A few words of caution

A letter from William

While I am 100% behind your endeavours to bring common sense and enlightenment to the religious masses, I would just like to add a few words of caution:

Either in your Audio, your Video, or your written text take every care not to come accross as arrogant, self assured and demeaning:

In fact you may be well advised to take on an old Christian principle and be "HUMBLE" as you march forward into the light of reason leaving behind the religious zealots, biggots and hypocrites struggling in your wake:

It is possible to be humble and proud if you get the mixture right:

Stir Carefully:

Regards

William

47 comments:

Anonymous said...

I dislike people like you.. stop telling people how they should, talk with these crazy religious freaks... only way i will show these crazy religious people any respect is the day when they show me some... other than being closed minded fools

eel_shepherd said...

The other side of that coin is not to lose the respect of the Xtians who know that "bigots" only has one "g" in it.

Anonymous said...

To my knowledge, this site is not intended to reach the "religious masses" but those of us who have left the christian cult. We are barely allowed to express any sort of emotion in our posts without some christian accusing us of being either angry, spiteful, rude, or some other label. Sorry, I censor myself in front of christians face-to-face enough as it is, if they come here on their own they're getting the R-rated version. I guess reading about rape, slavery, mass killings, and eternal torment fails to toughen sentitive christian feelings.

Anonymous said...

good point william.
I try to be this way, as being arrogant and angry only gives deluded religious folk more reason to assume Im simply "running away from the truth" like their story of the prodigal son. Freedom to question, believe, disprove, prove and change just as much as anyone else without fear or repercussions is important.
I just wish more people realized spirituality and religion is a journey and NEVER a final destination.

Lynn said...

Dearest William,
Thank you so very very much for your support and words of caution, you little control freak. Someone might think we are arrogant or (worse) self-assured? HORRORS!!! Oh no, whatever shall we do? Try to get this, it can be difficult. This site is for us. Not christians. Not you, apparently. US. We get to say whatever we damn well please. Anyone who wants to drop by is welcome, and if they can't stand the heat, they know where the door is.

Anonymous said...

Humble? As in pandering to religion?
I'm an atheist, why would I need to be humble?
Oh! I'm so sorry to offend your imginary invisible sky fairy!
Are his sensibilities that frail?
Should we apologize to Santa Claus, the Easter bunny and the tooth fairy?
Screw it all, I'm a atheist, if that offends you, that's your problem...You can continue to kiss your god's ass, but don't expect be to follow suit.......

eris.discordia said...

William,

In case you didn't notice, I would like to HUMBLY point out that this site is for EX CHRISTIANS! We make no claims or efforts to convert or de-convert ANYONE!!!

As others before me have stated, it is hard enough for us to be polite and humble while being directly confronted with their moronic fairy tales about their imaginary friends, DAY in and DAY out, and their pushy efforts to suck us into their amoral, child-abusing CULTS! Now we are being instructed as to how to act on OUR OWN SITE????

Bite me!

Anonymous said...

William,
Allow me, in all humility, to invite you to go have sexual relations with yourself.

humbly,
John of Indiana

Anonymous said...

William,

I know you mean well, but you sound arrogant saying that. You're not even giving people reasons. I am not convinced you're an ex-Christian. I am willing to bet money on your Christianity, actually.

In my opinion, advocating disbelief is like singing: you have to find your own voice. So, if being nasty is your style, belt it out, all the power to you. A more "professional" cool and collected approach can be, of course, more effective, but it is not for everybody.

It's called freedom. People should do whatever they want.

Anonymous said...

William,

I know you mean well, but you sound arrogant saying that. You're not even giving people reasons. I am not convinced you're an ex-Christian. I am willing to bet money on your Christianity, actually.

In my opinion, advocating disbelief is like singing: you have to find your own voice. So, if being nasty is your style, belt it out, all the power to you. A more "professional" cool and collected approach can be, of course, more effective, but it is not for everybody.

It's called freedom. People should do whatever they want.

Anonymous said...

William,
Should a rape victim be polite to rapists? Should Jews be polite to Nazis? Should a black man be polite to the KKK?

You'll find that many ex-christians have quite a different demeaner from those who have been atheists all along. While many always-atheists are angry at Christians for the suffering they have received, they don't harbor the shame that many ex-christians have for once being the people that they now despise.

