I was shocked ... that such a website exists
From Andrew D
I am sorry that the curch as we know it has failed so many people.
Chritianity is about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, not a personal relationship with man although that is part of it. If there is no love, all other things are meaningless.
I would like to encourage those who have been hurt, neglected or condemned by fellow man, there is a thing called unconditional love but you won't experience it from man. Man will fail each other time and time again. We have to look past the ills of man and hope for better things.
I am a Christian and I understand why people have turned there back on God, I have come close but I realise that it has always been because man has let me down or because I can't see the resons for certain things happening in my life. Our understanding is so limited and if we would realise surrendering our lives completely and trusting in God we would see drastic changes in our lives for the better but we fear not been in control of our own destinies, I know I do.
I was shocked and interested to see that such a website exists and saddened as well.
No one said been a Christian was easy and I laugh at people who say we use it as a crutch, give me a break. It is the easiest thing in the world to do whatever you want but to stand for your beliefs in the face of adversity, well that takes courage. I struggle with issues but I know that God loves me and will never leave or forsake me. I do need to be more obedient though. Perceptions of Christians must change and Christians must get down from there pedistalls.
We are all human and not one of us is perfect but lets at least tolerate each other.
Take it easy guys, lets not go pissing on one anothers beliefs.
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I am sorry that the curch as we know it has failed so many people.
Chritianity is about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, not a personal relationship with man although that is part of it. If there is no love, all other things are meaningless.
I would like to encourage those who have been hurt, neglected or condemned by fellow man, there is a thing called unconditional love but you won't experience it from man. Man will fail each other time and time again. We have to look past the ills of man and hope for better things.
I am a Christian and I understand why people have turned there back on God, I have come close but I realise that it has always been because man has let me down or because I can't see the resons for certain things happening in my life. Our understanding is so limited and if we would realise surrendering our lives completely and trusting in God we would see drastic changes in our lives for the better but we fear not been in control of our own destinies, I know I do.
I was shocked and interested to see that such a website exists and saddened as well.
No one said been a Christian was easy and I laugh at people who say we use it as a crutch, give me a break. It is the easiest thing in the world to do whatever you want but to stand for your beliefs in the face of adversity, well that takes courage. I struggle with issues but I know that God loves me and will never leave or forsake me. I do need to be more obedient though. Perceptions of Christians must change and Christians must get down from there pedistalls.
We are all human and not one of us is perfect but lets at least tolerate each other.
Take it easy guys, lets not go pissing on one anothers beliefs.
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Comments
I'd cordially suggest two things
1) try and crawl out from the thrall of a Dark Age superstition
2) Get a spelling checker... if you're going to proselytise, then at least you could have typed it correctly... sheesh!
I understand where you are coming from as I was a christian for over 30 years. But it is a illusion. There isn't a god to believe in. You are also wrong as it wasn't getting hurt by someone that sobered me to the Atheistic reality. It was the deeper search for historical accuracy of the Christian faith in order to prove it correct that caused the house of cards to fall. The Bible, as all religious books are, made by men and filled with inaccuracies. Lie upon lie are stacked on one another by the believers in order to keep the delusion of the faithful going.
I challenge you to read the Bible from cover to cover. Without all the commentaries explaining away the nonsense it doesn't add up.
Take care and have a great day.
However, your post shows that you probably did not spend much time looking around on here. If you had, you might have noticed that most of the participants did NOT leave Christianity due to the actions of other people. (Often, that was part of the story, but it simply caused the person to realize larger truths.) No, actually, almost all of us left it because of the religion itself.
You might be surprised to know that most of us are better "versed" in the Bible than the average Christian. We were once just like you and the people at your church (if you attend one.) That may be very difficult to believe, but it is absolutely true. For example, just a few years ago, I was a teenager who taught Sunday School, worked in the church office, volunteered left and right at church, prayed constantly, attended services each week, went to youth group at a friend's church, and was a part of my high school's Christian fellowship group. My parents took my sister and I to church every week since we were tiny, and both of them were active in the church. I asked Jesus into my heart when I was 7; I was confirmed at 12. I read little sections of Psalms most nights before bed. I read religious books, trying to find answers to all of the questions and concerns I had. I wanted to serve God for my whole life. I cared about my church's future. When I started college, I continued to go to a church there every Sunday morning (pretty unusual for a college student!) I was a sincere believer, trying hard to be a "good Christian."
