A letter from Kim
I am 51 years old, and was raised as a Protestant. I "converted" to Catholicism when I got married for the second time 22 years ago. I always felt guilty because I didn't get much out of going to mass. A lot of it seemed very redundant. Very recently, I have been questioning my faith. Not a very comfortable feeling. I am terrified to admit that if I don't believe in a higher being, I will for sure be thrown into the fires of Hell!
I am terribly CONFUSED and afraid. I consider myself a kind and compassionate person (I work as a patient care technician in a Catholic hospital!), and just because I am questioning whether or not God exists doesn't mean I should be condemned for eternity! I don't dare to talk to my husband about these feelings because his faith in God is very strong. I am not saying that I don't believe there is a higher power, but if he/she/they were so loving then why does it seem that life is always such a struggle!!??
Please assure me that my frightful feeling about going to Hell will subside.
tag: ex-christian, bible, hell, judgment, de-conversion, skeptic, religious delusion, freethought
These letters were published between January 2001 and February 2010. To view recent posts, go to The Main Blog at ExChristian.Net
216 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 216 of 216Sorry for my late reply:
Ever since Genesis 3:15 people have been set up against the Jews, it all depends who they're a descendent/offspring/seed of.
By returning to the original Hebrew and Greek we find that man has been beguiled, one example is the removal of His Name and replaced with a Lord, the title given to the sun-god Baal. That immediately takes it from being a personal relationship to that of bowing and submission. We owe this change initially to the Jews and then to the Catholics for replacing Yahweh with Lord and Yahshua the Messiah with Jesus Christ.
The rabbis have twisted the Torah, created the Talmud, consisting of 613 laws that are only there to serve the rabbis, to give them authority of which they were never entitled. Ever since the beginning the Jews have been walking errantly, they've been in exile for almost 2000 years. Example of a twist: God didn't say a person must have a funny hair cut, but in context that a person mustn't copy the pagans, in simple words, don't copy Beckham's hairstyle as it is classed as idolatry. And then the Law of debt release in Deuteronomy 15:1-3 says they "may" hold the debt of a foreigner, but the Jews have made it obligatory to milk every dime from those that are not Jews. The Spirit of the Torah is about giving and sharing, yet they missed it. This law is actually prophetic that those who do not know Yahweh, who are foreign to Him, will be liable for their debt of sin at the end of the 7th Millennium, however those that know Him will have their debt of sin cancelled. It's not an irrelevant law, it might not be practical in terms of business relations, especially in today's societies, but this law was to be included in close-knit communities in the Land (Israel), that of sharing between family, friends and fellow believers. Every instruction/law has a profound spiritual principle, just one needs to look a little deeper, trying to understand the metaphors used. This lie of the Torah not being relevant for today's society is just another scheme of the Halal ben Shacher (aka Satan) to keep mankind from the Truth. He's managed to keep the Christians from the Truth as well, they believe Yahshua did away with the Law when He clearly said in Matthew 5 they He did not abolish it.
The importance of the Sabbath Rest: on this day (Friday sunset to Saturday sunset) man must rest from doing servile work, your common work that earns money to provide for your provisions. Yahweh wants Man to realise that he cannot earn salvation, we cannot work for it, we must just rest and reflect in His provision. It is also prophetic of the 7th Millennium rest when He will come dwell amongst Man, which is soon because the 6th Millennium since the fall of Adam is closing soon. We are sinners from birth, and it is only Him who provides the gift of eternal life. Without belief in His sacrifice, and forming a relationship with Him, a man will simply return to the grave. Remember the story of the man collecting sticks who wanted to kindle a fire on the Sabbath who was executed in ancient Israel? Well, he did not trust in Yahweh to provide salvation, he trusted in his own strength. This is prophetic of men who choose to ignore Yahweh and trust in Man instead, the execution date is just being delayed, it will happen. Notice he's kindling his own fire, his own judgement. There will be no fire/judgement for those that trust Yahweh and take Him seriously.
Remember: it is His creation, why should He bless people that do not want to know and be with Him?
Sorry for my late reply:
Ever since Genesis 3:15 people have been set up against the Jews, it all depends who they're a descendent/offspring/seed of.
By returning to the original Hebrew and Greek we find that man has been beguiled, one example is the removal of His Name and replaced with a Lord, the title given to the sun-god Baal. That immediately takes it from being a personal relationship to that of bowing and submission. We owe this change initially to the Jews and then to the Catholics for replacing Yahweh with Lord and Yahshua the Messiah with Jesus Christ.
