I pray that God may soften your heart
Dear sir/madam,
I am writing to you out of concern, and i really hope that you might spend a
short time to read this email.
i dont write this email to try to stir or offend you but i was googling
"christian forums" when i stumbled upon your website. I attend christian
forums as a born again believer and i believe they are helpful for dicussion
of hard topics and current affairs etc that might be causing a christian
some struggles etc. The chrisitan forums websites are used to encourage
each other - and to lift one another up.
Your website however seems to only have the sole purpose of bringing people
down. I;m not the smartest or most knowledgable person around but i do know
that what you are doing is sin and i think it a real trajedy that you would
encourage others to leave behind God and to not return to Him after trials.
Life is hard, i will grant you. But what do we deserve?? nothing! We are
sinners, all of us - and there is no denying that every single person on the
planet is guilty of one sin or another. I'll admit myself to being guilty
to numerous. But God made us promises and they are written in the Bible.
IF you have read the bible then i encourage you to look closer, and
especially pay attention to revelation - where it refers to judgement of
sin. Please dont encourage ppl to turn away from the one thing that can
save them.
If you however are have not read the bible then i beg you to go to bible or
baptist church and talk to the pastor there. ask them to prove to you that
God is real. But please do this in an open manner. dont close yourself off
to a God that loves you and is calling you to come home.
i hope you chose to read this, and please know that whatever you may think
of me and this email - i care for you and i pray that God may soften your
heart and that you might call on Him to save your sole.
L Mclean
To monitor comments posted to this topic, use
.
I am writing to you out of concern, and i really hope that you might spend a
short time to read this email.
i dont write this email to try to stir or offend you but i was googling
"christian forums" when i stumbled upon your website. I attend christian
forums as a born again believer and i believe they are helpful for dicussion
of hard topics and current affairs etc that might be causing a christian
some struggles etc. The chrisitan forums websites are used to encourage
each other - and to lift one another up.
Your website however seems to only have the sole purpose of bringing people
down. I;m not the smartest or most knowledgable person around but i do know
that what you are doing is sin and i think it a real trajedy that you would
encourage others to leave behind God and to not return to Him after trials.
Life is hard, i will grant you. But what do we deserve?? nothing! We are
sinners, all of us - and there is no denying that every single person on the
planet is guilty of one sin or another. I'll admit myself to being guilty
to numerous. But God made us promises and they are written in the Bible.
IF you have read the bible then i encourage you to look closer, and
especially pay attention to revelation - where it refers to judgement of
sin. Please dont encourage ppl to turn away from the one thing that can
save them.
If you however are have not read the bible then i beg you to go to bible or
baptist church and talk to the pastor there. ask them to prove to you that
God is real. But please do this in an open manner. dont close yourself off
to a God that loves you and is calling you to come home.
i hope you chose to read this, and please know that whatever you may think
of me and this email - i care for you and i pray that God may soften your
heart and that you might call on Him to save your sole.
L Mclean
To monitor comments posted to this topic, use
.
Comments
L, it is you that I beg. I beg you tyo come out of your brainwashed shell and think for yourself. Thouroughly examine ALL the evidence and see that the god of the bible is a myth, just like all the thousands of other gods that men have invented over the centuries.
It really bothers me to se people waste thier lives living for nothing. We have this life and this one only. Don't waste it living for an imaginary world that you will never see.
No, not at all. We very much believe in lifting people up so that they can make informed choices for themselves and in helping those who are struggling with the oppression they have suffered under religious indoctrination. Those are positive things.
LM: "...what you are doing is sin and i think it a real trajedy that you would encourage others to leave behind God and to not return to Him after trials."
The stated purpose of this site is to help those who have already made the decision to leave Christianity. It clearly also helps some who are on the fence by offering information an opinion about the religion that is often hard for current believers to obtain. Am I to infer that you would chose to silence all those who hold non-Christian views?
In my opinion, the real tragedy would be to allow people to be indoctrinated with misinformation and do nothing about it. It would be a tragedy if every human being was not given the opportunity to exercise their own mind and decide for themselves.
LM: "...what do we deserve?? nothing! We are sinners, all of us - "
That is the dogma you have been indoctrinated with through your religion. Just look at how you describe it. You state it as a matter of fact, at a site populated by those who do not even believe in your deity. Without your invisible deity, the notion of "sin" is totally nonsensical--it's only meaning is with respect to her. However, "morality" is perfectly comprehensible and meaningful in the absence of supernatural entities. Do you understand that?
LM: "But God made us promises and they are written in the Bible."