I was not a quasi-Christian, hoping to find an excuse to not believe. But then... using my natural ability to think and reason, the entirety of my belief system became suspect. It was a long and gradual process, consisting of thinking, reading, PRAYING, writing, talking to others, researching, analyzing, etc., but eventually I realized that I could no longer call myself a Christian.
I now am an atheist, and while some of my philosophies and attitudes have shifted, I am still the same passionate person. I am still a kind, caring girl, one who cares about what her parents think and wants to help everyone she sees in need. I care so much about making the world better. In some ways, my thinking is more altruistic than when I was a Christian.
Perhaps I was too caught up in religion, you might say, and not in having a "relationship" with God. To that, I say, you don't know much about me. I very much wanted a relationship with God, and sought "Him" out in so many ways... only to be generally disappointed. Both my logical side and my emotional side agree- Christianity is not true and it is not for me. (Sometimes my emotional side gets caught up in old habits, but that's happening less and less as time goes on, thankfully.) I have grown so much as a person as a result of my deconversion.
This is beginning to sound like my anti-testimony, which I didn't really intend to do right now. I suppose my big "point" was that your perception of ex-Christians is very naive and uninformed. We've heard all of the Christian arguments about why we should stay in the faith, believe me. Some of us have to hear them on a daily basis from their family! Many members of this site have read all or almost all of the Bible. We aren't making uninformed choices. We are more experienced than you can imagine.
Andrew, you may not realize it, but you sound exactly like hundreds of other Christian visitors to this site. It is very typical for Christians to have misconceptions about ex-Christians- some even deny our existence!
And as far as not "pissing" on others' beliefs, well, first of all, what you wrote sure didn't sound very respectful or supportive of us. Secondly, this is a site made for ex-Christians- it's really not for anyone else, and if you don't like it, leave. There are plenty of Christian sites. Believe it or not, many members suffer terrible emotional consequences due to their years as Christians. Others suffer from social and familial ostracization due to their deconversion. This site is for venting and supporting- it's a safe place for trashing a belief system.
Finally, I don't believe that an idea deserves respect just because someone believes it. Certainly, we should be tolerant (and it may or may not be appropriate to try to change someone's mind,) but I don't think everything automatically deserves respect, Christianity included.
Thanks, I guess, for your thoughts, and if you don't intend to genuinely think about what all of us have said in response, please know that your hypocrisy is terrible typical and shows an aversion to the fair discussion of ideas. Do I sound somewhat hostile? I'm not, really, but it does anger me somewhat that your post shows so little research and thought.
As for "pissing on each other's beliefs:" Go right ahead. Just so you know, if anyone states that the earth is flat, or that the Holocaust never happened; I will call that person on his or her lie.
Biblegod's love is not unconditional. He/they (three gods in one!) will cast those who don't flatter his ego will be tossed into the imaginary world of Hell. Please. Don't lie.
Moreover, many of us were not hurt nor neglected by Christians. We read the Bible and listened to dull, droning sermons and figured it our for ourselves (see whateverlolawants's post which is much more eloquent than mine).
Amen to that! It sure does. Trying coming out as an atheist when your whole social support network are Christian. Talk about adversity. You are completely correct when you say it takes courage.
Truly,
Jamie.
Obedient?! What is this nonsense? Tell me, who are you being obedient to, your god or your pastor who "speaks" for god? Why do Christians think that being obedient is something to be admired? No wonder they use words like sheep and flock as descriptive terms.
Andrew D is just another of the "why do you hate god" types, who is personally too afraid to pull their nose out of the bible and look at the world around them.
"Our understanding is so limited"
No, yours is. I make a very real effort to understand reality as it exists.