I deconverted 27 years ago and I'm still dealing with the shame and anger. (For a clinical report of the ex-christian psychological ordeal, follow this link: http://christianityisbullshit.com/2008/01/08/ ) While I understand that treating people in a civilized manner is generally good, ridiculing, ranting, and raging against Christians is an important catharsis that is necessary for recovery. And this site provides a forum for just that.

So Christians are welcome here ... welcome to be abused!

Anonymous said...

Howdy William: I humbly accept your advice.

psychman said...

Where the fuck does this william character get off telling us how to post!?
You know william, one day when you finally wake up you will be very angry too. Angry that you spent your life kissing an imaginary god's ass and trying to discern his will for your life instead of having the balls to take responsibility for your own actions.
Let me tell you william when you come here you will take what we dish out cause those of us here have finally come to trust our natural (rational) senses and for the first time in our lives our eyes are truly opened.
I hope you have the stomach for the existential truth that you, william, are all alone in this world and nobody, not even your sky god, will ever intervene in your life. You have to rouse yourself to seek the truth that you are misquided and arrogant.

With that being said you are welcome to come here and visit but just know that we have no desire to appease you or your imaginary friends.

Thanks for visiting. ;-)

Anonymous said...

You've done it now william

this is a place where atheists etc can rant on all they like without fear of upsetting xtians

I see where your comment is coming from, but these are not the right people to be telling.

I suggest we pray together

Dear Jesus
Get fucked
Amen

and

Dear Jesus
Please save me from your followers
Amen

Goodbye and goodnight

Wayne said...

William,

I'll make sure I'm nice and humble and not say anything offensive like a good little lemming.

Meanwhile, I'll just humbly sit and watch every fucking evilangelist on TV arrogantly strut about and lead the other lemmings into bankruptcy.

Oh yeah, I'll make sure that I don't cause a fuss when I see presidential candidates talking about changing The United States Constitution into a christian rag... while they rip science out of our schools to replace it with a fairy tale... to see a stem cell get more respect and consideration than a fully developed human... to see people persecuted for what they do in the privacy of their own homes between consenting adults...

Yeah William.. I'll make sure I don't offend anyone as I tell you to go fuck yourself.

Anonymous said...

Humble like a slave or servant is commanded to be in the Holy Buy Bull?
Not coming across as self assured or demeaning like when I point out that Moses and Hiltler shared a similar brutal leadership style that killed anyone that questioned them?
Both were great altruists if you could only obediently follow their program.
Ok I’ll try to stop comparing them as kindred- in -spirit, brutal crime bosses, since I would not like to offend or demean others with Nazi like proclivities.
I will try to obey and be submissive............Yeah well I'm just not feeling it.

Unknown said...

As pointed out earlier, the is a place for ex-christians. It was a big help during my deconversion 3 years ago.

I come here now to support others.

If there is anyplace you should feel comfortable to being irreverent it is here.

After ,for some people, a lifetime of "bowing down to christianity" you need a place where you don't have to worry about "offending" a christian.

Some people need a place to escape the reaches of a mind control cult.

Asking them to watch what they might say here is asking too much.

Anonymous said...

If you were truly one hundred per cent behind our endeavors, you would have nothing at all to change, insult, demolish or pooh-pooh.

We will take care not to come across as arrogant, self assured and demeaning....WHEN YOU LEARN THIS SKILL.

Religious zealots, bigots and hypocrites aptly describe you and your KIND.

Please do not talk to us about mixing any kind of ingredients....when your own mixing bowl has absolutely NO BOTTOM TO IT.

Lance said...

Jeeez folks, sounds like William hit a nerve. I think he was just trying to encourage pragmatism.

I'm with you William. While it is fun to rant on this site, I also honestly want to make the world a better place. That may make me sound like a Pollyanna, but what the fuck, I have to live on this goofy planet and I prefer to do what I can to make it enjoyable.

Part of "enjoyable" for me would be fewer religious nuts around to fuck it up. But another part of enjoyable is getting together with family and friends without a bunch of unnecessary tension caused by religion - even if those family and friends are religious. And yes, I know how difficult that is!

I know that in my de-conversion process I pissed off a bunch of people. I found that made my life less fun, as well as theirs. I really do want help de-convert my fundamentalist friends, or at least tone their fervor down a notch or two. But full frontal attacks have not worked for me. Unless your definition of "work" is just to help me blow off some steam.

