Church rebate offer
I'm an ex-Christian will a story that you may have never heard before.
After 16 years of being an ex-Christian, I decided to see if I could get a refund on the money that I tithed to the church over the eight years that I was a believer. My years in the faith were divided between two different fellowships. I contacted my last pastor, and requested a refund of the money that I donated. He agreed to a refund and I am currently receiving a monthly check from them.
Even if you don't have documentation (I didn't either) of your giving, you might be able to get your money back.....I did, and let me tell you...it is so sweet!!
How did I do it?
First here is a short testimony:
I got 'saved' back in 1981. I attended a non-denominational church for about five years. I then left that fellowship and began attendance at Calvary Chapel. I became the worship/music minister. After three years I left the church. This was around 1989.
My experience with leaving the church is pretty typical. I was burned out on spending all my time and effort dealing with the music ministry. I left the church on very good terms with the pastor.
In the years that followed my leaving, I read and researched for answers to all the questions that had troubled me during my service to gods kingdom. I did not trust my pastor or fellow Christians to give me straight answers to my questions. After years of independent research, I now consider myself to be an atheist.
In my reflection on the years I spent in the ministry, I realized that I could never get back the time that I had invested. But maybe I could, at least receive back some of the money I had given.
I believed that whenever I put my tithe in the offering box, I was giving back to god. It was already 'his money'. I believed that the matter was totally between me and god. The church was simply the 'bagman' for my contribution.
Since my de-conversion, I now understand that I was psychologically manipulated into handing over ten percent of my income to the church. The pastor preaches about giving in such a way that if you don't give according to his scriptural interpretation, you are not a REAL Christian. This made me think: If I'm giving money to the church for the work of god, then it is a transaction strictly between myself and god. So....if I change my mind, and want my money back, the church should honor my request in the same way that they honored my contribution. It made sense to me.
I then contacted (via email) my ex-pastor and POLITELY requested a refund of all the money I had donated to the church in the time that I had been attending there. He admitted that he found the request unusual, but was willing to honor my wish.
Then it got down to business: Did I have any documentation of my contributions? Not really..... It had been over 16 years since my attendance at the fellowship, and I had not kept any records going back that far. Either had the church. The IRS could have given me documentation of my charitable donations for the years in question, but they would only show that donations had been claimed. The IRS docs would not show an itemization of who received the contribution. No help there. The bank account on which I wrote the checks had been closed and the branch was no longer in business.
It came down to this: My appeal was directly to my ex-pastor. He knew that I was completely dedicated (spiritually and financially) to the ministry while at the fellowship. He knew that I was trustworthy. Because we had such a close and friendly relationship during my years at the church, he simply put me in communication with the church accountant. The accountant and I negotiated an estimate of what my contributions probably amounted to, and we arrived at a dollar figure. They now are making monthly payments and I pinch myself every time the check arrives.
If this all sound too simple and unreal, understand this....For the sake of time, I have left out MANY details of the story. The only thing that I will add to this introduction, is the fact that all my correspondence with the pastor, secretary, and accountant was always pleasant, respectful, and to the point. At no time was I ever threatening or critical. I never discussed my personal spiritual opinions. I requested (not demanded) a refund of any amount that they would feel to be fair. My goal was to see if they believed what they had taught from the pulpit. Luckily for me, it appears they do.
I would suggest that before you begin a similar project, that you get all the information available in regards to your particular churches' policies on the subject of donations.
.....GOOD LUCK!!
Billy Braun
After 16 years of being an ex-Christian, I decided to see if I could get a refund on the money that I tithed to the church over the eight years that I was a believer. My years in the faith were divided between two different fellowships. I contacted my last pastor, and requested a refund of the money that I donated. He agreed to a refund and I am currently receiving a monthly check from them.
Even if you don't have documentation (I didn't either) of your giving, you might be able to get your money back.....I did, and let me tell you...it is so sweet!!
How did I do it?
First here is a short testimony:
I got 'saved' back in 1981. I attended a non-denominational church for about five years. I then left that fellowship and began attendance at Calvary Chapel. I became the worship/music minister. After three years I left the church. This was around 1989.
My experience with leaving the church is pretty typical. I was burned out on spending all my time and effort dealing with the music ministry. I left the church on very good terms with the pastor.
In the years that followed my leaving, I read and researched for answers to all the questions that had troubled me during my service to gods kingdom. I did not trust my pastor or fellow Christians to give me straight answers to my questions. After years of independent research, I now consider myself to be an atheist.
