 39 year old mom of 2. I just want to say that when I read and hear all the crap that fundies believe it makes me scared that I brought kids into such a world full of lunatics.

Anonymous said...

Justine,

To experience your God first hand again how about trying this:

1. Put a coke can in front of you on a stable desk.
2. Pray to your lord. Ask him to move this can 1 inch just to show his love for you.

For someone who part the Red sea this shouldn't be much trouble.

Anonymous said...

Well it's good to be back and read all your posts. Webmaster, thanks for checking out my blog. You seemed to get stuck on my statement of a religion vs relation and wanted to see some biblical evidence of that. How about the phrase that opens the Lord's Prayer: Our Father...? How about Jesus' statement about being 'born again' in John 3?
Amazingy enough I didn't see anyone tell me what makes one a Christian but I did see several who could define what a Christian does, eventhough there was nothing defining in any of those statements.
About me capitalizing the words evolution and atheist you're right, I'll check those. About evolution--I know that the only thing that evolves is the theory itself. I know that mutation has always been observed to be deliterious to a specie leaving adaptation and natural selection as the only possible means of change, and those aren't enough to explain it. I also know that species appear abruptly and that many species appeared all at once in the Cambrian period. It's also true that when Johnson found Lucy that it came just in time because his grant money was about to run out. Finally I would like to quote a great scientist, Sir Isaac Newton: On the Bible:
"I have a fundamental belief in the Bible as the Word of God, written by men who were inspired. I study the Bible daily."

"There are more sure marks of authenticity in the Bible than in any profane history."

On atheism:
"Atheism is so senseless. When I look at the solar system. I see the earth at the right distance from the sun to receive the proper amounts of heat and light. This did not happen by chance."

I'm in pretty good company!

Anonymous said...

To SAMUELSON:
RE: Tolerance:
All you have to do is look at the disasters that happened around the world to see dozens of Christian based organizations rushing aid to those who are suffering. Christians helped and are still helping Moslems, Hindu's and Buddhists that were hit by the tsunami and the big earthquake in Pakistan. Katrina, the same thing! They didn't pre qualify people based on their religion or lack thereof. But wait, Where were the Atheists when Katrina hit? Well they were conspicuous by their absence!
Another thing, Christians are being killed, they aren't killing. Check it out for yourself.

webmdave said...

Hmm. Our Father and being born again explains why today's Christians say Christianity is not a religion but instead it is a relationship.

Funny, James, Jesus' brother, thought differently:

James 1:26 -- If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. 27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

I guess Jesus' brother didn't understand that it was a relationship that Jesus was looking for.

Oh, and RH, according to Jesus' sibling here, the leader of the little band of Jewish post-Jesus cultists, Christians are absolutely defined by what they do.

webmdave said...

And RH, do you really want to claim Newton as your homeboy? I mean, he was anti-Trinitarian! He was also an alchemist! Do you reject the Trinity, and do you believe in alchemy? Newton held those positions, so you'd be in good company.

You should really read up on your heroes before claiming them as your supporters. I mean, Mohammad thought the OT was the Word of God too! Do you want to claim him as your homeboy? Click here.

n/a said...

R Hoeppner wrote:

I know that mutation has always been observed to be deliterious to a specie...

That is incorrect, one only has to look at the development of drug resistant bacteria.

I also know that species appear abruptly and that many species appeared all at once in the Cambrian period

The Cambrian explosion was at least 5-10 million years long, so "all at once" is a substantial length of time.

It's also true that when Johnson found Lucy that it came just in time because his grant money was about to run out.

Even if that is true it has no effect on the scientific merit of his discovery.

Anonymous said...

If you really did all the dope you say you did, it isn't God, it's called a flashback!

Audie said...

Actually, Richard Leaky found Lucy.

Anonymous said...

Hey guys, hope my two cents is worth a shilling here.

