The rebirth of Israel in 1948

I am hoping that you can give me some sort of rebuttal concerning the so-called fulfillment of Biblical prophecies, particularly the one involving the rebirth of Israel in 1948. I have been presenting various information to a friend of mine to illustrate that the Bible is full of errors and a very shady history as far as how it was constructed.

This particular friend keeps harping on the fact that the rebirth of Israel was predicted in Ezekiel 37 & 38. He also constantly reiterates the fact that the much-hyped "Mark of the Beast" scenario was not ever possible until the generation that we are currently living in (computer technology, lasers, Digital Angel tracking, etc.)

What would be your reply to such a person?


Edwardtbabinski said...

How Do I Deal With the Multitude of Prophetic Passages?

by Edward T. Babinski

Addresses "end times" prophecies and the rise of the nation of Israel in particular.

freedy said...

I predict that I will die someday.

When this happen's will you think of me as true prophet of god?

*That's how I would reply.Just have some fun with him. He's brainwashed and there's not much you can do about that.

Anonymous said...

First, read up on the history of the Balfour Declaration. In short, the modern state of Israel exists largely because European Christians thought it was supposed to exist. In other words, it was a self-fulfilling Christian prophecy that came true because Christians took affirmative steps to make it come true.

Second, read the actual text within Revelation about the "Mark of the Beast." You'll see that the modern spin Christians place upon it has a great deal of interpretive license. Tattoos had long existed at the time Revelation was written. The Mark was just a tattoo. There is no more reason to assume it was a bar code or implanted chip than to surmise that it to be a literal tattoo of 666/616.

Anonymous said...

Hey there, well, we know the establishment of the zionist state of Israel was self-fulfilling at best. Simply because the prophecy existed, and people believed it, they tried to make it happen. Self-fulfilling prophecies don't count. That is why there are jews who protest the state of Israel as being fake, because it was not of a supernatural fulfillment. Ezekiel 37 and 38 are very vague and unclear, meaning anyone can make it say whatever they wish. Notice it says nothing about 1948, zionism, evangelical christianity, balfour, palestine, arab, muslim, koran, etc. If it did, that would be truly amazing, because it is primarily the clash with islamic culture which makes the conflict exist and the bible predicting not only the specific rebirth of Israel, but the existence of Islam prior to Islam ever coming into existence would be amazing. But it says nothing like that. It sounds like your friend is probably a dispensationalist of some type. When I was a christian, I began to see the problems with these prophecies not being fulfilled like christians claimed. Then I began to accept preterism (belief that many prophecies were allegorical and fulfilled in 70 AD). While I know it is clever apologetics to get around the time-restricted prophecies, it still makes far greater sense than the modern dispensationalism. I wrote a list of questions for people who believe in the literal prophecies of the bible happening and how it contradicts scripture.

That being the case, check out these questions at :

Now, not every one of them might be good for pointing out the flaws of his interpretation, but they clearly refute it in the bible itself. I'm guessing he believes the new testament, since you claim he believes in Revelation's "mark of the beast" stuff.

Just a point...he thinks the "mark of the beast" wasn't possible until our generation because of technology. My guess is because he thinks it says "whole earth" in earlier verses and that somehow means the entire planet and the "cannot buy or sell". The problem is the greek word for earth is "ge" where we get our word "geo" or "land" from. Doesn't mean entire planet. Also, he should study what christians claim Nero did because for many years, Nero was considered "the beast" by christians. Recent discoveries of parchments of Revelation say the number of the beast is 616, not 666. The reason is that Nero's name adds up to 666 in hebrew and 616 in latin. That means that christians earlier to the time of Nero were quite sure he was the man it speaks about. If that is the case, then to apply it to a future, yet unseen person would be false. Also, the introduction of "futurism" which your friend is embracing (that all prophecies are in the "near" future) which was almost identical was actually the work of a jesuit catholic priest named Fransisco Ribera. The reason was simple. As a tool of the counter reformation, the catholic church had to do some PR work by introducing another interpretation of scripture which would rival the protestants' claim that the pope was the antichrist of the bible. Just change the antichrist into a future person who is outside the christian faith. So, really your friend and all who embrace "left behind" theology are simply adapting an old counter reformation set of doctrines from a catholic priest. And their concept of this stuff only began to be preached in the 1830's by Edward Irving. So, it is relatively new and happens to be the majority of what many churches now teach (due to Darby and Scofield's heavy pushing of it in college seminaries).

I hope that helps in your quest to explain the problems of "prophecy" to your friend.

paul said...

Ezekial 37:12,13: "...Oh my people, I am going to open up your graves and bring you back to the land of Israel. Then you, my people, will know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves and bring you up from them."