Now I do the slow drip method of de-conversion - Friendly relations with honest bits of polite doubt thrown in now and then, or even a friendly philosophical discussion here and there. It's not much, but it's all I've got right now.

So I'll rant on this web site and with my like minded friends, but when around the crazy folks, I will be honest about what I believe, but will also try to live at peace with them, and slowly win them over to reason.

Listen, religion is not going away. So you can learn to deal with it in a way the makes your life better, or you can sit and stew in a broth of your own anger. Your choice, but I personally did not like what that was doing to me.

Anonymous said "..stop telling people how they should, talk with these crazy religious freaks... only way i will show these crazy religious people any respect is the day when they show me some... "

I'm not telling you what to do. If being disrespectful to your fellow human is working for you, then go for it. But I have found that if I go first in showing respect, many of them do indeed return it. I don't have time for the ones that don't.

And as for telling others what to do, the purpose of this site is "Encouraging Ex-Christians." Please look up the definition of encourage. For me that is not just ranting with each other how much Christianity sucks - which is fun to do, but also working with each other to figure out how to go forward in this life without our imaginary friend.

If you still think this is too preachy, then you can go fuck yourself. (Irony intended)

Peace.

Lance

Anonymous said...

William, I understand where you are coming from. I just disagree.

I had a sister inlaw (I'm divorced from her brother now)who was into a very cultish Christian sect. She had a degenerative joint disease that led to needing a hip replacement before she was 30. That cult told her she just wasn't being Christian enough. She needed to really believe and she would be healed.

They had her out running when she was in real pain. They controlled who she dated, and had other very controlling ways. The point is I thought she was finally going to leave the cult. She needed the surgery and decided to have it. She told me she now got that her church was a farce.

We were setting in her living room and I admitted to her I was an atheist and apparently said too much by critisizing Christianity in general. I should have kept my mouth shut. She jumped right back into that cult with both feet almost immediately after I left the house. Then she cut off contact with me for quite a while because she came to the conclusion I was of the devil.

I never had much respect for her as she was a single mom with a little boy and she kept trying to commit suicide. She wasn't thinking at all about her little boy, only about herself -- probably contemplating how everyone would be sorry how they treated her and imagining watching people crying at her funeral, etc. At one point my husband and I were going to adopt her son, but that's another story.

So, I get why you would think we should censor what we say. Even though this is a site for Ex-Christians, that doesn't mean everyone here has dropped all their superstitions, or that they haven't just exchanged one religion for another.

Still, I censor what I say all the time and I'd like to honestly converse once in a while. This is sort of a support spot for those of us who are surrounded by Chrisitan irrationality. I'm not here to convert anyone, so I shouldn't have to walk on egg shells. Do you get where I'm coming from?

Joe B said...

Treating Christianity as if it was some sort of noble thing just serves the churches aims.

I treat the victims of the cult with compassion (I am one), but that's as far as I go.

As for the institutions and ideas that drive the cult, I treat them with the derision and contempt they deserve.

Anonymous said...

There are many people out there who are agonizing over the need to find a new purpose in life to replace their waning faith in God and all the baggage that goes with it:

Reading the replies to my comments suggests to me and possibly to new comers "Some" athiests are as rude and arrogant as the the people who they condem in various religions:

I assume that the wisest amongst our athiest friends would like to swell our ranks to add weight and force to our arguments, but ranting and raving and using abusive language towards God worshipers is not the way to do it:

People do terrible things to each other: You dont have to be religious to be a murderer or a child molester: Some athiests are as bad and in some cases worse than the religious fanatics they condem:

If you want people to understand you then at least try to understand them without being abusive, and convince them how wrong they are and how right you are with reasoned arguments:

Before I go I would just like to thank the few who at least tried to understand what I was trying to say, and to eel shepard I say that where I come from "BIGGOT" has two "gs" to give the word more meaning if you get my meaning, which you did not get the first time:
God Bless You All !!!!OOoooops!!!1

webmdave said...