Well I have to say that, there’s no discernable proof that God is real other than a 2,000+ year old Text that says he is real. Not to mention there are 4 accounts in that text that all contradict each other on one account or another. Back when that was written, I believe the Vikings were in the middle east branching out and pillaging everything and anything, and I believe that they just wanted a God that was ruthless and punished those who punished others. We call those kind of guys Superheroes now, but back then it was Jehova, or God, or invisible angry man in the sky, whatever your flavor is. And when we look at it that way, you can say that lying to your children is okay because it takes the bite out of the venom. When you can look at it in the mindset of “These people are taking our livelihoods and our lives, but I will go to a paradise in the sky forever and they will be punished”, you can die with a sense of dignity; especially for those of us who are powerless.

When we were young, we were afraid of the dark for no reason other than it made us feel alone and everything felt alien. We then got our parents, for those of us fortunate enough to have those people in our lives, to put a nightlight in our dark room. The nightlight signified the protection of our parents, the protection of the light in the dark. (You can obviously see what I’m trying to point out here, and the obvious similarities.) Let me tell you, you don’t need to fear the dark anymore, their may not be a God, but there is You. You who do not need to be saved, for You can save Yourself. You who can unite a group, large or small, together in a unification of love, without the precepts of a God butting in and saying that he did this. You did this. Your good works are Your own. You don’t need a God to tell You that giving food to your fellow man is a good thing, You can feel that. Emotions are what tie Us together, and they may be chemical reactions in Our brain, but they are Ours. God didn’t put our morality in Us, nor does He make Us moral, We make ourselves moral.

And as for the story of Job (pronounced Joe-b, rhymes with Globe) it is accounted at the end of the story that he gives up in his faith of God. He starts to ask questions to the townsfolk, “How can God be real when he took my wife away from me, and I believed in him all along.” The only reason that he got back double was because God Appeared before him after Job stood in a field and screamed to the heavens “If you are real, the only way I’ll believe in you is if you show your face!” (which I’m sure all of us have at one point or another, whether you believe or not). But here’s where it stops being story, and starts being word of God: God actually shows up, (that at least makes it God 1 - Humans - 193841098143 right?) And the only reason that he even gets back is because he says “I am ashamed of what I have said, but now I know of your glory for you have appeared before me.” So in effect, he chickens out because God gets his Holy Punk on. So now, Job (which I believe was edited but that’s a whole other discussion) stops being a story of faith and becomes a story of repentance and the rewards of such a practice…. Weak.

Anyway, I don’t believe God exists, and even if he does/doesn’t, please know that I at least love you and seek no harm unto you or anyone you are lovingly associated with. All your enemies can burn, not like in hell, because I don’t believe that place is real either, but with gasoline and a blowtorch…. and that stuff is real.

Anonymous said...

Justin,

I'm one of those ex-Christians you refer to, who had something bad happen to them and thought, why me? I finally found my answer. It's because I put everything I had into nothing, into God. Your use of Job as an example is interesting. IF, and I do mean if, God was just toying with me to see how far he could push me, then I want no part of him, or any eternal life that he offers. A God who would do such things is not warm, loving, friendly, nor does he have any other qualities that would make me choose to associate with him. I'd much rather simply return to the earth as absolutely nothing, knowing absolutely nothing, feeling absolutely nothing.

That said, I'm glad that you succeeded in turning you life around. You feel that this was a very important change for you, and I wish you the best.

Snow

J. C. Samuelson said...

"Amazingy enough I didn't see anyone tell me what makes one a Christian but I did see several who could define what a Christian does, eventhough there was nothing defining in any of those statements."

You may have preferred another answer, such as one who is born again in Christ and has a relationship with God, but really it doesn't matter. Who you consider to be Christian and who my Methodist, Baptist, and Mennonite neighbors consider to be Christian generally differ on several points.

As for Christian as a definition, here you go:

ADJECTIVE: 1. Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus. 2. Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings. 3. Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike. 4. Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents. 5. Showing a loving concern for others; humane.
NOUN: 1. One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus. 2. One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus.
(from the American Heritage Dictionary)

Point being that there's a wide diversity of opinion on what constitutes Christian living, or even adopting/assigning "Christian" as a descriptive label. If you're trying to prove something, perhaps you should be more explicit.

"About evolution--I know that the only thing that evolves is the theory itself."