Your religion makes very real claims on the nature of the universe and they are all demonstrably wrong. Not open to interpretation - simply wrong!
I'm sorry to piss on your beliefs, but just because you believe something doesn't mean its true. Your beliefs are simply wrong. If your religion can't stand up to the truth, maybe it should no longer exist.
xrayman
Where was this consideration when I encounter christians who are intolerate of my beliefs. We piss on christianity because without it we would be trampled. We piss on the countless number of people who would like for us to just go away. We piss on those that see our mere existance a threat. WE have been there, and is has not been a pleasant experience.
It's not just the followers that made us de-convert, but the God also. Time and time again christians prove themselves the worst group of people possibe. Christians do horrible atrosities in the name of God and feel justified.
This site is my haven, so don't piss on it. This site is my home, so don't piss on it. This site is my escape religion, so don't you even dare piss on it. If you do not like it, why are you here? No one asked you to come and you do not have to return.
"Unconditional Love"? You mean the lonely hours spent begging "gawd" through tears and anguish for SOME kind of sign that he/she/it truly CARED? What a crock. At least my "earthly" father would wale the crap out of me once in a while, just to teach me to not get "uppity"
As a "father", biblegawd is just like one of those Sports that run out on you and you never see or hear from them.
And Andrew? You want to get an idea how easy it is to be an Atheist in this increasingly Dominionist culture of ours, why don't you take your KJV and a bunch of Chick tracts and go proselytize in downtown Rihyad.
Now, go run along and phone Pastor with your "Praise Report" about how you wrestled with principalities and powers by throwing your spitball at the evil old Gawd-Haters...
John of Indiana
BTW, I'm not doing whatever I want, but whatever promotes harmony, productivity, and joy in the circles of my association.
Funny how I left the god belief behind, and look: no unbridled urge to engage in irresponsible sex, no murder, no stealing. The devil is no more real than god, and the only sin is to be a shit head. We can all figure out what that means for ourselves.
This is hands-down the most common thing I hear, and - I shudder to admit - I have on more than one occasion preached the same garbage.
One question back for the OP - how EXACTLY does your so-called personal relationship with Jesus Christ work? I can understand that YOU talk to him, but does he talk back?
Whether or not anyone is listening when you are praying is an open question, but I'm intrigued at how your personal relationship with the Lord takes place? If you can answer me that and answer me honestly, I'll be on the first train back to your city.
I often hear the term "unconditional love" when christians talk about Jesus/God. That human beings fail to provide such love, and only God can. The problem is, that if one merely reads the bible and/or christian doctrine believed by orthodoxy, not only is God's love conditional, it is not actually love by definition (since the entire premise is based on fear, threats of violence, and torture). Humans understand that love is affection, selflessness, and certainly NOT using threats or violence.
What does the bible say about God? It says this....He that believes and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damned. So, apparently there is a condition (a very trivial condition one might expect on "let's make a deal"). Even the bible says such conditions exist. The only reason Christians often invoke the "unconditional love" phrase to their god is to win new converts or try to make their god appear like a really "nice" guy. But the bible itself shows this to be false.
The fact one has to be deceptive about this one subject is just the tip of the iceberg. It is a cleverly manipulated psychological trick which works, and that is why christianity has survived, because humans are still as superstitious as they were 2000 years ago.
Take away the fear of hell, fear of supernatural curses, guilt over victimless crimes, etc, and christianity would have nothing to offer people. So much for "unconditional love".
But you know what? Without the noise of church and the teaching of man, God is nothing but a vapor – or less, an idea and a bad one at that.
God wasn’t there anymore than Santa Claus was – anymore than the Easter Bunny – anymore than the next person to ring my door bell is Ed McMahon with a 10 million dollar check. You can hope that he is real – you can even do some impressive gymnastics-with-fallacy to convince yourself that he really is there and really does care about you. But he doesn’t – he was never there. He is simply whipped up emotion and the personification of hoped for cosmic benevolence.