In my reflection on the years I spent in the ministry, I realized that I could never get back the time that I had invested. But maybe I could, at least receive back some of the money I had given.
I believed that whenever I put my tithe in the offering box, I was giving back to god. It was already 'his money'. I believed that the matter was totally between me and god. The church was simply the 'bagman' for my contribution.
Since my de-conversion, I now understand that I was psychologically manipulated into handing over ten percent of my income to the church. The pastor preaches about giving in such a way that if you don't give according to his scriptural interpretation, you are not a REAL Christian. This made me think: If I'm giving money to the church for the work of god, then it is a transaction strictly between myself and god. So....if I change my mind, and want my money back, the church should honor my request in the same way that they honored my contribution. It made sense to me.
I then contacted (via email) my ex-pastor and POLITELY requested a refund of all the money I had donated to the church in the time that I had been attending there. He admitted that he found the request unusual, but was willing to honor my wish.
Then it got down to business: Did I have any documentation of my contributions? Not really..... It had been over 16 years since my attendance at the fellowship, and I had not kept any records going back that far. Either had the church. The IRS could have given me documentation of my charitable donations for the years in question, but they would only show that donations had been claimed. The IRS docs would not show an itemization of who received the contribution. No help there. The bank account on which I wrote the checks had been closed and the branch was no longer in business.
It came down to this: My appeal was directly to my ex-pastor. He knew that I was completely dedicated (spiritually and financially) to the ministry while at the fellowship. He knew that I was trustworthy. Because we had such a close and friendly relationship during my years at the church, he simply put me in communication with the church accountant. The accountant and I negotiated an estimate of what my contributions probably amounted to, and we arrived at a dollar figure. They now are making monthly payments and I pinch myself every time the check arrives.
If this all sound too simple and unreal, understand this....For the sake of time, I have left out MANY details of the story. The only thing that I will add to this introduction, is the fact that all my correspondence with the pastor, secretary, and accountant was always pleasant, respectful, and to the point. At no time was I ever threatening or critical. I never discussed my personal spiritual opinions. I requested (not demanded) a refund of any amount that they would feel to be fair. My goal was to see if they believed what they had taught from the pulpit. Luckily for me, it appears they do.
I would suggest that before you begin a similar project, that you get all the information available in regards to your particular churches' policies on the subject of donations.
.....GOOD LUCK!!
Billy Braun
Comments
Naomi
So I know I'll never see that $200 again. I hope he chokes on it. The creep!
I'm glad he doesn't know where I live either. I don't need HIM in my life.
I think there should be a law (well, no, we have too many laws already but what the heck... what's another?) that says that if a person deconverted, and want their money back, a church has to refund it and that all churches must keep records of who gave how much so in case of a refund they can give it back.
That'd make them be more careful who they screw over too. As I've heard of some money-fraud situations in churches in various articles.
And churches should be considered "Entertainment" and thus NOT exempt to taxation! Nor religious doctrine should be considered for things like public policy.
Ah so we can only wish.
Now if I could only swine one of those big evangalical churches of a few thousand dollars, I'd be a happy man.
I really did get a refund from my ex-fellowship. I left the church on very good terms. All I did was email my ex-pastor and explain that I gave the money in faith and now I would like it returned. I was very non-threatening, polite and respectful. He said ok and put me in touch with the church accountaint. He and I worked out a fair dollar amount based on my honest recollection of what I gave to the fellowship. They are sending a check every month till the balance is paid. I can hardly believe it myself....
Billy B.
leaf
J. Brown
"How is it that you get saved?
Salvation is something that you cannot get.
It is either given or it is not given, It is all of God choice, not ours...
Those who are believers in this economy of God's grace, were saved before the foundation of the world.
(Ephesians.1:1-13). We have no say-so in the matter what-so-ever...
"All is of God"
He is the one operating all in accord with the counsel of His will. "Not our will"
To speak as a man is synnonymous with speaking as a fool...
If you give something then you have no claim on that gift, a gift is a gift... You "We" no longer have a claim to it.. You have no right to it anymore...
"You" got 'saved' back in 1981. I attended a non-denominational church for about five years. I then left that fellowship and began attendance at Calvary Chapel. I became the worship/music minister. (Just what is this terminology)? music ministry?
After three years I left the (that) so-called church. This was around 1989.
My experience with leaving the church is pretty typical. I was burned out on spending all my time and effort dealing with the music ministry. I left the church on very good terms with the pastor.
I have been there and done that!
"Christian Fellowship" is not a matter of doctrine. It is for those in the "Christ"
You need to hash these issues out with your fellow believers..not me. I don't buy any of it any more......have fun.
billy b.
I don't think there is any chance of me getting of the money my old pastor robbed me of, besides I've fallen out with one of his daughters and wouldn't speak to him for that reason alone. But even if i did try, i wouldn't fancy my chances..but again well done for getting your rightful money back!
Billy B.
If you decided that you no longer wanted to be an American, and you moved to the Netherlands and became a citizen, the United States wouldn't refund you the money that you gave to the government to support the country to which you no longer belonged. The same is true of your church.
If you belong to a sports team's fan club, and after 10 years of supporting the team, you decided that they were never going to win a championship, the fan club wouldn't refund your money. Even if the team went bankrupt, you wouldn't be entitled to a refund. You made a decision to support that team, and your financial loss is your problem.
If someday your pastor admitted that he had been lying to you for so many years, THEN you could be given your money back. But what pastor is going to do that? Religion isn't subject to proof, because it's built on faith. You'll never be able to prove that Jesus wasn't God's Son, so why should you be given your money back by a church because you no longer believe?
I don't know why the pastor agreed to refund my money. You would have to ask him for his reason. I suspect that his reason for returning my money is the fact that we were/are friends and he respected my request. There could be a more complicated answer...again; I got the refund without any proof. All I had was my honest word that I had in fact made the contribution.Evidently that's good enough for some folks.
Billy B.
I did walk away from the church as a result of how the church treats it's people. The good news is that once I separated myself from the non-stop conditioning that I was allowing myself to be subjected to, I was able to see how I was being tricked into believing things that really don't make sense. I wouldn't expect anyone in the faith to believe me, but, I am finally really happy. You might have to figure it out yourself, I hope you do.
Billy B.
Yeah...I can't remember a time when I had a chick piss off at me, and it somehow turned into a cash rebate...byw..thanks for the vote of confidence. I'm just giving tim a hard time cause I'm hoping we can all have a laugh over this...like I said: I can hardly believe it myself...
Billy B
Stop trying to re-convert us.
You are only making us tired and annoyed. We believe the Bible to be an ancient collection of stories and we have no interest in adapting our lives to a two thousand year old doctrine. Please, before you put your book in our faces, think and answer yourself this: Am I really going to reconvert them? If not, why bother posting?
Yes, right on,THANK YOU!!!!! I was once married to a woman and all we did was argue and disagree for years. I finally decide I was through with trying to change someone elses mind. It rarely (if ever) works, unless they are truely and sincerly seeking rational solutions for the problems at hand. I refuse to argue with people who are unable to admit when they are so obviously wrong. Typically this results in reinforcing their dogmatic position....but that's their problem. All I can hope is that some day some way, something breaks through the wall. Life is too short to spend my time feeling responsible for someone elses ignorance. That was the how the church wished for me to live, and it really is a waste of caring.
Billy B.
I understand your pain "Jesus Fucked a Prostitute in the Ass" it's obvious you didn't have a pleasent "Contemporary Christian" expierence, nor did I---however, I vent through blogging: www.ifjesuswereapopsicle.blogspot.com
I've often joked that if I had the balls and total lack of scruples, it would be so easy to fleece the flock. As a musician I have seen how powerful music is as a devise to put 'em under the ether. Let's start a cult....wadda ya say?
Billy B.
The same year my wife totaled her car.With liability only,we couldn't afford another.
This caused undo stress on our marriage. I left the church and ministry that same year.
She divorced me soon after.
I've often thought about asking for my money back,...thanks for you post! freedy
I believe that there were two factors that brought my results. 1st-I left the church in excellent standing. 2nd-My attitude was non-threatning and I was sincerly willing to graciously accept however they wished to deal with my request.
It took all the courage that I could muster just to initiate contact with my ex-pastor. He is very carismatic and I am easily intimidated by him. The last thing I wanted was a big nasty battle of opinion on church doctrine.
I also had to deal with two assistant pastors before my ex-pastor could deal with me.
I think that nice people can work things out. Give it a shot and be happy with whatever they decide. nothing to lose, ya know?
Billy B.
Yeah, I'm pretty tough at the keyboard...ha ha.
seriously....I just thought that all they could say is 'no'. Why not ask....? If the whole point of giving at church is to demonstrate your faith, then the dollar amout isn't the the issue. So...since it's not the money.....give er back, jack.
Billy B.
Just when I thought I heard it all.
One observation:
The pastor sounds like a much more honorable person than you. Apparently he values you more than your money. I wonder if you've considered that?