I can certainly appreciate the appeal of the creation myth. After all, it seems to give solid answers to deep questions about our origins. However, that is not where the evidence leads. Indeed, there is no positive evidence whatsoever for creationism. Even if there was only one shred of empirical evidence for evolution (there is a great deal more), it would surpass creationism in this regard. And it does. I really recommend reading the materials on the ASA site I linked you to as a start. I'm not trying to trick you if that's what you're thinking.

If nothing else, read this essay. It's about St. Augustine's literal view of Genesis 1-3. It is faith-friendly, and it seems Augustine had some great advice for Christians of all ages (and eras).

By the way, all scientific theories are provisional. The fact that they undergo changes shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Would it shock you, Mr. Hoeppner, to learn that the 'law' of gravity is also 'just' a theory? In other words, should better evidence be found someday that refutes aspects of the theory of gravity, then the theory will be revised. There's nothing to fear here, because what it means is that science is predicated on evidence - and we should adopt a similar attitude.

While we're on the topic of evolution, have you considered the implications of the story of Noah's Ark for Christians who today reject evolution, such as yourself? There are many problems with the flood story (marsupials and arctic creatures, and the problems of breeding, feeding, and so on) but those aren't what I'm talking about. According to your Bible, about 4500 years or so ago the population of the Earth was wiped out with the exception of 8 people - Noah, his wife, his sons (3) and their wives (3)? All of them of Middle Eastern descent. Yet today's racial diversity exists. Though the time frame is far too short for these radical changes, what process exists apart from evolution that can explain this diversity? Keep in mind that saying "God did it" has no support whatsoever, biblically or scientifically.

"It's also true that when Johnson found Lucy that it came just in time because his grant money was about to run out."

It was Richard Leakey, and does it matter when it was found? Would the find have made any difference to you had it occurred at the beginning? The middle? I rather suspect it wouldn't. So, rather than suggesting some impropriety on the part of the scientist (for which there is no cause or evidence), why don't you find something wrong with the find itself? Perhaps a Christian paleoanthropologist who can provide some educated and informed criticisms of Lucy could help you there. There is nothing quite as devastating to a theory or an historic find than evidentiary refutation.

"Finally I would like to quote a great scientist, Sir Isaac Newton..."

I can do you one better - Darwin left the Galapagos Islands a creationist. He was deeply troubled about the implications of his findings, but he could not deny them purely on the basis of his faith. That, sir, is integrity.

"There are more sure marks of authenticity in the Bible than in any profane history."

Newton was a scientist, not an authority on biblical history. The average lay person today knows as much or more than Newton did in this regard. But as the WM pointed out he was also interested in alchemy, a long-rejected method of magical study, and an anti-trinitarian.

"All you have to do is look at the disasters that happened around the world to see dozens of Christian based organizations rushing aid to...Moslems, Hindu's and Buddhists that were hit by the tsunami and the big earthquake in Pakistan. Katrina, the same thing! They didn't pre qualify people based on their religion or lack thereof."

It's not at all surprising that they didn't discriminate in their aid to those in need. First, because the people who are part of those organizations are compassionate people. Second, because it's a great chance to evangelize by example. However, have you thought about the implications?

If they are only doing it because they are Christians, then the implication is that they would not feel compassion or even be good people without the Bible. That's kind of a back-handed compliment, don't you think? It's also myopic, given that as human beings we all (with some few exceptions, such as sociopaths) feel compassion, love, and so on regardless of which faith we subscribe to (or don't).

"But wait, Where were the Atheists when Katrina hit? Well they were conspicuous by their absence!"

Well, first off perhaps their absence seems conspicuous because atheists atheists and agnostics who are moved by their compassionate feelings tend to work for or contribute to secular organizations that aren't explicitly atheist. Heck, some might even contribute to or work for Christian aid organizations when the need arises because our first priority is as human beings, not representatives of any particular ideology. There are hundreds of secular-oriented non-profits who perform the same services as Christian charities. However, I'll freely admit that they aren't as well established in most cases. But then, some of that has to do with funding.