That is simply your religious dogma. Have you ever seriously questioned what you just said? Given your categorical tone, I rather doubt it. If not, that's a pity. Millions of people the world over never question the religious dogmas they were brought up to believe. Can we agree that many are trapped in "false" religions as a result?
LM: "IF you have read the bible then i encourage you to look closer,..."
Virtually all of us here have read your Bible. In my opinion, it portrays a monstrous and capricious deity; one who shows little regard for human life. The morality of the Bible is befitting a bronze-age tribe, with its propensity for slaughtering and plundering. To suggest that it is the word of an all-loving god is preposterous. Have you actually read the Bible? The whole thing?
LM: "Please dont encourage ppl to turn away from the one thing that can save them."
People can do as they wish. Nobody is forced to read or believe a single word that is written here. There are no threats issued to those who disagree with us. Wouldn't it be nice if religionists could behave similarly?
LM: "...i pray that God may soften your heart..."
Please allow me to make an observation here. I suspect that you need to learn the difference between people who have "hard hearts" and those who disagree with your theological opinions. Do you understand? We have a different opinion of Christianity than you do. You cannot infer anything at all about us as people from that fact. To suggest that we have "hard" hearts (whatever that may actually mean) is both presumptuous and arrogant of you.
Let me close with a challenge to you. Do you think you are capable of having a civil discussion with people who do not share your religious views? Unfortunately, the tenets of Christianity make this difficult, as it polarizes people into "believers" and "non-believers" and encourages the very arrogance that you have shown here. Can you rise above that?
"Rarley do I post, but I just wanted to say...Life is NOT hard. Eat/drink healthy, do some reaserch when making tough or important descicions, and things to to be very easy."
I disagree, life Is hard. Eat/drink healthy, do some reaserch when making tough or important descicions, and things are a little easier.
Someone on another thred posted a quote from "The Duke"
"Life is hard. If your stupid, it's harder."
I think that what R. Black is doing is qualifying the poster's remarks by suggesting that life doesn't have to be hard just because those here have chosen not to believe in a god. Quite the opposite; life can be wonderful, even without a god. On a personal level, maybe R. Black happens to have an nice easy life at the moment and I hope yours gets easier, cause it sounds like you're going through a tough time.
Naomi
Be advised: There is no god, your prayers are just so much cosmic begging.
Your rather "soft" head is your own fault.
Read your bible, no fair cherry picking the simple minded bull shit stuff you like.
Grow UP!
people down? You think no one here
has ever read the Bible? A resounding NO to both!
This site has been a big source of
encouragement to people like me who
grew sickened with the repression and and age-old nonsense of organized religion, especially yours. This is a site for people who have done something the church
fears most..thinking for themselves!
And how many times does it have to be said to you fundies? We read the
Bible, everything from Genesis to
Revelations, we spent years of our lives at church, and found all of
this seriously lacking in logic and
common sense, trying to live our
lives according to the beliefs
of an ancient people.
Okay, you've done what most of us
used to do, you've preached to the
heathen. (By the way, I was a
fundamentalist Baptist, too.) Make
sure you tell your pastor this Sunday, so you can get some brownie points.
sinners, all of us
I have to thank you L Mclean for that. It reminded me of why I'm so glad to be free of that horrible "We Are Not Worthy" theology and the terrible things it does to ones psyche and mental health.
But it is a awfully effective tool that uses guilt to control the followers. That's why you are referred to as "sheep" Mclean, someone else is in control of your "life".
Maybe someday, if your lucky Mclean, you'll shed that terrible religion and be able view people and yourself as...just people.
However, what is even sadder is that deluded people like this poster go through life thinking everyone's a sinner and should feel guilty. (For what? Being human?) That's a terrible way to think of yourself and your fellow humans. That's a terrible way to live.
To make a statement like “Your website however seems to only have the sole purpose of bringing people down.” Shows an astounding arrogance and inability to even attempt to see things from someone else’s point of view. They see this and can’t step out of their own perspective for the second it takes to see that what seems one way to them, is very encouraging to others.
The very definition of self-centered.
Butch
"Please leave us alone. You are like a drinks company chasing after reformed ex-alcoholics, to get them to return to alcohol, or a cigarette company chasing people who have quit smoking, to get them to light up again. We are EX-Cristians and we do not need you. PLEASE leave us alone."
Interesting analogy. I am a recovering alcoholic(16 years sober) and yes those mother fucking drink companies temp me every single day especially around the holidays and big time sporting events. My personal will power gets me though the temptaions(not a higher fucking power), but the temptaions are always there.