The rabbis have twisted the Torah, created the Talmud, consisting of 613 laws that are only there to serve the rabbis, to give them authority of which they were never entitled. Ever since the beginning the Jews have been walking errantly, they've been in exile for almost 2000 years. Example of a twist: God didn't say a person must have a funny hair cut, but in context that a person mustn't copy the pagans, in simple words, don't copy Beckham's hairstyle as it is classed as idolatry. And then the Law of debt release in Deuteronomy 15:1-3 says they "may" hold the debt of a foreigner, but the Jews have made it obligatory to milk every dime from those that are not Jews. The Spirit of the Torah is about giving and sharing, yet they missed it. This law is actually prophetic that those who do not know Yahweh, who are foreign to Him, will be liable for their debt of sin at the end of the 7th Millennium, however those that know Him will have their debt of sin cancelled. It's not an irrelevant law, it might not be practical in terms of business relations, especially in today's societies, but this law was to be included in close-knit communities in the Land (Israel), that of sharing between family, friends and fellow believers. Every instruction/law has a profound spiritual principle, just one needs to look a little deeper, trying to understand the metaphors used. This lie of the Torah not being relevant for today's society is just another scheme of the Halal ben Shacher (aka Satan) to keep mankind from the Truth. He's managed to keep the Christians from the Truth as well, they believe Yahshua did away with the Law when He clearly said in Matthew 5 they He did not abolish it.
The importance of the Sabbath Rest: on this day (Friday sunset to Saturday sunset) man must rest from doing servile work, your common work that earns money to provide for your provisions. Yahweh wants Man to realise that he cannot earn salvation, we cannot work for it, we must just rest and reflect in His provision. It is also prophetic of the 7th Millennium rest when He will come dwell amongst Man, which is soon because the 6th Millennium since the fall of Adam is closing soon. We are sinners from birth, and it is only Him who provides the gift of eternal life. Without belief in His sacrifice, and forming a relationship with Him, a man will simply return to the grave. Remember the story of the man collecting sticks who wanted to kindle a fire on the Sabbath who was executed in ancient Israel? Well, he did not trust in Yahweh to provide salvation, he trusted in his own strength. This is prophetic of men who choose to ignore Yahweh and trust in Man instead, the execution date is just being delayed, it will happen. Notice he's kindling his own fire, his own judgement. There will be no fire/judgement for those that trust Yahweh and take Him seriously.
Remember: it is His creation, why should He bless people that do not want to know and be with Him?
I'm going cold turkey on this post.
Thanks and see ya around.
My best to Kim
Okay, I lied. I'm baaaaaack.
otc, your papist forbears sure as the goddamned hell denied salvation for all those who were not safely inside the church of rome. It might interest you to know that here at St Joseph's college, I was a major in philosophy and a minor in religion. I was instructed in both pursuits by the finest minds in this part of the world.
The common position of all I have met--students; faculty; priests; brothers and sisters--is that the catholic church has to apologize for its mistakes and to try to live it down. No, otc, they actually did say that only a catholic is saved, and this is why you are trying to cover it up. As Shakespeare wrote: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks".
The rest of you, stay on this guy's ass. Most catholics own up to their shabby past. This fucker doesn't.
And otc.......about my anger. I am angry at myself. A lot of us are. So many wasted years.
Okay, I lied. I'm baaaaack.
otc, your papist buddies sure as the goddamned hell preached that only those safely within the church of rome were saved. Don't give me this crap about the "church of christ". The key phrase you are ignoring is "vatican II".
It will interest you to know that here at St Joseph's, I was a philosopy major and a religion minor. I was trained in both pursuits by the finest minds in this part of the world. It is the common position of educated catholics--students; faculty; priests; brothers and sisters--that the church has a lot to apologize for and a lot to live down. You, on the other hand, are trying to hide. I don't blame you; you have a lot to hide from.
jews; catholics; protestants--the whole sorry bunch has such a hard time owning up to their shabby past. Their phoney attitude is "who, us"? Yeah, you. If it were not for secular authority, you assholes would still be hanging witches and torturing heretics.
And about my anger......I am angry at myself. A lot of us here are. So many wasted years.
Webmaster, my first post disappeared and I re-posted. I hope I have not double-posted.
I am having a bitch of a time getting my posts to "stick".
Also I lied. I'm back for more of this shit.
otc, your papist friends sure as the hell did preach that non-catholics are damned. It may interest you to know that, here at St Joseph's, I majored in philosophy and minored in religion, and in both pursuits I was trained by the best minds in this part of the world.
Educated catholics--students; faculty; priests; brothers and sisters commonly assert that their church has a lot to apologize for and a lot to live down.
The key phrase is "vatican II"
Remember what I said about bullshit? There are people here in this country that believe that anybody who does not go along with them is damned. Anybody. They even hate other fundamentalists. Let me repeat......that is what your shit sounds like to us.