Christian aid groups are favored by the government, particularly since Bush came to power. The Faith-based Initiative has effectively given government sanction (through tax breaks and looser compliance regulations) to religious non-profits. While this may be a good thing from the perspective of these organizations, and will help them give aid where necessary, it does put secular non-profits as a serious disadvantage.

Having said all that, American Atheists are one non-religious/secular organization that is explicitly atheist that was among the many non-profits involved in Katrina aid.

"...Christians are being killed, they aren't killing..."

Please, don't get me started on that. The bottom line is that all dogma, particularly religious dogma, is divisive and inherently prone to violence. The historical record as well as modern statistics and demographics bears this out. The fact that modern Christians do not generally fly planes into buildings or blow themselves up in the midst of crowds is not an argument for the validity of their faith. It is a testament to the influence of modernism on Christian theology, nothing more.

People have become more reasonable in the years since Christianity's birth not because of that faith, but because they have become better educated and discerning. Indeed, had it not become so we might have Christian extremists following Deut. 13:6-20 literally, or meting out the death sentence to their disobedient children, adulterers, and homosexuals. Rape victims would be forced to marry their rapists, women would still be subservient; good grief man, the Bible is just as bad as the Koran! Thank goodness no one takes those parts seriously anymore. At least, not that anyone admits.

Anonymous said...

JCS: I want to clear up some things for you:

What Christians do does not necessarily define what Christians are. For example, they pray. So does every other religion. They believe. So does the devil. Compassion, faith and love are not unique to Christians and as many x-christians in your godless world will attest they've experienced some who claim to be Christians but don't manifest such positive attributes as I've listed above.
A Christian is someone who has invited Jesus Christ into their life as Savior and Lord.
The relationship is being born of the Spirit into the family of God:
(John 1:12, 13.)

The next thing I want to clear up is who exactly found Lucy?
I've always heard it was the Leakey's as you said, but was it? Check it out. Lucy: The Beginnings of Humankind, by Donald C. Johanson
I think you are mistaking but I will gladly accept your apology.

Now maybe I owe you one. In regard to the absence of atheist organizations during the Katrina disaster, I was referring to a widely publicized article from the 'UK Guardian' by Roy Hattersly,a (referred to as an outspoken atheist)columnist who said with regard to Katrina relief - "Notable by their absence," he says, were "teams from rationalist societies, free thinkers' clubs, and atheists' associations—the sort of people who scoff at religion's intellectual absurdity." According to Hattersley, it is an unavoidable conclusion that Christians "are the people most likely to take the risks and make the sacrifices involved in helping others."
- Roy Hattersley,
"Faith Does Breed Charity," Guardian.co.uk(9-12-05);

JCS-After reading the references you gave me I see that atheists did help out. (Darn! I should have known better than to believe an atheist).-jk

WEBMASTER: I do like to consider Isaac Newton as my 'homeboy.' It doesn't matter that he didn't accept the trinitarian view-I'm sure by now he realizes his error. I actually attended a non-trinitarian Bible college in San Antonio, Texas. I had several good hot debates before I was unceremoniously invited to leave.

Muttmutt: "Jesus is only mentioned in christianity no other religion."

Wrong. Try Islam for one.

jt said:
Christianity is nothing but a dead end. Thousands of us can attest to that on this website. I really wish you and others would take the time and really do independent research and read all the ex-testimonies of former "saved" christians on this website instead of doing this drive-by evangelism crap.

jt, I won't even dignify your ludicrous claim. I've got you beat on the numbers game! Oh and sometimes I do research, which is what brought me to atheist websites in the firstplace.

SOUTH2003: "Here’s more ridicule: How ridiculous is the idea of having a “personal relationship” with a so-call dead man."

Actually South2003, Jesus Christ is risen from the dead as witnessed by as many as 500 people. That's the wole point of my belief. "He is risen!" You know, the good old Easter message?

Anonymous said...

RH: "A Christian is someone who has invited Jesus Christ into their life as Savior and Lord.
The relationship is being born of the Spirit into the family of God:
(John 1:12, 13.)"

Lets see if we should trust your bible... or you for that matter, to provide anything worthy of merit. You cite, John 1:12, 13...