But to compare a witnessing Christian as the same is a little off because I know I am one drink away from a drunk, and I could drink again(not very likely but possible) but I could never believe in a God again knowing what I know now. It just isn't possible(without proof beyond the Bible). I love it when Christians stop by to rile us up. Can you imagine how dull this place would be without them? I wonder if the same would be said on a Christian site by a barnstorming atheist in a message board.
xrayman
Sadly, I doubt if L will ever return to read this or any other response. But I do wish he/she and all the other drive-by christians who hurl their "pearls of wisdom" at us swine would endeavor to learn what "EX" means.
It means we've heard it all before. Many of us are more familiar with the bible than they'll ever be. Being open-minded and hungry for knowledge, most of us are also familiar with other texts and research pertaining to their man-made bible and their man-made god. And we're not going back!
Instead of wasting their time and ours, the evangelizers should take it to a more gullible audience. If L had really Googled "christian forums (maybe the "L" stands for "Lying for Jesus"), he/she would have found plenty of websites that cater to like-minded people who are too scared to live their lives and think for themselves.
I can see that. I was just making a point that my life was much harder when I was a xtian. It's much better to go thru life in a logical way, but It still aint what I would call easy.
I would disagree with you that atheists are obviously of a "higher moral fiber". That is not a foregone conclusion! Just because someone fashions a god to support her morality doesn't mean it's a weak one. The christians I know (and I wouldn't be friends with them if they were weak people) have very strong moral fibers and I conclude it comes from themselves, whether or not they think it's the bible telling them so. I don't like the bashing going on here. Your tone is arrogant. Explain Martin Luther King and Ghandi, please.
Naomi
Yeah, I too enjoy the fun that ensues after a christian drops off a load of horse hockey and then scampers away like a vandal in the night. Unfortunately, we can't often return the favor because atheists (and even christians expressing the slightest hint of doubt) usually get banned from christian websites immediately because those sites don't allow opposing viewpoints and independent thought.
Maybe you don't see it, but this website does lift up those of us who have left Christianity behind. Most of us face opposition that you can't even begin to comprehend. There are many of us with family members who won't even speak a kind word to us. It can get so bad that sometimes we consider selling ourselves short and going back just so we can hear our parents say "I love you" again. I don't know about you, but to me, that sounds like blackmail and the wrong reason to go back to a way of thinking that just seems wrong.
I don't expect you to understand, but coming here and rubbing salt in open wounds is not loving or kind and it merely proves to me that Christians are vile, evil people who are only interested in grinding people down.
Go back to your Bible study and leave our "soles" alone. They're not your concern.
-Avie
heart and that you might call on Him to save your sole.
Well, mine seems pretty happy and healthy at the bottom of my 50 gal. tank, but thanks for the concern.
Obvious to all but the oblivious.
Indeed! Well put.
Now kindly get stuffed, you drone.
Have you ever thought about being a good person who does good non-harmful things for GOODNESS sake, rather than because you are threatened with eternal fire and brimstone from an "all-loving" god if you don't???
Think about it...it's not a difficult concept.
Max L.
“I love it when Christians stop by to rile us up. Can you imagine how dull this place would be without them? I wonder if the same would be said on a Christian site by a barnstorming atheist in a message board.”
I love it too as it is very entertaining. But it is also very important if we as a group are going to keep our claws, er, skills sharp. If all we do is debate one another then we are just preaching to the choir. (Sorry about the religious idiom.) Dealing with fundies helps us to refine our personal beliefs and our debating/debunking methods, rendering us better able to deal with these types when they do show up and more importantly, help those who come here looking for such. In addition, every time we turn around it seems that the fundies have a new angle. In order to combat that, we need to know about it.
So let them come to us. Yes, the holier-than-thou attitude and their arrogance as well as the mindless threats concerning eternal damnation make me angry and upset. I too want to tell them to stick it where god’s light never shines! But know thine enemy!
. . . agreed. Christians (big C) and christians (little c) are all a waste of life.
Oh and here
" The God of the Old Testament, as "arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction. Jealous and proud of it, a petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak, a vindictive bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser, a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."
-Richard Dawkins
The above statement certainly describes you. Just a suggestion "read the bible" and if you still feel the same way, get some help. There are a lot of good psychiatrists in the yellow pages. With their guidance and meds you should become something less than a babbling idiot. Seriously you do need help.
I don't think you can come to an ex-christian site and post something like this and seriously try to make a significant impact on people. Most of the people here have already been through christianity like us and feel out of the faith. As christians, we have to encourage people in whatever path they choose and not judge them and condemn them to hell.
I'm sure most people here have heard the same messages and disagree with them. I would like these people to get back into the faith but its no point of trying to point the finger down on them. And i feel for the people here who have been put down by the church and felt like God hasnt done anything for them.