I am having a bitch of a time getting my comments to "stick".
And yes I lied. I'm baaaaack.
otc, your church sure as hell did teach that those outside the church of rome were damned. It might interest you to know that here at St Joseph's I was a major in philosophy, and a minor in religion. In both of these pursuits I was instructed by the finest minds in this part of the world. All educated catholics--students; faculty; priests; brothers and sisters--have asserted that their church has a lot to apologize for and a lot to live down.
The key phrase from my last post is "vatican II".Now go do your homework. That is when they renounced the doctrine "extra ecclesia non salus est".
M said...
We are sinners from birth, and it is only Him who provides the gift of eternal life
---
M,
By "WE", who are you referring to, because I sure don't include myself in YOUR sins against YOUR god?
Now, do you have credible proof for this "eternal life" gift, you assert here?
Perhaps you've had a few visits from dead relatives or even Houdini, whereby you can provide us with some magical knowledge from the great-beyond?
>This is prophetic of men who choose to ignore Yahweh and trust in Man instead, the execution date is just being delayed, it will happen. Notice he's kindling his own fire, his own judgement. There will be no fire/judgement for those that trust Yahweh and take Him seriously.
'Nice' little fairy tale you got going for yourself there, M.
Let me say that I put my trust, not so much in 'man', but merely in something called ***REALITY***.
Reality has yet to ever let me down, like your god has; each and every time.
Reality never lies to me, like your babble book does.
Reality never makes false promises to me, or threatens me with a mythical lake of burning brimstone.
Reality doesn't promise me an impossible heavenly existence, nor does it pretend that my actions/beliefs will earn me some reward after I turn to the star-dust I came from.
Reality tells me that our biological selves is the entire package, and there is no hidden mystical spirit powering up my brain with some special undetectable god-energy.
Reality tells me that you have crawled so deeply inside your storybook, that the real world has all but vanished from your mind.
Reality is something that obviously scares the heck out of you, so you have climbed inside your your bible story, much as Alice went through the looking glass, or Dorothy went to the Land of Oz.
M, you can continue to discover all the little details about your bible story, adding more and more details to the imaginary building you are obviously very fond of constructing.
However, when all is said and done, your oh-so-grand building structure is nothing more than some synapses in your own mis-wired physical brain.
When your brain dies, you will die along with it, just as any biological life form must do.
What makes you think that you harbor some eternal soul in your flesh and blood body?
What makes you think that humans have a soul inside them, while other intelligent life forms such as Monkey's and Dolphins, do not have the same?
Why would your god offer such a promise to this creature called 'man', while ignoring other life forms, that surely will just perish when they die?
Could it be M, that because humans have the ability to form stories about their adventures and fears, that they invented your bible creed, just so they could feel less frightened about dying; not to mention so they could control the population?
Could it be that you are stuck inside your own self-built Matrix and haven't realized that reality does exist outside that Matrix illusion ?
No, you have climbed down that rabbit hole so darn far now, that to face reality at this point, would surely short circuit your mind's synapses.
If you think you can stand it, you might climb up that rabbit hole and take a few peeks around outside it, to see if your god belief has anything more than hearsay to support your beliefs.
Stop trying to cherry pick anything you can force-fit into your bible creed and start from scratch to see if the evidence available to the rest of us, would indicate that such a god could exists in the form your bible claims of it.
The answer is so OBVIOUS, that your god is nothing but a made up story, but you'll never be able to see this, because you are too emotionally tied to a desire for god to be real in your life.
Good luck with that
ATF (Who is still awaiting the email address of said god being?)
M: "Remember: it is His creation..."
Prove it without resorting to scripture, apologetics or personal testimony.
Ryan: "The rest of you, stay on [OTC's] ass. Most catholics own up to their shabby past. This fucker doesn't."
I'm on it, Ryan.
For starters, how much weregild should I claim against OTC for his share of RCC's crimes perpetrated against My family over the past 1200 years or so?
With regards to "extra ecclesia non salus est", Vatican II said:
"They could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it, or to remain in it."
They have maintained the same truth as was given to us throughout the ages but have extended it to those that are "knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God". As always, the Church's Magisterium continues to refine its knowledge of the Truth without negating any past doctrine. Jesus revealed Himself during His ministry and will continue to reveal Himself until the end.
The OTC "One True Church" is the one and only Church of Jesus Christ of which the Roman Catholic faith has been blessed to have the fullness of truth relating to issues of Faith and Morals for God's Church members on earth.
Ryan wrote: { Most catholics own up to their shabby past. This fucker doesn't.}
Ryan, I’ve owned up to my sinful past to Jesus and continue to do so as I work to please the Lord with all aspects of my life. Have you taken ownership of your sins? These sins are yours and there is only One in heaven and earth that can save you. Ownership starts with the self Ryan and Astreja.