William,

Although I believe I understand the intention of your letter, I think you misunderstand the reason for this website. The purpose of this site is not to de-convert Christians. This is not a site intended to “prove” the superiority of atheism. In fact, this site is not even atheistic; it is “ex-Christian.” And ex-Christians are as diverse a group as can be imagined. This place is intended as a place where people undergoing the strain of leaving Christianity have a place to rant, rave, cry, complain, argue, let off steam, relate with others in similar straits, and generally give and receive encouragement from other ex-Christians. This site is not evangelistic. There is no attempt to evangelize Christians to atheism. Christians simply cannot resist the compulsion to come here and preach — and that, dear William, is quite annoying. Sometimes, it’s down right enraging.

I strongly suggest you check out this article: Not Ready to be Nice. After reading or listening to that, I think you’ll have a better grasp on the purpose and point of this website.

Regardless, to denigrate and demonize passionate language is na├»ve at best and stupid at worst. There is no “one right way” to socially interact and discuss anything. Good grief, do you think the American Revolution was birthed by polite conversation? Do you suppose that significant world changing events are initiated by quiet, respectful tones? For some people, the slightest hint of rudeness might shut down communication — true. But for others, grinning politeness indicates a lack of conviction. Since everyone is different, it would be ridiculous to imagine that your particular style of expression is something all non-believers in Christianity should seek to emulate. Your flavor of expression may be preferable to you, but don’t mistake your individual personality for some universal standard of atheistic truth.

Anonymous said...

*sigh*

I don't mince words or put on airs because it might make other people more comfortable with my viewpoints. To me it's being kind of disingenuous to walk on eggshells in case you might offend someone. That's not the way I'd ever want to live.

Besides, this site isn't about Atheists trying to deconvert Christians... You are preaching to the wrong choir.

boomSLANG said...

William...Reading the replies to my comments suggests to me and possibly to new comers "Some" athiests are as rude and arrogant as the the people who they condem in various religions:

Again, so what? And BTW, the common denominator here is NOT "Atheism"; the common denominator is a group of people who are formerly Christian - or as delineated very clearly on the "front door" - "Ex- Christians".(along with site disclaimer, BTW)

Moreover, people who were formerly Christian may end up falling into any of a variety of categories - including, but not limited to - Agnostic, A-theist, Anti-theist..or even rarely, some other religious "Faith"..i.e.. Buddhism, Taoism, etc.

The point is, "William", most of us have deliberated long and hard, and we have made a well thought-out decision to LEAVE the Christian Faith, it's supernatural trimmings, it's false promises... and especially, its "one-size-fits-all" mentality, BEHIND. I implore you to get over it, and here are just a few reasons for that:

1) For every Ex-christian to disagree exactly the same, would of course, fall right underneath the "one-size-fits-all" mentality/category that I just mentioned. We just left that type of mentality behind, remember? Yes, by the tone of the original article - and a few of the follow-up comments - there may as well be some "unspoken doctrine" that we all MUST adhere to. Guess what? Scew that...cry me a river.

2) Christians are the ones who claim to be guided by an invisible "spirit", one who allegedly "nudges them" to acheive a state of moral(ethical) perfection. News flash: Atheists claim to be human beings - nothing less; nothing more. Their non-belief in god/gods, is irrelevant to that fact. If some "Atheists" are a$$holes?...then that "problem" is for Christians to over-come, not me, or any other Ex-christian, m'kay?

3) Christians, whether fundamentalist, moderate, liberal - or whatever the case may be - adhere to, and thus, implicitly condone a doctrine that causes divisiveness among humankind. Call me 'cRaZy', or angry, or whatever-the-hell you wish, but such things as slavery, the oppression of women, and the killing of those who oppose the Christian Faith, do NOT "unite" humankind; there is NOTHING redeeming in those outdated, barbaric beliefs...and thus, I don't have to be tolerant of any such doctrine, nor am I obligated to treat the people who support it, even implicitly, with "kid-gloves". Again, screw that.

'Hope this helps in your understanding.

Best regards.

Anonymous said...

Just a few things.

1. Being humble has nothing whatsoever, in any way, shape or form, to do with religion. Humility is a HUMAN quality. That religions have attempted to copyright all things desirable in humanity and call it their own does not change the fact humility has nothing whatsoever, in any way, shape or form, to do with religion.

2. As has been said already, this website is not about bringing common sense or enlightenment to the religious masses. It doesn't get any simpler than that. That there are those that post on this site that endeavor to bring common sense and enlightenment to the religious masses does not mean that there are posts or posters endeavoring to bring common sense or enlightenment to the religious masses. This site is for ex-Christians.