To the people thats still on the fence with they're faith I just want to give encourage and tell them dont give up on christ. To those that gave up and are not turning back I just want to wish you good luck on whatever path you choose and just to be a blessing to others before you die. Also Happy Father's Day to all the father's out there.
God Bless,
Minister D
I think this message has gotten such a heavy response is that we are all so very very tired of being told how wrong we are by people with whom the door to any kind of reasonable communication is tightly closed and locked.
I finally left the "faith" about a year ago and it is still an amazingly new adventure to me. Trying to explain it to Christian friends and family can be so very daunting.
This particular site is for people who have left the Bible thumping, black/white thinkers behind. We are here because we DON'T want to be anywhere near where you are anymore.
Please. Leave us alone. I've given you 40+ years, many of which I served as a pastor's wife. I have read my Bible -- a lot. I've walked the walk, talked the talk, eat, slept, and breathed church. I've lost precious years of my life to Christian dedication. I've only started to really live when I took my life back and began to think for myself -- something I'm no longer afraid to do.
Perhaps your prayers should be for yourself -- that you would be set free from the bondage in which you live. So sad. Such a waste of a life.
The concept of Atonement does not make any sense. BibleGod sacrified himself to himself to appease himself so that he would not roast us forever in a fiery pit that he created. Why could he not just forgive all of our bad deeds without any bloodshed? Also, couldn't he have done a better job of creating us? I say that he is the worst sadomasochist that there ever was!
short time to read this email.""
I am hoping that you are not fly by night, but will be her to answer for yourself. I read yours only fair you read mine.
""i dont write this email to try to stir or offend you but i was googling
"christian forums" when i stumbled upon your website. I attend christian
forums as a born again believer and i believe they are helpful for dicussion
of hard topics and current affairs etc that might be causing a christian
some struggles etc. The chrisitan forums websites are used to encourage
each other - and to lift one another up.
Your website however seems to only have the sole purpose of bringing people
down.""
Malarkey! xian forums can be one of the worst back biting discouraging places anywhere on the net. This site has be helpful and uplifting to many, there is even a letter right before yours with a person writing about how much they were helped. You make Baby Jesus cry when you lie. This site has been a lot of things for me, helpful, entertaining, encouraging, sometimes it's been annoying. So, I think you owe the webmaster, and all the regular posters here an apology for this slander.
""I;m not the smartest or most knowledgable person around but i do know
that what you are doing is sin and i think it a real trajedy that you would
encourage others to leave behind God and to not return to Him after trials.""
Sad that what you do know you're wrong about.
""Life is hard, i will grant you.""
Life is a joy, look at the alternative.
""But what do we deserve?? nothing!""
Exactly!!!! No one deserves an eternity of torment.
""We are
sinners, all of us - and there is no denying that every single person on the
planet is guilty of one sin or another.""
Speak for yourself.
"" I'll admit myself to being guilty
to numerous.""
You sinned, somewhere sometimes, off in the never neverland that you're not going to realy share k, but isn't bareing flase witness a sin? Yeah it is, so since you obviously commited that sin here against the webmaster and regular poster don't you think you should apologise?? What you believe about God's forgiveness is one thing, but when you wrong a PERSON you should apologise to that PERSON. Don't you agree?
"" But God made us promises and they are written in the Bible.
IF you have read the bible ""
I have, Jesus also said to give to all who have a need and ask... tell me when you're ready I'll give you my paypal, I need about $1200 to get the transmission fixed on my car.
""then i encourage you to look closer, and
especially pay attention to revelation - where it refers to judgement of
sin. Please dont encourage ppl to turn away from the one thing that can
save them.
If you however are have not read the bible then i beg you to go to bible""
I will when you do, and start to live like Jesus told you. NO excuses sweetheart if you love him you'll do what he says. Unless, of course, you're full of malarky, the bible does warm about people like that. "Get ye behind me Satan!"
"" or
baptist church and talk to the pastor there. ask them to prove to you that
God is real. But please do this in an open manner. dont close yourself off
to a God that loves you and is calling you to come home.""
BTDT got the crappy VBS T-shirts.
""i hope you chose to read this,""
I hope you read this.
"" and please know that whatever you may think
of me and this email - i care for you""
Prove it, let me know you read this, and tell me where to send the paypal info.
""and i pray that God may soften your
heart and that you might call on Him to save your sole.""
sole? he's fixing shoes now???
Purple- My name is Purple because I'm so awesome.
once you start realizing that, you can start realizing some truth.
take care now L.
Oh and arrogant fundie heres a quandry for you: if The truth shall set you free, why are you a slave to Jesus?
Happy to be heathen, oh and Jehova and Allah are butt buddies.