John 1:12 - But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:"

How many sons does God have?

God has only one son (Jesus).

He that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. -- John 3:18

God sent his only begotten son into the world. -- 1 John 4:9

Adam was also God's son.

Adam, which was the son of God. Luke 3:38

Some of God's sons had sex with women producing a race of giants.

That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. ... There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them. -- Genesis 6:2-4

Satan and his companions were sons of God.

The sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them. Job 1:6

Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. -- Job 2:1

God's sons were present when the universe was created.

Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? -- Job 38:6-7

Christians are God's sons.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God. -- John 1:12

RH: "A Christian is someone who has invited Jesus Christ into their life as Savior and Lord.
The relationship is being born of the Spirit into the family of God:
(John 1:12, 13.)"

RH, is your god a liar? Perhaps, he didn't write the bible? Please, tell me this was the reason you were booted out of school... Trinity? Saint Mary's? Lady of the Lake? I can see their point.

Anonymous said...

RH: "I won't even dignify your ludicrous claim. I've got you beat on the numbers game! Oh and sometimes I do research, which is what brought me to atheist websites in the firstplace."

Obviously, the number of thinkers aren't on your side, vis-a-vie your ignorance on this website, and not on a christian site. Then again, not much need for a christian to research, an invisible authority.

boomSLANG said...

Actually South2003, Jesus Christ is risen from the dead as witnessed by as many as 500 people. That's the wole point of my belief. "He is risen!" You know, the good old Easter message?

So, Jesus is alive then, right? Okay...pardon my French, BUT WHERE THE F%CK IS HE? lol! Yoo hoo? APB for Mr. Christ?...?..? Seriously, though....where is the resurrected Jesus? In your "heart"? Which chamber?....the upper ventricle? In the clouds?...in a bag of chips? Where?

Sam: Then again, not much need for a christian to research, an invisible authority.

The invisible and the non-existant look a lot alike ; )

Anonymous said...

RH: "Jesus Christ is risen from the dead as witnessed by as many as 500 people. That's the wole point of my belief. "He is risen!" You know, the good old Easter message?"

Matthew 28:17 - "And when they saw him,they worshipped him: but some doubted."

"But some doubted"

Even some of the characters/apostles doubted that the allegedly risen Christ was really Jesus. Well if they weren't sure, how could we ever be?

Oh, I know, RH has researched it, that makes sense.

Speaking of the resurrection, and the handicapped "god", who needed angel support to move a boulder... There were supposedly women at the tomb, whom did they see?

Who did the women see at the tomb?

An angel
Matthew 28:2 - And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.

A young man
Mark 16:5 - And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.

Two men
Luke 24:4 - And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments.

Two angels
John 20:12 - And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.

Anonymous said...

RH: "I do like to consider Isaac Newton as my 'homeboy.' It doesn't matter that he didn't accept the trinitarian view-I'm sure by now he realizes his error."

Probably as sure, as you are that the easter message is about the ressurection of some dude named Hey-Zeus (Jesus).

Easter:

"The name "Easter" originated with the names of an ancient Goddess and God. The Venerable Bede, (672-735 CE.) a Christian scholar, first asserted in his book De Ratione Temporum that Easter was named after Eostre (a.k.a. Eastre). She was the Great Mother Goddess of the Saxon people in Northern Europe. Similarly, the "Teutonic dawn goddess of fertility [was] known variously as Ostare, Ostara, Ostern, Eostra, Eostre, Eostur, Eastra, Eastur, Austron and Ausos." 1 Her name was derived from the ancient word for spring: "eastre."

Yep, it'a all about pleasure, and fertility. Now, how did Hey-Zeus get stuck with that bumper sticker. Probably, the same reason Hey-Zeus' name is placed in the fertility crack of an ancient symbollized vagina.

Ichthys - "The fish is also a central element in other stories, including the Goddess of Ephesus (who has a fish amulet covering her genital region), as well as the tale of the fish that swallowed the penis of Osiris, and was also considered a symbol of the vulva of Isis."

Hey RH, perhaps, you too could one day be venerated by someone placing your name in the middle of an anal symbol, and you could be the cousin of Jesus.