I wasn't around in '48, but I have never read of this happening. I can think of a few Jewish people (around 6 million) who might also dispute the fulfillment of this prophecy.

Anonymous said...

Prophecy demolition in three easy steps:

Step 1: Think about what was going on when the passages in question were supposed to have been written(according to the bible).

Step 2: Even more important. Think about what was going on when the passages were ACTUALLY written, which isn't usually the same time as in Step 1. (By the way, isn't that called deception?)

Step 3: Most important of all. Think about the intended audience, which is usually those around the time dealt with in Step 2. What did the writer want THEM to think? (and not you in 2007 AD - You were never supposed to see the light of day!)

Once you've answered those questions, things start becoming much clearer.

So, read up on the book of Ezekiel, the Babylonian exile, and what came immediately after that.

freedy said...

There are many xtian ministries that are paying for Russian Jews to be transported to "Is-not-real" at this moment.

This doctrine of the jews being chosen to return to the un-holy land is the cause of most of the terror and conflict in the world.

My non-religious Jewish freinds and I believe this is racism and very offensive to the gentile world.

Christian's believe they have been grafted into Yahweh's special family,...the Jews.
This of course is why they are so bent on fulfilling this made up, so-called prophecy.

Nvrgoingbk said...

Ask him why if Biblical prophecy is so important to him, didn't Jesus' prophecy regarding his return being in the lifetime of his disciples come true?

Ask him why the hebrew word "alma" meaning young woman, was changed to "virgin" to fit in with the pagan trend at the time of saviors being born of virgins and impregnanted by the gods.

Ask him why Jesus' promise to grant us anything in his name just doesn't deliver.

Ask him to please stick his hand in a vat of venomous snakes since Jesus predicted that he would be able to handle them and not be harmed.

Hand him a glass of arsenic laced lemonade and tell him to drink up reminding him that Jesus predicted that he would be able to drink it and escape death.

Ask him why Jesus' prophecy that his followers would be able to do greater things than him is not being fulfilled? Christians aren't walking on water. Christians aren't raising people from the dead.

Since end time prophecy is so fucking important to him, ask him why the "rapture" doctrine was never preached among the early church and did not become circulated until the 1800's when a fifteen-year-old girl named Mary Macdonald had a "vision" while laid up in bed about two seperate comings of Jesus.

If he claims that there has to be a "rapture" because the Bible predicts that the day of the Lord would come like a theif in the night, remind him that in 2nd Thessalonians Chapter 5, Paul tells the church "2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 BUT YE, BRETHERN, ARE NOT IN DARNESS TAHT THAT DAY SHOULD OVERTAKE YOU LIKE A THIEF"

I've got plenty more if necessary, but start with some of these and let us know how they serve you.

SpaceMonk said...

Aside from what everyone else has said (people knew ahead of time and carried out the story according to the script in their bible. Nothing miraculous whatsoever.) I'd also ask what's he going to do if people really do start getting marked on their foreheads?

...because there's also 'the Mark of God' which gets put on the forehead aswell.

So, if the Mark of the Beast is a chip, the Mark of God is just as likely to be the same.

What if he avoids getting chipped, or at least forehead stamped, and misses out on the rapture?

Maybe if the Marks are barcodes, the Great White Throne Judgement could be just God with a big scanning-wand beeping everybody into either Heaven or Hell?

Unknown said...

I predict that someday the US will have a black president. Now, since the law of averages is on my side this prediction will most likely come true. So you might as well bow to me as a profit now.

twincats said...

The apocalypse has been imminent for many centuries now.

Check out a book called "A History of the End of the World" by Jonathan Kirsch. I'm nearly done with it and highly recommend it.

Unknown said...

This page gives a lot of information about the so-called prophecies of Daniel and explains how most of them were likely written *after* the events they claim to describe, rather than before.

To quote from the page on the topic in which you're particularly interested:

If the author(s) [of Daniel] could have accurately predicted the future after 164 BCE, he would have prophesized some additional earthly empires which controlled Palestine:
5. The Roman Empire (from 63 BCE)
6. Byzantine Empire (from 313 CE)
7. Arab conquest; control of Palestine by Muslim groups (from 636 CE)
8. Christian Crusaders from Europe (from 1099 CE)
9. Mamluks under Saladin reinstate Muslim rule (from 1291 CE)
10. Ottoman rule (from 1517 CE)
11. British Empire rule (from 1917 CE)
12. The State of Israel (1948 CE to the present time)

From the time of Daniel to the present day, Palestine has been controlled by 11 foreign empires until Israel finally attained independence in 1948 CE. The author(s) of the book of Daniel, apparently writing about 166 CE, was unable to predict his future.