3. If any Christians visit this site, they should expect nothing less than hostility. Hostility has nothing to do with arrogance, self-assuredness, or being demeaning. Christians come to this site with two intentions.

One: convert us.

Two: make themselves feel better about their desperately clung-to belief.

They do both of these things, sometimes, by acting "HUMBLE," as you put it. Occasionally they will claim that they are simply here to dialogue, but in no case are they ever here for any other reason than for those two I have listed above.

4. The religious masses really don't care how we behave. If we are humble and reasonable, we are labeled robots, unfeeling shells, etc. If we are fiery, then we are hateful, angry, etc. People should be themselves. if they are angry, they need to deal with it, and sometimes that means BEING angry. If they are at peace, they will radiate that. But no matter how a non-believer behaves, the believer will always accuse the non-believer of SOMETHING.

5. What? No response? What happened to being "HUMBLE," William?

Anonymous said...

I'll try to be nicer if you try to be smarter.---freedy

freedy said...

I'll try to be nicer if you'll try to be smarter.-- peace freedy

Anonymous said...

lance said - """Jeeez folks, sounds like William hit a nerve. I think he was just trying to encourage pragmatism."""

Fuck you! I am so sick of this particular shit. About anything, religion, politics, knitting. Some jerk wad somes into a community craps, and then when people react in mass to having the stench of crap on their boards, either the crapper or some idiot comes along and says this "Oh musta hit a nerve." maybe, or maybe they just crapped on the living room carpet.

Aspentroll said...

Holy crap, Willy, did you get
your ass kicked or what? You'll have to dip your posterior in holy water to sooth the pain of it all.
The bible says turn the other cheek, so...turn it this way so we can all kick it again.

Anonymous said...

William wrote:

There are many people out there who are agonizing over the need to find a new purpose in life to replace their waning faith in God

If they need someone else to give them their "purpose" in life then maybe they aren't ready to leave their religion behind.

Reading the replies to my comments suggests to me and possibly to new comers "Some" athiests are as rude and arrogant as the the people who they condem in various religions

This is universal among opposing groups, did you just notice it now?

I assume that the wisest amongst our athiest friends would like to swell our ranks to add weight and force to our arguments

The "arguments" stand on their own, additional "weight and force" not required.

Some athiests are as bad and in some cases worse than the religious fanatics they condem

In my neck of the woods an "Army of God" follower shot and killed an abortion provider as he stood in his kitchen talking to his wife. Do you have examples of atheists killing Christians because of their beliefs?

If you want people to understand you then at least try to understand them without being abusive...

We all understand Christians, we used to be Christians (hence the name of the site.)

...convince them how wrong they are and how right you are with reasoned arguments

And you have found this to be an effective method? The people I know generally don't enjoy being shown "how wrong they are." All you can really do is put information out there and hope Christians wake up and smell the coffee, maybe with some nudging in the right direction; that's why this website is such a great resource.

eel_shepherd said...

William wrote:
"...where I come from "BIGGOT" has two "gs" to give the word more meaning if you get my meaning..."

Texas, I'm guessing? If so, you're right, it sailed over my head.

On the city limits of Biggar, SK, the sign reads: "New York is big, but this is Biggar."

Guess I was just in a pissy mood that day.

Anonymous said...

William,

I understand your point in which you make, but I think in the world of atheism we have but one well known outspoken asshole. That would be one of my heros Christopher Hitchens. His no nonsense public comments on Jerry Falwell the day after this fucking asshole was found dead on the floor were priceless. Why can't we have more well known atheists with the balls of Hitchens?

While this place is a no holes barred discussion area, I do think most of us respect the religious as we meet them face to face in our every day world so long as we too are treated with respect.

As I recovering alcoholic I recently met another recovering addict who was a patient of mine. I told her I too had a problem and have been sober for 17 years. She said to me, "Isn't Jesus wonderful to deliver us from our problems?"

I kindly looked at her and said, "No my sobriety is the result of myself and real people in the real world." She looked at me a little stunned that I didn't give that "higher power" any credit, but in a subtle way, I told her I was an atheist without being rude.

Great discussion you have generated William.

Bill

Anonymous said...