Anonymous said...

RH: "The next thing I want to clear up is who exactly found Lucy? I've always heard it was the Leakey's as you said, but was it? Check it out. Lucy: The Beginnings of Humankind, by Donald C. Johanson I think you are mistaking but I will gladly accept your apology."

"Lucy (...) is the common name of AL 288-1, the first Australopithecus afarensis skeleton ever discovered. It was discovered on November 30, 1974 by Donald Johanson, Maurice Taieb, Yves Coppens and Tim White in the Middle Awash of Ethiopia's Afar Depression."

Actually, it wasn't just Donald C. Johanson...

RH: "I think you are mistaking"

Your thinking was 25% accurate, but... that's expected. You get a religious thinking discount, all you need is faith, no thinking required.

Anonymous said...

RH said "...Jesus Christ is risen from the dead as witnessed by as many as 500 people."

And that assertion is based solely on Paul's first letter to the Corinthians, right? Here are some more questions for you regarding this particular article of faith:

1) What were the names of those people?

2) What, exactly, did they see, when, and under what circumstances?

3) What did they infer from what they "saw", if anything?

4) How did Paul come to know of them or what they saw?

5) Why do none of the gospel writers cite this amazing fact?

Steven Bently said...

To resolve all doubt!

Jesus's physical body was gone. Why? If it is the soul that rises to Heaven, the tomb needed not to be opened.

But the tomb was OPENED!!! WHY???
Because Jesus walked out, thats why, and millions have fallen for the JESUS HOAX!!!!

There was no need for the tomb to be opened, but yes, it was witnessed by many, the tomb was open. His physical body did not rise to Heaven according to scripture the Body does not rise, it's the soul that rises.

Jesus's physical body should have still been in the tomb, but it was gone!!! Why??? Because Jesus walked out, or it was carried out, thats why?

The Bible, the biggest hoax ever sold!!!

Anonymous said...

RH: "After reading the references you gave me I see that atheists did help out.

So much for your non-prejudiced point of view, and research ability... do you believe everything you read without cross-referencing? On that point, how do you cross-reference the bible? Conjur up a seance, and speak to invisible entities?

Anonymous said...

Hi Bentley,

I think you inadvertently give too much credence to the Gospels. Paul's epistles make no mention of an empty tomb, and nary a mention of an earthly Jesus. I think it quite likely that the entire "history" of an earthly Jesus was a mythical invention that came long after the belief in a purely "spiritual" Jesus (which would have been in line with other mystical beliefs of the time). Hence, I always ask "What tomb?" before addressing whether it was empty or not or what that implies. Isn't it odd that there is no mention at all of the tomb, or to Calvary, or to Galilee, or to Pontius Pilate, or to a trial, or to the sermon on the mount, or to the nativity until the gospels came along? Maybe Paul thought all those details were unimportant. Or maybe they were just not invented yet. My bet is on the latter. Just some food for thought.

Anonymous said...

Andrew: "I am a born again believer."

I suppose, you weren't born properly the first time?

A "true" believer? RH- believes you never really accepted christ into your heart, as that would have made you a "true" christian per the contradictory book of John. How's it feel to be skim-christian? How do you know, you don't need to be re-re-born? Is that like "reincarnation"?

Anonymous said...

Andrew: "I hope to see YOU in Heaven. I don't want to see anyone in Hell."

How would you know anyone here if you saw them, in heaven or hell? Doh!

Steven Bently said...

Addressed to Jim Arvo only.

What I'm basing my comment on is, the presumption of what is presumed by the christian reader, henceforth the christian intends to take the whole Bible literally and considers it all to be absolute truth, no matter who wrote the article and at what time later on.

The works of Paul perhaps?

Luke 24:2 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.

3 And they found not the body of Jesus.

4 And it came to pass as they were much perplexed thereabout behold two men stood by them in shining garments.

5 And as they were afraid and bowed down their face to the earth, they said unto them , Why seek ye the living among the dead?

6 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee.

7 Saying, The son of man must be delivered unto the hands of sinful men, and be crucified and the third day and rise again.

