Thank you for a great site
Webmaster,
Thank you for a great site.
I'm not and never was a christian or a believer, although I have always been interested in the how's and why's behind people's beliefs.
I think supporting people who are losing their religion is a good thing; though some christians come on here not understanding what this site is about, it seems in their so called unconditional love they're not able to unconditionally support people who no longer think the same way.
Although I find some Ex-Christians comments here a bit harsh towards christians, I can see where they are coming from.
I find it interesting that Christians come on this site anonymously questioning the validity of this site, yet it seems perfectly fine to have a 'christianity rocks' site...to support it is fine,to question it seems to be wrong or unneeded and even objectionable or dare I say it, sinful.
Issues I've struggled with regarding religion in general is this:
-god is an all knowing, all seeing and forseeing omnipotent entity.
-he has created us and the earth, and we are created in his image.
How can I sin? How can god be dissapointed in me if he knows all and knows who I am, as he has created me. If he is all forseeing, then surely he would know what I am about to do, before I even know it myself. How can he be dissapointed in my actions?
It also seems he has rather dubious motives. How can he give an innocent grandmother throatcancer, yet grant say someone like Pol-Pot, muderer of millions, the gift to live peacefully till the end of his days?
It seems this all powerful deity, who has the abillity to create a complete world in a matter of days, is quite happy to dish out global disasters (apparently he is punishing us) but has no desire to stop them. When a loved one dies in a tsunami or flood, we hear people say that god in his infinite wisdom has taken them back to his fold and that it was probably his or her time.
We don't question the fact that this deity could have saved all of them, or that he was perhaps even the cause of the disaster in the first place.
But most interesting of all is that as a non believer, I don't get any signs. I don't get voices in my head talking to me, apart from my own voice. I don't speak in tongues, or 'feel' god or jesus in me. I find it remarkable that some Christians do get this; and you would think that since they are already believers, they would need that less if at all?
Surely myself, as someone who in a Christians eyes is a poor misguided soul that should repent for his sins and start believing, should get some sort of sign; a visitation, a feeling, anything, to startle me and make me wake up to smell the christian coffee?
So in my process of understanding I then turn it around. What if I was a deity and I decided to create earth and mankind (and a universe..for a long time we thought we were the center of the universe..it is only in the last few centuries that through science we have started to understand our own arrogance)..what would I create to make people believe?
Why not make it blindly obvious? Why all the conjecture, books written by third parties who claim to speak in my name? Why not have it come directly from the source? And I don't mean a son who looks human, by all accounts acts and is human and martyrs himself for humans.
Why not manifest myself..or put down a sign of some sort that is so far beyond what we can create that we cannot deny it? That is obvious to all..not just the people who believe in me; as there would be no necessity to believe or not to believe. It would be like gravity itself; hard to ignore when you're walking around on this earth. You can decide not to believe in gravity but there is no point as you cannot ignore it; it is so basic that belief about it doesn't even come into play.
So that's where I'm at. I see that people need structure and morality in their lives. There's plenty of that without religion. There was a time when it wasn't there and religion did a good job of teaching people common values. But to me it looks like something that has gone waaaay beyond what it ever needed to do.
I applaud the people who have come to this site and who are examining their beliefs, wether it is to lose it or to keep it.
Just examining it and asking questions means that you're thinking on your own..that is an important thing.
Thanks for reading my rant:)
Joris
Thank you for a great site.
I'm not and never was a christian or a believer, although I have always been interested in the how's and why's behind people's beliefs.
I think supporting people who are losing their religion is a good thing; though some christians come on here not understanding what this site is about, it seems in their so called unconditional love they're not able to unconditionally support people who no longer think the same way.
Although I find some Ex-Christians comments here a bit harsh towards christians, I can see where they are coming from.
I find it interesting that Christians come on this site anonymously questioning the validity of this site, yet it seems perfectly fine to have a 'christianity rocks' site...to support it is fine,to question it seems to be wrong or unneeded and even objectionable or dare I say it, sinful.
Issues I've struggled with regarding religion in general is this:
-god is an all knowing, all seeing and forseeing omnipotent entity.
-he has created us and the earth, and we are created in his image.
How can I sin? How can god be dissapointed in me if he knows all and knows who I am, as he has created me. If he is all forseeing, then surely he would know what I am about to do, before I even know it myself. How can he be dissapointed in my actions?
It also seems he has rather dubious motives. How can he give an innocent grandmother throatcancer, yet grant say someone like Pol-Pot, muderer of millions, the gift to live peacefully till the end of his days?
It seems this all powerful deity, who has the abillity to create a complete world in a matter of days, is quite happy to dish out global disasters (apparently he is punishing us) but has no desire to stop them. When a loved one dies in a tsunami or flood, we hear people say that god in his infinite wisdom has taken them back to his fold and that it was probably his or her time.
We don't question the fact that this deity could have saved all of them, or that he was perhaps even the cause of the disaster in the first place.
But most interesting of all is that as a non believer, I don't get any signs. I don't get voices in my head talking to me, apart from my own voice. I don't speak in tongues, or 'feel' god or jesus in me. I find it remarkable that some Christians do get this; and you would think that since they are already believers, they would need that less if at all?
Surely myself, as someone who in a Christians eyes is a poor misguided soul that should repent for his sins and start believing, should get some sort of sign; a visitation, a feeling, anything, to startle me and make me wake up to smell the christian coffee?
So in my process of understanding I then turn it around. What if I was a deity and I decided to create earth and mankind (and a universe..for a long time we thought we were the center of the universe..it is only in the last few centuries that through science we have started to understand our own arrogance)..what would I create to make people believe?