If a person believes the Bible, they will conclude that all of us non-Christians are basically worthless sinners full of wickedness. So there really is no use in trying to put a good foot forward. In fact, if we act kind and polite, it can only serve to reinforce the idea that we are cunning demon-spawn who are developing even better techniques of drawing the faithful away from Christ.

twincats said...

I just wanted to add something to anonymous #3's comment:

"...You can continue to kiss your god's ass, but don't expect be to follow suit......."

And we don't have to give you any any respect for for doing it, either!

Anonymous said...

xrayman,
Here! Here! I second the motion! Would that we were all as courageous and eloquent as Christopher Hithchens, one of my heroes as well, who said, "Religious people should be treated with ridicule and contempt." I too have seen his vilification of Jerry Falwell the day after his death, and my only regret was that I wasn't the one saying it. We atheists have the responsibility to let Christians know how contemptible they really are.

Huey said...

zigXrayman said:

"...."No my sobriety is the result of myself and real people in the real world." She looked at me a little stunned that I didn't give that "higher power" any credit, but in a subtle way, I told her I was an atheist without being rude."

Some years back I had a friend (Diane, a recovering alcoholic) who told me that jesus pulled her up out of the gutter. My response was that Diane pulled Diane up out of the gutter. She liked hearing that as it made her feel better about herself and the truth doesn't always have to be painful. Xrayman is right. There are ways to get your point across without being rude. That doesn’t mean we have to cater to the stupidly ignorant with flowers and kindness when they insult our intelligence or even us outright. Regular readers here know that my tolerance for some things, particularly child molestation committed by the self professed pious, can very much be non-existent. My colleagues here have their buttons as well. Push them and they will react and not always to someone else’s bidding. But then there is no obligation for them or I to do otherwise.

That being said, I wonder about this word "arrogant”. It seems to be the ultimate xtian insult. I remember Ted Haggard from Richard Dawkins’ “Root of all Evil?” telling Richard not to be arrogant. Catching Richard somewhat flatfooted he said again “I’m just saying don’t be arrogant”. He seemed to throw this comment out for no reason as it really had nothing to do with the subject at hand. I believe he was trying to divert said subject and when I hear other xtians make the accusation, it is obvious that they are trying to do the same thing. Of course it is also very much an argumentum ad hominem; i.e.: statement: provide proof that Noah’s flood took place; response: you’re arrogant! God’s gonna burn you in hellfire you sinner! Oh now you’ve insulted me. I guess that makes me the loser. Yeah, right!

Is a xtian smugly telling me that I am going to burn in his god’s hell for my unbelief not arrogant? I can see in their eyes the enjoyment such belief brings them. Is it humility to firmly believe in the hideously never ending destruction of your enemies, while privately deriving pleasure from such belief but publicly yet piously claiming sorrow for the intended victims? Is the rudely uttered statement “I’m praying for you!” humble? Is telling me I’m a fool because their god says so, humble? Is it humble to scream obscenities at me, an atheist? (Yes this happens to me from time to time, usually with little or no provocation.) Granted not all xtians are like this but in my experience, most are, especially when pushed. But of course, they aren’t “true christians” (another “humble” belief?).

Is humility the ultimate path to walk down? Or even a desirable one? I don’t think so. In my life it has always been an invitation to get walked upon. I certainly don’t believe in it’s offshoot “turn the other cheek” either. If you see me turn the other cheek, it’s because I‘m looking for a baseball bat to take your stupid ass out with. My father always told me that people who want to “fight fair” are those who have the advantage and want to keep it. They are not interested in fairness so much as they are interested in establishing rules that benefit them. When xtians claim that we are arrogant, they are trying to get us to fight fairly, that is, on their level under their rules. Sorry, I am not a player! Anyway, regardless of how we act, we are always going to be accused of “running away from the truth”. (Thanks for the phrase Anonymous. By the way don’t be afraid to use your name or even a “handle” to coin an old term. It will make it easier to get to know you.)

Yes people here get and are angry at xtians and their ignorant religion. Does anyone think I enjoy or have patience for someone screaming “fuck you” at the top of their lungs at me, simply because I don’t believe in their fantasy? Does anyone think that I should take with a grain of salt the assertion that xtianity is a peaceful religion yet in the same breath decry islam as a false religion which should be made illegal and it’s adherents rounded up and thrown in jail? I have found that the religious are FAR more likely to froth at the mouth than us, their counterparts. Is that too, humble?