OTC
"Marc", "OTC", "Yogi", "Unblinded", or one of a gazillion other pseudonyms, is back with:
The OTC "One True Church" is the one and only Church of Jesus Christ of which the Roman Catholic faith has been blessed to have the fullness of truth relating to issues of Faith and Morals for God's Church members on earth
Dear Obstinate, Tiresome Christian,
I thought you refered to yourself as "humble", yes? Hmmm, the above statement(i.e..baseless assertion) seems pretty f%cking arrogant to me. Okay, so you know the "One Universal Truth", blah, blah, blah. Yes, yes, you've unceasingly treated us to this information in the past. I think, by now, we can safely conclude a few things about you... like, 1) it's evident that you have no desire to see other points of view than your own(because you believe on "Faith", and of course, nothing can shake "Faith", because it's an a priori agreement with one's self, to never let anything penetrate your thought-process that may threaten your religious conviction. Duh) And 2), you obviously don't have the kind of evidence that will ever get us formerly-deluded Christians to reconvert back.
Will you leave? Or do you have some sort of a malfunction, and simply think that you can annoy us into believing? I mean, do you honestly think such a tactic will reconvert us? You know, you've been asked to stop ministering by countless people here, including the site's owner/operator. So again, will you just accept that we won't accept the type of information that you deem as "evidence"? And besides, let's remember, even if you had the kind of objective evidence that would convince us, then we wouldn't need "Faith" in the first place. See?(Rhetorical) And then again, that's just one of the many internal inconsistancies that's found in your religious "philosophy".
Please?
OTC wrote to Ryan:
Ryan, I’ve owned up to my sinful past to Jesus and continue to do so as I work to please the Lord with all aspects of my life. Have you taken ownership of your sins?
---
OTC,
Tell me, how do you know this 'lord' is pleased with the results of your efforts?
Does he sit down with you once and year and give you a performance-review, like most companies do with their employees?
I'd sure love to see one of those lord-reviews, boy would I !!
Now about this "ownership of sin" stuff.
Is this anything like owning a house or car?
Does one have to make monthly payments from some god-coupon-book.
First off, if it were possible for me to even commit a 'sin' (which it is not) then it's an action on my part and not something I can "own".
Perhaps you mean that I should confess my sins to your invisible lord.
Okay, I'll take the bait and do so, right here and now.
--------------------------
Dear True Lordie,
I wish to confess that there was a period in my life where I was naive enough to actually believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny, Bigfoot, Ghosts, Demons, ESP, Aura Healings, a 6 'day' universe creation, Souls, Heaven, Hell, and some unproven dude named Jesus.
I do hope with all my brain, that you will forgive my "mortal sin" of being so darn naive, lord?
I promise never to fall for such mythical things again, no matter how many woo-woo xtian types try and brainwash me into returning to those ridiculous beliefs.
Signed
ATF
P.S to Lordie: The Toothfairy is exempt from my confession, for obvious reasons [g]
---------------------------
ATF (Who wonders if anyone else also has a confession to make to this lord???)
"Ryan, I’ve owned up to my sinful past to Jesus and continue to do so as I work to please the Lord with all aspects of my life."
So you claim, but have you paid back your real debts to real people?
All of them?
Have you taken ownership of your sins?
(sighs heavily) Once again... Sin is a myth, OTC. Your god, if it exists, cannot be injured by mortals. Deal with it.
Ownership starts with the self Ryan and Astreja.
Yes, I know. That's why I pay My debts, and support My family, friends and community with tangible actions in the real world.
You, however, have forfeited that ownership to a murderous, covetous, abusive cult that has killed millions of people and fucked up the minds and lives of hundreds of millions more. You are in thrall to a frightful and bloody fairytale.
We don't envy you, OTC. To become like you truly *would* be hell on earth.
Obstinate, Tiresome, Catholic!
Don't call that hell-bound heretic a Christian. He's a Mary-worshiping, cannibalistic papist!
You need not be afraid of hell anymore than you need be afraid of being reincarnated into something unpleasant. the idea of hell is mostly Christian and is an easy tool for scaring people into following the doctrine. If we step back and look at how our views of hell change with the ages and how different cultures perceive the afterlife, it is easy to see that one need not be afraid of one anymore than another
You need not be afraid of hell anymore than you need be afraid of being reincarnated into something unpleasant. the idea of hell is mostly Christian and is an easy tool for scaring people into following the doctrine. If we step back and look at how our views of hell change with the ages and how different cultures perceive the afterlife, it is easy to see that one need not be afraid of one anymore than another
Post a Comment