8 And they remembered his words.

9 And returned from the sepulchre, and told all things unto the eleven and to all the rest.

10 It was Mary Mag-da-lene, and Jo-an-na and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things to the apostles.

11 And their words seemed as idle tales, and they believed them not.

12 Then arose Peter and ran into the sepulchre and stooping down, he beheld the linen clothes laid by themselves and departed wondering in himself at which was come to pass.

Then John 20: 1-13

13 And they say unto her,(Mary Magdalene) Woman why weepth thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they they laid him.

It seemed like a lot of confusion and unbelief going on there at the time.

My comments are based upon the literal interpretation as the reader is suppose to take the Bible as 100% literal truth, without question, as to who wrote what which and where or when.

I do not know any Christians that seeks reference outside of the Bible to see who wrote which gospel.

The Christian responce is "The Bible says it, I beleive it, that settles it."

So I use what is written in the Bible to show that, what is written is counter to what is supposed to be believed.

I myself do not personally care who wrote what where and when either, I'm commenting on what I see to be written down myself in the KJV Bible.

To the Christian, to question the Bible and it's contents, is a terrible deadly sin. To seek outside reference as to who wrote, what, which, where and when, would be to question the veracity of the Bible another unforgivable deadly sin.

I also think it's ironic that Mark's-Luke's-John's, etc. names is on the top of the page, but their name is not mentioned anywhere in the scriptures that they supposedly wrote, you would think that they would have included themselves as to being there as a first hand witness account, writing down as the events happened, including themselves as being there watching as the supposedly most incredible history that ever occured was taking place,(and being ordained by God)could this have been forgotten or neglected by Paul perhaps? Maybe Paul's decision to write the gospels some 60 or 70 years or more later, he had a great lapse of memory. How can anyone test the veracity of inspired literature??

I would also imagine that Paul divided the gospels up to look like other authors wrote different parts to make him look like it wasn't just "him" that made the whole story up.

Inspired writings will always leave the doors open as to whence it came and from whom and at what time and what the motivational purpose was intended for the reader to perceive.

I agree that, I think the whole thing is (was) a sham, but I must show as much as I can how the gospels do not add up to their account by using what was written and showing the potential Christian that what was written could not possibly be what they want to read into the scriptures and come out as being true.

Because what is written does not add up to what is written, and to what the reader is supposed to believe or the writer's intention was for the reader to believe.

Either way, the writer's intention was not for one to question what was wrote, but it was intended for the reader believe it was all true, without question.

I hope that makes sense, if not, I apologize.

But I do defend my stance, as I perceive it was written as false also, but showing a fatal flaw against it's own veracity.

I too, think the gospels were totally invented by a Paul or someone back then, and I question the sanity of a Paul, from my perspective,(if a Paul ever existed himself) and anyone else that may have taken part of the gospels. I also question the sanity of anyone willing to believe in such ridiculous nonsense in this modern age.

But as I surmise, considering two thousand years ago, how could you motivate the down-trodden (or many down-trodden and depressed people) without any hope or feelings of self-worth for the future without building them up with a feeling of superiority and self-worth for free, without investing a cent, just on the (divinely inspired) written word?

Just look at how many Christians go around these days with their self-righteous chest all puffed out!!!...lol

What greater pick-me-up tale (a philosophy) could motivate a people that had no hope or future, all they could see back then was death and rotten corpses and diseases and filth and really no real reason to live. I would imagine that is the only reason anyone would have attempted to make up such tremendous lie was to give people atleast a false hope not to kill themselves, but it got out of hand and it was not intended for people to believe in this day and age, perhaps it was intended to get them through their deluge of dispair.

Perhaps if they had the luxury of modern conveniences and personal wealth and scientific technologies and discoveries as we, then they may have quickly dismised the tales as a total falsehood.

But a lot of people want to believe the Bible is true more than anything, why?

Mainly from fear, just in case it happens to be true, no other reason, especially the burning in hell part, IMO. TC

Anonymous said...