Some of my peers have touched on the idea that being humble is nothing more than blindly following some anointed leader and I have to agree. I am not some sheep that must be part of a herd while some vicious yet loving dog circles around me waiting for a mistake on my part. I do not need other people constantly sermonizing to me to know that theft is wrong, that lying about your neighbor is bad, that coveting the ass of your neighbor’s wife is not right (Damn! I’m done for now!). I was raised to run my own life and that means not letting other people run it for me. I am not averse to listening to opposing viewpoints as I am not always correct in my thinking, but hearing them does not in any way obligate me into believing them. In other words I don’t need someone to tell me how to live my life, yet because of that attitude, Xtians feel that I am not open minded (read “humble”) and because of that, will not listen to them or not hear their stupid god in my heart. But they themselves will metaphorically stick their fingers in their ears and start singing la-la-la-la when they encounter opposing viewpoints. They are absolutely convinced that they alone know the truth. What is more arrogant than that?

I am sorry William. I believe that your advice is well intentioned but I do not believe it is valid. I do not feel that we as a group need to change our way of responding, our tactics, if you will. Our webmaster is correct in stating that there is no one way. If an individual poster feels that they need to make a change, then that is their decision. They do not owe the rest of us an explanation any more than we as a group owe explanations to other, most certainly including the hit-n-run xtian posters. Nor does anybody have the right to require that we change. As has been said here in the past “your on our turf now!”. There have been xtians posts on this site that were articulate, kind and well thought out and we have responded in kind. Mostly though there are the other kind, filled with insults (veiled and otherwise), hate and threats and we have responded appropriately. “As ye sow, so shall ye reap”. Hey! That’s catchy!

So xtians, be warned! If you want to post on this site, be prepared to be responded to and not always how you might want it.

Anonymous said...

A few words of caution, indeed.

I have spent the last several years in spouse imposed silence when it comes to religion. Unless someone else brings up the subject, I have to remain silent. I can't even write letters to the local paper on anything I don't agee with. All to keep my marriage together.

On this site, I am able to say whatever I damn well please and not have to worry that I have offended anyone. I like that. Please don't ask me to stop. If people didn't believe in funny shit, we wouldn't make fun of them.

I run a small business of my own and I am forced to keep quiet by the public to a certain degree as well as my spouse. It won't always be this way. With my retirement in a couple of years, I'll get my voice back. I can't wait. Jim Earl

Anonymous said...

IF IT IS TO BE UNDONE, THEN WILLIAM IS RIGHT ON TARGET.

I AGREE WITH WILLIAM. HE HAS WRITTEN SOMETHING ENLIGHTENED.

THE CIVIL RIGHTS MARCHERS WERE HUMBLE, WELL DRESSED, AND POLITE.

WILLIAM MIGHT JUST BE THE "ROSA PARKS' OF THIS MOVEMENT.
SHE WAS A OLD, QUIET, TIRED SEAMSTRESS WHO REFUSRED TO GIVE UP HER SEAT.
WE NEED A QUIET, TIRED OLD SEAMSTRESS, WITH THE KIND OF SPIRIT THAT WILLIAM HAS.

IT WILL BE DIFFICULT FOR A LEADER TO RISE UP HERE AND LEAD THIS GROUP
ON TO DO GREAT THINGS. WE ATTACK EARCH OTHER TOO MUCH BUT A LEADER BEARING THE X CHRISTIAN.NET FLAG IS NEEDED, NOW, MORE THAN EVER.

I WANT TO UNDO THESE WESTBORO MOTHERFUCKERS AND MORE.

GO WILLIAM!

THANK YOU!

Anonymous said...

The group here is like the Arabs. The Arabs can never agree, never unite to destroy Israel. With their combined strength and assets they could but they can't get their shit together long enough to destroy Israel.

Same thing with the group here and there is "fear of retaliation" in the air here. one reader is concerned about his marriage, his business and he can't reply in the paper.

See what the Christian's have bred? A climate of bullying bullshit and fear if you speak out in the newspaper.

Anonymous said...

"Pride goeth before a fall"

Perhaps William does not want us to fall?

It's why I like Willaim.
This crap needs to be fought and fought effectivly and when a wise leader gathers up the group here and leads us into battle it will be exciting to watch gel into formation and more exciting still to be a part of.

Anonymous said...