It wasn’t people who let me down. Heck, I still like people quite a bit! It was God that wasn’t there – God that let me down – God that didn’t stack up to what he said about himself – God that failed when I needed him most (and I believed in him as strongly as you ever will… You may doubt that, but wouldn’t that be “pissing on” my beliefs?)
Now – some may argue that God did answer – just not the way I wanted him to. They have a point. I didn’t want or pray for years of deafening silence. They may also say that I wasn’t patient enough. If by that you mean that I had to sacrifice my life to dropping pennies into an empty well my entire life, then no – I was not patient enough.
With Christians, it is always a shell game. If I leave the church, it is because of the people. Dispute that point and it is because I am not praying enough. Tell them that I am not a part of a church and that I can’t seem to hear God, they tell me I need to go to church to be around his people. And the circle of lies goes round…
Andrew – you know nothing about us I assume – and I am certain that you know nothing about me. You do not know how much faith I put in God – how much I wanted him to be real – how much I sought a relationship with him. IF I am wrong and IF God actually exits, do you know what my search for him proves? It proves Tyler Durden correct when he says, “You have to consider the possibility that God does not like you. He never wanted you. In all probability, he hates you.” That is what his action… Errr… Utter INaction proves. That is what his radical silence means to me.
I will not piss on your beliefs if you do not piss on my experience. To say that my experience is based upon the actions of people is offensive, belittling and ignorant.
While a christian, I observed a jewish and then a muslim religious service. Interesting how similar the three major monotheistic religions are. I heard a zealot insulting people at a local university. The person boasted that the god of islam was a god of war. I asked this person when the last time was that he'd read the old testament.
His reply was "That doesn't apply anymore. We were under the law and now we are under grace."
"Isn't God the same yesterday, today, and forever?"
I was a christian for over ten years. It wasn't until I started learning more about the bible that I doubted.
I came to the conclusion that the god proclaimed by modern christianity does not exist.
Here's how
The description of god that I've heard is that god is omnipotent (all powerful), omniscient (all knowing), and omnipresent (he's everywhere).
I'm a logical person, so I've always wanted to reason things out. Please don't give me the whole "God is beyond our understanding." To me that to accept such a statement means that if there were a god then he/she/it would want me to be intellectually dishonest.
I live in america, so the events of 9/11/01 and more recently the aftermath of hurricane katrina bring up many questions about this god.
This god if they would have wanted to prevent such events didn't for one reason or another.
Possibly god didn't know this was going to happen, but that would mean that god wasn't omniscient.
Christianity says that god is omniscient, so then god must have known abut them. Therefore, god didn't prevent such death and tragedy from happening because of either not having the power to or not wanting to.
Christianity says that god is omnipotent (all poweful). So god would have had the ability to prevent these tragedies.
According to christianity, I am left with god knew and had the power to prevent horrible tragedies from happening, but god chose not to act.
So you seem to have a mal intentioned god, that or god is an impotent, ignorant, or the opposite of omnipresent (omnipresent = everywhere, so the opposite must be nowhere) a nowhere god.
not aware of this website. The last
thing Christian leaders want people
to know about is a site where the
myths, superstitions, and hang-ups
of an ancient civilization are met
with logic, reason, and research.
And Joe: Your line "the only sin is to be a shit-head" was priceless! That should be hanging
on the wall of every fundamentalist and evangelical church in the country!
He could apply at the north pole to become one of Santa's little helpers, though.
They almost never come back! Do your blood pressure a favor...........stop answering these idiots!
One exchristian.net blogger should give the very first answer and it should be............. Hey fundy, are you willing to discuss this issue?
Then we should all wait and see if the cowardly IT comes back! If IT does, then you can open fire!
All you anony-bots, sign your entry with a name!
NOELL
If I'd drop a thread like the one on this website:
http://www.evilbible.com/Top_Ten_List.htm
on any christian forum I'd get IP banned in a matter of seconds!
Shocked, what kind of sheltered life do you live in? Of all the denominations out there, your most shocked at a ex-christian website?!
We are all human and not one of us is perfect but lets at least tolerate each other.
Take it easy guys, lets not go pissing on one anothers beliefs.
Piss on you. What do you mean take it easy, you were the one who came in here and nearly attacked the site because it doesnt believe all the crap that Xtians mindlessly spew. And I dont want to hear you talk of tolerance, when you came in here and were "shocked and saddened" at this website, go fuck yourself with a loaf of bread, and kill yourself, because God hates you.
Postings from the trolls - and the fact that the trolls either hurl their load of horse pucky and disappear or else, if they return, are unable to show any rational basis for their beliefs - provides good examples of what's wrong with christianity. And I believe that helps a lot of fence-sitters make the decision to deconvert.
Besides, ridiculing the trolls is sort of fun. So, it's win-win all the way!
Second, you said "I know that God loves me and will never leave or forsake me". If I remember my mythological studies, did not jesus as he was dying on the cross say, "My god, why have you forsaken me!".
You can have a personal relationship with any invisible object/person/diety and receive the same results. Children do this all the time when they play with their imaginary friends!
What adversity? Living in a country where somewhere on the order of 80% of the population identify themselves with your religion? Way to hold the fort against the infidel hordes, bucko!
In fact, what you feel as "adversity" is the suppressed knowledge that what you are actually doing is "standing for your beliefs in the face of reality."
Oh, and if by "unconditional love" you mean the "love" god has for us provided we worship his ass (and will burn us for eternity if we don't), then yeah, I'm pretty sure I won't be experiencing that relationship with any other human being. No humans I know are that selfish and cruel.
Although I am not atheist I am vehemently anti Christian. Do I mean I hate Christians? certainly not, for many I feel pity like I would for a drug addict that can't get straight. It is not the foot soldiers of Chrisatianity we battle but the policy makers who have authored the fantastically innane logic of the Bibles and forced modern people to live by them - or else!
An extremely comical example of the disorientation of religious logic - the Quakers. They speaketh of thee and thou as if it were the words of Jesus, when it is the language of William Shakespeare - the most elequent version of English of that time. It is this lemming-like blind herding that makes the Christian look foolish.
On the darker side it is the ugly history of Christianity that makes it the second most dangerous religion in the world. In sheer terms of body count, Christianity still has Islam beat - they are just slow learners and working hard to catch up with with the west.
In short, your concept of universal love, doing the right thing, etc., exists comfortably, worldwide, without the "caring" guidence of the corporate Christian money machine.
In truth, YOUR Christianity infringes upon my rights to freedom from state religion. Your army of audacious evangelists pummel our children with your dogmas in hopes of dragging them into your insanity. Christians infringe by being pushy, irritating soldiers bent on conquest - making the whole world think just like they do. Thank God their strangle hold on sanity is slipping. Read the Old Testament IN ENTIRETY, and ask yourself about this Bible based law: What would I do if my daughter were dragged to my front door in the middle of the night and murdered in front of my wife and I? Levitican "justice" of tortously being beaten to death by stoning? Her crime - she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night. And what of the outraged groom being "satisfied" that justice was done. Burn the Bibles, beg forgiveness for what has been done in God's name and rebuild your faith around Jesus' simple principles - then call yourself a Christian!
I forgot to mention, what is all this crap about monotheism? Christianity has all the gods of the ancient Greeks and more. The only difference lies in nomenclature. What is Satan if not a god of evil? If he is not a "god" why then doesn't "God" get rid of the bastard?
Christianity follows the Hellenic model to a T – remember Zeus was the main god then. Here’s a comparison:
•Zeus = God
•Hera = “the Blessed Virgin”
•Hades = Satan
•Aphrodite = Mary the Magdalene (except in Christianity she’s a whore for it)
•Hermes = any number of lesser messenger deities. The bible is full of them
•Bacchus = any number of “fallen angels” who cavort freely.
To keep this from being a tome, let me state that there is a plethora of saints – one for every conceivable cause.
"This is beginning to sound like my anti-testimony, which I didn't really intend to do right now."
Don't worry about it! Rock On!!!
OK, I can see your point. I had a moment. However, I would much rather ridicule the trolls only if they stick around to make it much easier and poignantly delightful.
I don’t believe in fence sitting. If you are lurking, then you have doubts. The line has been crossed. Time is all you need. There are hundreds of testimonials and logical debates on the inconsistency and fallibility of the bible to read from on this site. But a little affirmation in the form of a good troll beating can’t hurt and like you said, it’s fun!
Sieghart wrote:
Piss on you. What do you mean take it easy, you were the one who came in here and nearly attacked the site because it doesn't believe all the crap that Xtians mindlessly spew. And I dont want to hear you talk of tolerance, when you came in here and were "shocked and saddened" at this website, go fuck yourself with a loaf of bread, and kill yourself, because God hates you.
This is the kind of crap we don’t need here. I know your angry, but this is worse than any troll! This is infantile and if you can’t articulate your feelings any better than this, perhaps you should seek help.
Noell
Andrew wrote:
I have come close but I realise that it has always been because man has let me down
Lorena says:
No one let me down. No one.
I let MYSELF down by believing that the Bible was true and that the pastors were right.
It was my fault that I didn't notice it was all a fantasy, a construct of my imagination.
The personal relationship with Jesus is a good exercise of self-brainwashing. A person must imagine Jesus and imagine what he thinks or what he would do. What a waste of time!
"An extremely comical example of the disorientation of religious logic - the Quakers. They speaketh of thee and thou as if it were the words of Jesus, when it is the language of William Shakespeare - the most elequent version of English of that time. It is this lemming-like blind herding that makes the Christian look foolish."
Lorena wonders:
Hmm.... I wonder which Quakers thou speaketh of.
The ones I know are humanists, atheists, and speak plain English.
Are you, perhaps, talking about the Amish?
By the way, I am NOT a Quaker, but I attended meetings for a while a few years ago.
"...I am a Christian and I understand why people have turned [their] back on God, I have come close but..." etc. etc.
No, AndrewD., (not to be confused with an AndroiD), the reason you stayed Xtian is that you were never a true unbeliever in the first place. ;-]
BTW, if you want to see what the courage to stand in the face of adversity looks like, watch this short video:
http://www.exchristian.net/2/2007/05/price-of-atheism.html
Oh, and, Empty-Space-Formerly-Occupied-By-AndrewD, will you be my special imaginary friend?
This is the kind of crap we don’t need here. I know your angry, but this is worse than any troll! This is infantile and if you can’t articulate your feelings any better than this, perhaps you should seek help.
You are correct, I apologise. But I am tired of Xtians coming in here and attacking this site, whereas if we even brought up the subject of becoming an ex-christian on their site, they would crucify us.
It's not run by her rules.
Actually, You dont understand unless you deconvert. Also, dont presume that we ex christians have turned our backs on God when christianity is based on GODS SON and not jehova himself. If that statement were remotely true the christians would be called Jehova's witnesses. As an atheist said: how do you know your God is the right one? What if *worshipping Jesus* makes Tyr and Venus mad? Man has not let me down, I let myself down by believing that there is no other religion that was right for me. I discovered the virtues and tolerance of Paganism, something i could never get with christianity was inner happiness. Oh and the magic you consider evil? its just part of the world God created, and saying satan is in charge of the earth does NOT make it true! I feel sorry for you, your religion is stolen from other folklore yet you have the gall to condescend us for being ex christians! My husband had four NDEs and i trust his experience more than any bible, but i trust my minor experiences as well. Go on believe in the bible, while many people pity your small mindedness.
I ask you to please do one of two things:
1) Admit that you, muttmutt, have turned your back on Krishna, or
2) Stop projecting such idiotic concepts on the rest of us.
Thanks a bunch.
I think MuttMutt was quoting from the original article and following it up with a rant against the author's premise.
That said, my request above is now directed toward Andrew D; that is, Andrew, can you please do one of the two things I listed two posts above this one? Thanks.