Hi Bentley,

I agree with you that there are many internal inconsistencies in the Bible, and those alone should cast much doubt on it if not undermine its purported authority altogether. And I also agree that there are some fundamentalists who simply refuse to acknowledge any extra-Biblical information, so pointing out internal inconsistencies is about the only way to engage them in dialog. My only point was that one should be wary of seeming to accept the stories at face value, as it grants far too much. The empty tomb is an excellent example. Yes, one can dive into the pretend world of the gospels and show that it makes little sense *even* from that perspective. On the other hand, one can step back, argue that it is a mythical invention, and refuse to pretend otherwise. But there is also something of a compromise between these two extremes, which is to "stipulate" certain events for the sake of argument (e.g. the empty tomb), but not lose sight of the fact that those events are thus far lacking credible evidence (e.g. the existence of the tomb is not proven by the word of a unknown evangelist writing decades after the supposed event). Often times this line of argument is somewhat less effective than banging your head against the wall, but I think there is something to be said for keeping one foot firmly planted in reality while arguing about the goings-on in a pretend world. It's a reminder that we are reading invented and/or heavily redacted dialog among characters who may or may not have actually existed. I hope you see my point.

Steven Bently said...

Hi Jim and thank you for your responce! I guess I'm playing Devil's advisary with the Christians that happen to swing by.

Not very many of my posts are directed to, nor for the benefit of the regular ex-tains that post on here, I would have very little trouble trying to convence them of how foolish the Bible is.

I'm just trying to make the fundies think outside the bun (the box...lol)

Can you imagine what a task that has been and still is? Of course you can!

The thing is that, it was the "word" either the writen "word" or the spoken "word" that they(the christians and non-xtains) trusted as being the truth in order to accept the indoctrination in the first place.

Now we, you and I, have this undaunting task of trying to reverse the accepted indoctrination, and the only weapon we have at our disposal is, guess what? "WORDS" now our words seem to have very little merrit, because the fundy thinks because solely of their accepted and trusted indoctrination that the Bible holds the Key to all knowledge and wisdom, past, future and present.

As you can see, this task will take all our lives with probabaly very little results, and it's so sad and depressing to me to see how an old ancient book of mythology can control so many people's way of thinking and influence the very way that they think and live.

I know that I myself should be happy and celebrate in the fact that I too could have fallen for the nonsense and still be locked up mentally trying to please Jesus.

But what really depresses me the most is, how we as a nation cannot move forward and see past the Bible.

It just totally amazes me that so many people will let a glob of pulpwood with written type on it control how people think and live.

They let the Bible think for them, how foolish!

Repsectfully yours, Ben

steamboat_willey said...

It's highly unlikely that Jesus even had a tomb, let alone one that emptied out. Anybody who could afford a tomb in those days would have put his neck on the line by loaning it to a convicted criminal. The both of them would have been thrown into a trench, and all of the philanthropist's property would have been taken away.

Oftentimes when we discuss these stories, we are many times removed from reality:

1. They speak of a God that is impossible to observe or prove the existence of.
2. They speak of events that don't make sense when you try to think them through.
3. Common understanding of those events is not based on the scriptures, but upon traditional, extra-biblical interpretation.
4. Truth cannot contradict truth, but the Bible does contradict itself.
5. We are expected to just accept the story, despite 1 through 4 because it was brought to us by somebody [like Ted Haggart] who has a "gift."
6. Keep your wallet handy.

J. C. Samuelson said...

"A Christian is someone who has invited Jesus Christ into their life as Savior and Lord.
The relationship is being born of the Spirit into the family of God:
(John 1:12, 13.)"


Some might call that someone who is "born again" and has a relationship with God. Seems to me that someone mentioned that...

As for Leakey and Johanson, I stand corrected. Leakey (Mary and Richard after their father, Louis) did a lot of work with habilis, and I mixed them up. So, such as it is I apologize.

And I second Jim's call for further information on the alleged 500 witnesses.

steamboat_willey said...

I also want more information on the 500. Right after you provide them, I can probably come up with names, addresses and phone numbers of 500 people who claim to have been abducted by aliens. That would be proof of intelligent life on another planet and therefore disproof of the whole God vs. Satan on this planet story.

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