Anonymous said...

I pose that you are going about this the wrong way. If you are attempting to point out to your friend that the bible is errant then stick to it and don't get side tracked.

Re-inforce to your friend that according to the holy text ALL scripture is inspired and without error if in fact a perfect God wrote it.

Continue to show him the obvious errors and ask would a perfect god cause to be composed a holy book full of errors?

Even one error throws the whole idea of biblical inerrancy into question.

eel_shepherd said...

If we're nominating candidates for Antichrist, mine goes to former world chess champ Garry Kasparov. He has a lot to commend him as anti-X, such as originally being Jewish (real name Weinstein), is quite smart, and is re-emerging as a player in Russian politics. Now, admittedly, he hasn't been bonked on the head and recovered from his wound (yet), but the night is still young. So, that's my choice for anti-X, Garry Kasparov.

Plus, I propose that for the sake of agreeing what the number of the beast should be, we take the average of 666 and 616 and say that from now on, the N.O.T.B. is going to be 641.

Anonymous said...

1. There has never been a people, who having been driven from their country for over 1000 years to be restored to thier country.

2. There has never been a language dead for over 1000 years to be not only revived bus spoken by a whole country.

3. The exact year and season of Isreal being reunited was predicted. Read Below

Ezekiel lived in Babylon during the time Israel was taken over and its people exiled to Babylon. God appeared to Ezekiel in a vision and gave him a prophecy that Israel would be punished for 430 years (Ezek. 4:3-6). For God was fed up with His people's iniquities, and they would be dispersed from their homeland for a trial period.

The land of the Jews was ruled by the Babylonians for 70 years, and for much of that time, many Jews were held as exiles in Babylon. But in the spring of 536 BC, they were allowed to return to Jerusalem by the Persian King Cyrus, after the Persians overthrew the Babylonians. Subtracting the 70 years from the 430, we are left with 360 years of further punishment. Israel did not repent of its sins after 70 years, and most of the nation did not return to Israel. The majority stayed as colonists in what is now Iraq-Iran. 360 years later the Jews still did not fully return to Israel, and nothing significant happened. Why were the Jews still being punished by God 360 years after the Babylonian captivity ended? The answer is in the book of Leviticus. Four times in this book, in chapter 26, God tells Israel, that if she did not repent, she would be punished seven times more for her sins.

Now take the 360 years and multiply it by 7, and you get 2,520 Biblical years. A Biblical year is 360 days, as reaffirmed in the Bible. The Jewish year of Biblical times was lunar-solar and had only 360 days. Therefore the end of the punishment and restoration to Israel would be accomplished in 2,520 years of 360 days each. Multiply the 2,520 years by the 360 days, and we get 907,200 days. Converting this figure into our calendar year of 365.25 days, by dividing 365.25 into 907,200 days we reach a total of 2,438.8 calendar years. Therefore, the end of Israel's worldwide captivity would occur after a total of 2,438.8 years had elapsed from the spring of 536 BC. Keep in mind there is only one year between 1 BC and AD 1. Now add the 2,438.8 years to 536 BC, and we come to the spring of 1948. In the spring of 1948, on May 14th, an event took place that shocked the world. The Jews proclaimed the independence of the reborn state of Israel.

Steven Bently said...

Actually there has never been a Jew or Muslim or Christian, Babylonian, Gentile, Witch, Democrat, or Republican, insert your favorite title or label here..........., there exist only Human Beings claiming titles and labels.

When you come out of your mothers womb, the doctor does not say, "Here comes a's a's a's a human being...the titles and labels come later after the indoctrination and the brainwashing of the human being.

And that my friends is exactly what is wrong with this world...we put value upon religious and political titles and labels.

I am a human being that lives on this planet, I claim no titles or labels, I consider myself a person that should be able to travel to any place on this earth without being threatened by ignorant people that claim to have a title or label in which would make them appear in their minds to be more superior than me.

When you're laying there dead in the casket, where's your title?
Suddenly your net worth disappears.

Screw you and your book of religious titles.

That's all the Bible and Quran is, a book to descriminate and to preach war and hatred against people that do not believe and live as they do.

Go down to the mall and make a list of all the Christians and Jews and Muslims and Witches and Pagans and infidels that you see without asking anyone their title. You cannot, because all titles and labels are instilled beliefs passed on only by indoctrination from other ignorant insane fools.

Anonymous said...

Adding 2,438 years to 536 B.C. comes to 1902, NOT 1948, for heaven's sake.

Pageviews this week: