Jesus yes, church no

From Dakota L

I'll be honest. I haven't given up on Jesus, but church makes me wince. I've been very hurt by religion. I've made my own mistakes as well.

I've grown up in church my entire life. I found this site after "Googling" Masters commission, as I was a first year student. I feel it created a lot of insecurities in people; I know it did for me.

The no dating policy was more like "no looking in the opposite sex's general direction." I was even "confronted" for doing so in a large group of people. I had hardly had any communication with the opposite sex and was shy for the most part. Then I'm suppose to be made to feel like I am doing such an ungracious deed? I swear, it screwed me up psychologically. Even to this day, although I am happily married, I have trouble with the opposite sex. I feel very uncomfortable after being conditioned in Masters Commission. That is one thing I think was unhealthy.

I was also prayed for and as the woman was praying she was screaming for the spirit of lesbianism and all these horrible sexual things to come out of me. It was mortifying. One of the most humiliating experiences. (There are many more.)

I realize too that many Christians grow up in a mold. I don't feel that I have, although growing up a Christian. One woman at my job asked me how I was, and I said "happy." She then told me, "It's not all about being happy." I suppose I did take more personal offense because I had dealt with a lot of years not being happy, and finally I was, and then I get told "It's not all about being happy." That was a plain weird comment. Although knowing what she meant... still! Like I was naive for saying I was happy. Not so much. Not after being molested and humiliated over and over and over again in life.

I have read how many other people have been hurt by church, I know! My initial experiences of following God were not church related, so I don't completely identify church in my own heart and head with the Jesus I've found I can trust. I do find peace when I focus on God, but church gives me anxiety. And although I think part of that is how I have been wounded, I don't think it looks the way God intended.


Telmi said...


A few questions:

Have you read the Bible - the OT and the NT?

Do you believe in the stories narrated in both OT and NT?

Do you have any idea how the NT was put together, how the canonized gospels were selectively chosen to the exclusion of gospels written allegedly by other disciples of Jesus, for example, the gospels of Matthias, Peter, James, Judas, Philip, Thomas etc?

Do you believe in the doctrine of the Trinity?

Jackie said...

Hi Dakota,
I was also in Master's Commission. What year and where did you go? It's been 8-9 years for me. Going through that made me realize just how easy people can be manipulated and how easy it is to start a cult. I believe that master's has turned into a cult. Ever notice how everyone begins to pray the same, worship the same, and even talk the same? Scary! I didn't realize it until I was out for about 2 or 3 years.
Do some serious soul searching and a lot of research. I have learned that you shouldn't believe something just because someone you think you trust said it. Go find out fr yourself. Don't let anyone tell you what you should or shouldn't believe. That's your choice. Just ask yourself "why do I believe this and what evidence do I have to support it?"
Best of luck!

Nina said...

I believe that the Jesus you have in your mind that you trust is the important part. He is not outside of yourself. The Jesus relationship you think you can trust is really just YOU. You have an inspiring message for yourself. The doubt about the church is only the beginning. You may harbor doubt about all of it, but are so sold on this God that you can focus on. Try meditating within your own mind and find peace there. After a time, you will trust that it is really your own voice and stop looking outside for comfort, answers, and reason.
It may take a while, but Telmi had a good point. You need some education on the history of Christianity to see through it sometimes. Never stop the quest and congratulations for getting yourself this far after suffering abuse. You did it yourself, take the credit.

wonderblog said...

Dear Dakota

My heart really goes out to you. Your experiences sound so raw and I can identify with the things you talk about. Just remember that what you trust in should not come from what other people tell you God wants. They do NOT have any lucky numbers. You say that you have faith in Jesus - well no one on this board should try to take that away from you either. It's none of our business. But you have posted your story to a board of people who are together for the purpose of shedding their Christian faith so please don't run away if you get some negativity about that faith in Jesus.

At the moment it looks like this is all you have to hold on to and if anyone tries to prise this away from you, I worry that you might bolt. Of course, there must be some reason why you have come here rather than to a Christian discussion board so bear with us and stick with it. There is more to finding your your way to the truth than a simple faith in Jesus, no matter how genuinely held it is. Delve into the history of this faith and use your powers of reason and you may just find that you can no longer hold onto that either.

I think I can speak for all of us who have let go of our Christian beliefs when we say that it is the most liberating thing we have ever done.

One thing I would deffo recommend is that you stop going to church where you are surrounding yourself with the people who keep telling you what the "TRUTH" is. They are highly suspect, as I said - they do not hold any lucky numbers. You know this already because they have proved it to you by their behaviour, but I understand that they have a way of beholding you to them which is very hard to break away from. Be strong and know that there are other ways to live and YES - be happy! You have REASONS to be.

Free Thinker said...

Hi Dakota, I'm happy to see you here...keep reading these posts and soon you will find complete happiness and freedom. I suggest you read a book that I read - Losing Faith in Faith by Dan Barker- From Preacher to Atheist. He helped me to break "all" the chains of religious tyranny. he is also co-president of the Freedom From Religion Foundation.

Anonymous said...

Im sorry to hear. It sounds alot like my pentecostal upbringing.
I wish you happiness, and I hope, at the least , you can understand why people leave faith altogether ( jesus, church and all). Its good you've decided to make your faith more spiritual than religious. If that works for your then keep it all.

muttmutt said...

Youre not an ex christian yet. I cant trust those that dont go all the way with it. Youre halfway there. From what Ive researched, Jesus never existed outside of the bible. I know, im considered a hypocrite because im a Polytheistic pagan, but it seems to me theres more proof for Zeus or isis than there is Jesus. Its not about proof for me, its about personal experience.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...


I will give you a piece of information that will set you free:


The first century Christians (The Apostle Paul and his band of merry friends, among other groups) were waiting for the Christ to come. They never believed that he had walked the Earth. (Read Hebrews chap. 8,9)

Second century Christians, taking advantage of the first century Christians' tradition, began to write (The Gospels, and other writings) as though he had come to Earth.

The popularity of Christianity spread thoughout the Roman Empire, and Christianity, being anti-Roman, was adopted by the Romans in order to keep control of the Empire.


You don't have to take my word for it. I suggest you read the following books:

1. THE JESUS PUZZLE - by Earl Doherty

2. JESUS NEVER EXISTED - by Kenneth Humpreys


Or you can simply visit the site

or you can go to The Skeptics Corner

It's about time you stopped torturing yourself. The truth will set you free, but you have to do some digging to find the truth.

Good luck!

wonderblog said...

Good Grief! As if Dakota hasn't already suffered enough of this kind of thing Andrew. I'm sure that the things "these people" as you call us have to say to Dakota is as nothing compared with despicable mind bending teachings of the cults already experienced by her and many of us. I consider myself privileged to have found this site and believe me this is positively enriching my sense of wonder at the world. Unfortunately it is also revealing the scale of the cruelty metered out by people of fundamental religious faith...does that sound familiar to you?

Jim Arvo said...


I just read through all the posts in this thread to see if there was any warrant for your rude comments. I see none. Before your arrival, this thread was overwhelmingly positive, with some of the regulars here suggesting things to think about and books to read. There was also a great deal of encouragement.

Then we get to your posts. Andrew, you need to take a serious look at your conduct. If you disagree with anything that is stated here, nobody is stopping you from injecting your opinion. If what you have to say is true, and has some warrant, then your words will have force. (Dogmatic statements get old very fast, however.)

I have a challenge for you, Andrew. See if you can exhibit the very tone you wish others to adopt. Can you at least give that a try? Thanks in advance.

Dave Van Allen said...

Andrew is severely mentally ill. He trolls numerous websites round the clock posting all sorts of hateful rhetoric. He doesn't only post on this site and other similar sites. He posts regularly to, advising people considering suicide to kill themselves and verbally abusing any and all women.

Frequently he has full on conversations with himself, posing as persons on opposite sides in a conversation. He is quite wacky.

He is tech savvy enough to mask his IP, and appears to post from numerous locations around the country. Most of his posts, however , clearly emanate out of Kansas City.

The guy is middle-aged, single, and in desperate need of professional help. He compulsively posts the same things over and over and over and over and over.

Do no engage this man. You only feed his mania.

Andrew, get some help before the FBI assigns the help to you.


Dave Van Allen said...

I forgot to add that every post from this poor, sick individual will be deleted on site, so there is no point in responding to him.

Anonymous said...

WM Dave,
Thank you. I don't mind a good healthy debate with a fundy, or even a few raucus insults. But, as you said, Andrew is truly in need of professional help. He is out of touch with reality.

Again, thanks.

charles said...

Hi Dakota l, the priests and pharisees are alive today
there are some churches like that here in the UK but i dont think so many as USA.

your experience and others on this site are excruciating to read. I dont need to go into the manipulation and mind control that goes on - others can do that better.

what id like to say is that what you are talking about and the others is the wost kind of man made works religeon which Paul and the early christians had to contend with. In their day they had to deal with works related issues like circumcision, the Law, salvation by works etc which of course is works religeon, they wanted to control the new convert and make him theirs by making him do things they wanted, they wanted to 'own ' him
today it is chanting girly mindless chorus, attending the freakshow you describe, being embarrassed and humiliated in public, listening to worldy shallow preaching by self appointed wise men all so you can be 'saved' and if you dont like their mode of worship thats because you are 'challenged' they say.
no its because they are shallow, self centred, biblically ignorant egocentric deluded fools

God wants to be worshipped in truth and in spirit - i dont think the foregoing counts as this. I woud also say that it breaks the first commandment - just what is the God of some of these organisations ? Themselves ! Its one they made up

Jesus said to the pharisees that they were hypocrites who would encompass half the world to make a convert and then make him twice a son of hell as themselves - i think that sums up what is going on.

The Gospel of grace isnt enough for them oh no they are better than that they cant own grace. simple obedience prayer and reading the word thats not enough oh no youve got to do more youve got to have an 'experience' speak in tongues, fall on the floor, make a fool of yourself to 'prove ' you love christ etc etc , pure evil heresy

i am a believer but went for many years not going to church because of the things you describe. Things are much different for me now but if you dont like what you see in a place you are right to flee from that place straightaway if im in a place like that now i get out asap.
the devil is not to be found in the bars and stripjoints, there is nothing for him to do there. he is busy in the church, undermining, confusing, encouraging pride and false worship spreading the kind of destruction you mention. i hate to say it but that is far and away his best work.

the pharisees of works and control religeon are your deadly enemies and those that follow them are doomed

there are tho as im sure you know lots of good churches in america with Godly able pastors and God fearing pastors tho america is a big place i suppose. I listen to dr peter masters sermon page at the metropolitan tabernacle church London. Here is a man that really knows his God and loves the word, i havent missed a single one in 2 years also you can find a good church on they have a church finder and you can listen to the preacher to see if hes ok, most of them are as it is a reformed site.

Rule of thumb - why would a church be big with thousands of members ?
because the people are hearing what they want to hear and 'my people love it so'. such a place will almost certainly be apostate

apropos my former remarks, i am a believer in a pretrib removal of the (true )church. Looking around i suppose to myself that whilst millions will be removed over the world many millions more who imagined that they had entered into salvation will be horribly suprised i think many churches will enter the trib period with more or less a full membership.

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