Why not make it blindly obvious? Why all the conjecture, books written by third parties who claim to speak in my name? Why not have it come directly from the source? And I don't mean a son who looks human, by all accounts acts and is human and martyrs himself for humans.
Why not manifest myself..or put down a sign of some sort that is so far beyond what we can create that we cannot deny it? That is obvious to all..not just the people who believe in me; as there would be no necessity to believe or not to believe. It would be like gravity itself; hard to ignore when you're walking around on this earth. You can decide not to believe in gravity but there is no point as you cannot ignore it; it is so basic that belief about it doesn't even come into play.
So that's where I'm at. I see that people need structure and morality in their lives. There's plenty of that without religion. There was a time when it wasn't there and religion did a good job of teaching people common values. But to me it looks like something that has gone waaaay beyond what it ever needed to do.
I applaud the people who have come to this site and who are examining their beliefs, wether it is to lose it or to keep it.
Just examining it and asking questions means that you're thinking on your own..that is an important thing.
Thanks for reading my rant:)
Joris
Comments
The epistle of Peter and the book of Revelation tell us that in that last days the Christian church will experience the trauma of apostasy. It is leaving the truth of the Bible for vain philosophies of the world. You guys at Ex-Christian you are a bunch of apostates, you are not some enlightened people of reason. May God open your hearts once again for the love of Christ, who died on the bloody cross of calvary to redeem us. Priase to Jesus, my Savior!
you can bitch and moan about us all you want.we've heard all the b.s christians have been polluting the planet with for the past 2000 years and find it lacking any substance.
go do something productive with your life
Starting with Peter, your "god" respects no person...
1 Peter 1:17 - "And if ye call upon the Father, who without respect of persons, jugeth according to every man's work."
Deuteronomy 10:17 - "For the Lord your God ... regardeth not persons."
2 Chronicles 19:7 - "For there is no iniquity with the Lord our God, nor respect of persons."
Acts 10:34 - "God is no respecter of persons."
Romans 2:11 - "For there is no respect of persons with God."
Galatians 2:6 - "God accepteth no man's person."
Ephesians 6:9 - "Neither is there respect of persons with him."
Colossians 3:25 - "There is no respect of persons."
Not only does your "god" not respect any person of his own creation, to include you anonymous, but we are all predestined according to his will. Therefore, blame your "god" for creating apostates according to his pleasure.
Ephesians 1:4-5 - "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
You guys at Ex-Christian you are a bunch of apostates, you are not some enlightened people of reason.
But Look at Me! Right here ! Look Look at Me!
I have the Key to all knowledge, I'm a Christian and you're not!
But!
I'm totally enlightened, read what I said below.
May God open your hearts once again for the love of Christ, who died on the bloody cross of calvary to redeem us. Priase to Jesus, my Savior!
Now see ME! Look at how Smart I am! I just repeated something I've heard before, Look at Me! See how smart and intelligent I am?
I'm a Christian, just bristling with smarts.
See the difference? See how Smart I am? Look at me, I'm a Christian and you're Not! See how Smart I am?
But!
I'm saved, and you're not! See Me! See how Smart I am?
But I'm ashamed to leave my name!
If I were the webmaster, I would scrubb everyone of you stinking brainwashed ignorant fundies posts!
I just love your comment, it has really made my afternoon I cant stop laughing it's very entertaining.
I can see the spit spurting from your lips as you type "You guys at Ex-Christian and that crazy look you must get in your eyes when you are talking to non believers , you are in fact one of the lunatics I have been noticing a lot of lately..
Here's to mental illnes god love you
Praise Mithra
Anyway, I stuck around because, like you, I've always been interested in religion and why people believe in obviously untrue things. (The christian response is "faith," which really means nothing more than "I believe because I believe," i.e., no rational thought involved at all.) I've found some of the ex-testimonies and forum comments from the apostates fascinating - and they certainly reinforce my rather low opinion of fundies.
Oh, but unlike you, I have spoken in tongues - just to show a pentecostal nutcase how easily anyone can fake that b.s. It's easy; just open your mouth and let loose with a string of syllables. Of course, the nutter had a quick response for that; he said I was speaking a real language but it was the language of Satan (god's evil twin, I suppose). Sheesh! Christians - infuriating and laughable all at the same time!
I've always been an atheist, too. Parents, were Southern Baptist, and until I got big enough to skin out of it, the week was full of choir practice, prayer meetin', training union, royal embassadors...
I admit it, in my teenage years for about six months, I thought it was me, why couldn't I see it if everyone else did, and seemed to see it so clearly. So I tried, and found out that it was like a girl I knew said about it, it was all a "pound of smoke."
I don't think people are stupid for being believers, people have needs and most of them aren't able to think originally. But I've spent 'way too many nights wondering if I'd see the morning, knowing that there were people trying to kill me, so I know why fear will make you think in an odd way. Strange, though, at the points where it was reckoned that we probably wouldn't survive, I got calm, and never felt freer in my life. Happy, even, because I saw that nothing really mattered. No, I never called on any gods. About as many called on gods as did on their mothers with about the same observeable result.
Thanks for the comments. Yes, being able to look at superstition squarely, see it for what it is, and cast it off is truly an awesome thing. Perhaps significantly more people will benefit from being able to do so now that information is so readily available through the internet; that could easily be the one of the major factors that will change the "equation". Rationalism thrives on free-flowing information and debate, but it is anathema to religion. Time will tell.
"Todays Apostates are Tomorrows
Prophets"!!!!! Thanks for reminding us of how stupid you guys are!