Yes, you may say whatever you want.
However, my question is?
How good is your aim?
Are you a good shot?
How strong are your hands?
Are you any good in the air?
What are your talents?
Are you brave, fearless,
dedicated?
What new and deadly and un-precedented ideas do you have to share with us to take these idiots out?
Are you ready for hours and hours of training?
We need a Loyola of our own, and we need him or her immediately.

People, we are at war here.

Anonymous said...

As always, a calm and reasoned reply from Webmaster.

I kind of picture him as a patient schoolmaster, trying to do his best with an unruly, ill-behaved and ill-disciplined class!

LOL!

Anonymous said...

William, I can see where you're coming from. A lot of people regardless of their idealogical viewpoint have noticed that people who leave Christians are angry and want to verbally knock down anyone who claims they are Christian and act like arrogant about it or not bother to understand where they are coming from. Being someone who walked away from Christianity last summer, I still find myself having Christian rant sessions with my friends who also walked away from Christianity and yelling at the people on EWTN whenever I'm channel surfing because they don't seem to grasp the difference between fact and opinion with their "my way or the highway" mindset.

I do hope to find peace of mind someday and not come off as a raging monkey when it comes to dealing with Christianity, but until then, to quote the title of the webmaster's main article on this site, I'm not ready to be nice.

Anonymous said...

Humble = old Christian principle.

I'm forever frustrated at how religion has it so sewn up. If you are generous, giving, kind, humble, understanding, tolerant, then apparently you're religious. Apart from being terribly hypocritical, it's just not true. These are human traits, not Christian traits.

The same goes for Christianity claiming that God was there at the very beginning of everything. That means to disprove that, you actually have to get back before anything happened. That argument comes out time and time again. The fact that non-Christians can't prove that there was something before the very start means that somehow the Christian argument holds some substance, despite having no evidence to support it.

It's a very systematically designed and organised cult. It should be though; they've had years to refine it and perfect it. Prayer is self affirmation, heaven is a safety net, only good people believe in God. It's particularly frightening to watch movies like Jesus Camp. Brainwashing children is the most diabolical act that Christians commit, yet they still do it in the belief that they are improving the world.

There's fundamentally little difference between most Christians and the extremists at Westboro Baptist Church. Blind actions in the name of religion.

Please wake up...

Anonymous said...

Anonymous Said:
"If you are generous, giving, kind, humble, understanding, tolerant, then apparently you're religious."

Christians sure aren't tolerant when it comes to accepting people who choose to live an alternative lifestyle.

They claim that "They love the sinner, but they hate the sin". However, most of christians lie when they say that, because they treat most people who live an alternative lifestyle like crap and they deny them their rights.

Christians are the biggest hypocritical liars on this planet. I think most Non-believers are more friendly and accepting than what most christians are.

It's now gotten to a point where I have no desire to have any christian friends period. Most of the christians who I was friends with at one time are no longer a part of my life. I have to say that I do not miss those former friends.

They are your friends until you leave the cult. There is no such thing as "Unconditional" friendship when it comes to christians.

There is always the condition that is attached, and if you choose to think differently, live a different lifestyle, or if you just flat out reject their beliefs, that is when friendship goes out the window with most christians. I don't know how many times I have been told, "We can no longer associate with you unless you repent and turn back to Christ".

They never like my answer of course. I have now gotten to a point where I tell them that unless they can accept me for who I am, then I don't want them in my life either. I do not live my life to please others, and to appeal to the beliefs of christians or any other religion period.

It's a damn shame that most christians believe that you should accept someone just because of their beliefs. True love and acceptance is when you accept people for who they are, not what they believe.

Christians can say that Jesus is all about love all they want, however just take a look around. Christianity is all about hating those who choose to be different and it is about hating those who choose to believe something different. It's basically wrong to think for yourself and think outside the "Christian Box".

Christians also think that America is going down hill because they took prayers out of school. Bullshit. Look at the divorce rate among christians. It's around 60 percent.

There is no unity among christians. They have no room to talk and carry on with their little arrogant attitudes.

Anonymous said...

Thank you webmaster for a clear response to what this site is really all about.

Wow...huey, I can't say enough about your response. It resonates with so much of the truth as I see it. The "I'll pray for you" hits the nail right on the head. Thankx

black swede..... I hear ya.
Head up young person.

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