Many thanks


Many thanks for this MUCH NEEDED EXCELLENT website! I think it truly shows just how many people have been fucked up by Christianity! Christianity HAS to be exposed for the evil it actually is!!

Many thanks for the opportunity of finding a site that makes me feel normal again!!

All the best to you and yours!



Anonymous said...

Yes, I totally agree with you. I know that when I was a christian for the first 15 years, I thought Satan was in control of the world and had more power than the biblegod. I was told the biblegod lost his authority in the world because of Adam and Eve's fall. Talk about a stupid excuse. It's like the biblegod is a bumbling fool, but they don't want to admit it. They say "It's God's plan", but then they also believe in "free will", which contradicts the entire concept of "God's plan". They need to stick with a consistent teaching, but then people would be able to see them for what they are....idiots. They figure the smoke and mirrors of excuses and contradicting themselves will somehow "prove" that their version of the biblegod is true.

Near the end of my christian walk, I began to read the bible and realized that even the bible doesn't mention "satan" having all this power christians gave to it. And also, satan was not translated and it was not a name. Just because the translators capitalized a word in Hebrew, christians are naive enough to think it is a literal name. The word satan means "adversary" in Hebrew and can apply to the biblegod himself - 1st Chronicles 21:1 compared to 2nd Samuel 24:1. But this obviously would be a major problem for christians who claim Satan and the biblegod are 2 separate entitities. They are just too lazy to study their own religion.

Last month, my mom had a friend come to our family cabin. My mom knew I was an atheist who is outspoken about religion and especially christianity. She asked me not to bring up religion (and now I make an effort not to unless the other person does first). I was just talking about how I thought it was hypocritical of me to be against animal cruelty and my inability to probably kill an animal for food, yet I ate meat a lot of the time. Just having a non-religious discussion, right? Nope. This fundie christian began telling me that "god" made certain animals for eating and they don't do anything. This opened the door for me. We talked about many things regarding the bible and christianity. She had no proof for anything she said. But the one thing she told me is that the reason the world is the way it is, is because "Satan" rules it. I asked her, what is that saying about the "god" she supposedly worships? Doesn't that prove she thinks a created "angel" has more power than the god she worships? Seems self-defeating to me. These people are the real satanists (since they give their god satan more power than the god they claim to worship - Jesus). Then, to sound "good", they say God will get the earth back at some future point, because of prophecy. If God knows the future so well (with prophecy), why didn't he realize the future before he created everything and it would fuck up for supposedly 6,000+ years? See, they have excuses for why their beliefs fail over and over.

She also supported the "Christian America" myth. I proceeded to tell her it is simply untrue and told her about the lack of christian dogma or scripture in any federal document, along with the Treaty of Tripoli, which is clear. Then she said that Israel becoming a nation fulfilled prophecy, and I told her, self fulfilling prophecies don't count. It is the same reason economies can collapse (simply by people believing they can). The reason Israel became a nation is because of the U.N. Resolution and the Balfour Declaration. Sir Balfour was a dispensationalist christian who helped divide up the holy land in the hopes of restoring Israel as a country. He was simply trying to make happen what his interpretation of the bible says might happen. This is not a divine fulfillment of any prophecy. It is the same reason that christians might end up destroying humanity with nuclear war, because the bible says it will happen ( supposedly). Or when they try to fly as many jews to Palestine as humanly possible (Wings of Eagles), because it "fulfills" prophecy. Of course, God needs "help" to fulfill a prophecy he said would happen. God needs your money. So, apparently, these "supernatural" prophecies are nothing but natural and "carnal" money-supported, human involved fulfillments. That is hardly proof the bible is true.

Anonymous said...

I also apologize for veering from the original article. But since we are on the subject.
In deep discussions with my father of recent, I have been confronted with this particular defense of gawd and christianity that is becoming more popular in the churches of this area. According to my father, this argument/view is based on gawds divine gift of free will. Gawd provides all of humanity with the freedom of choice. You see, according to my father, gawd does not give satan rule over the earth, people give satan that power. Satan has no power over GAWD! Gawd simply allows this to happen and only intervenes with those who choose gawd over satan. My father believes that most churches, especially TV ministries and all others outside of his churches denomination and doctrine, are under satan's rule.

Don't get me started on the slew of rational and logical arguments against this ridiculous belief! My observation here is that this seems to be a common excuse for gawds incompetence that is cropping up everywhere..............even in Aussie Land! Good onya' mate!

Hellbound Alleee said...

This is a really great discussion. I love the comments!

Deamond, thanks for bringing it up. This is a kind of Christianity that I was never exposed to, but suspected it existed all along. Thanks, Deamond, for pointing out that Christianity devalues life, and that material things are good sometimes--after all, they are all that exists. Why do we let people continue to denigrate all that's joyful in life--the little things, I mean, that should be appreciated instead of complained about, constantly, by religious and nonreligious alike. We've been brainwashed to feel shame for enjoying what life brings us--the little things--like "movies, music, videogames and basically, everythiong cool." Right on! On the one hand we are buffs and geeks and talk about these things, but when we think we are being "deep," we pretend like these things are part of the God Mammon and should be trashed in the name of anti-materialism.

Matthew, your comments were fantastic too. You hit it right on the head. I've been saying it for a long time, but you really amde me understand that I was not just shooting hot air. These people ARE the true Satanists! They advocate the power of Satan over their own God, and make up these fantastic powers that Satan holds. Yet if you really read scripture, Satan was created by Christianity post "Jesus." He is an amalgamation of all kinds of misinterpreted characters and statements made in scripture, as well as in non-Jewsih religion. There was no one "Satan." There were "satans," there were "devils," and Lucifer? He wasn't even Jewish. He comes from elsewhere, and was no angel.

Satanism IS dangerous--in this context. Otherwise, the Satanism we know of has managed to grab the mystique of true Christian Satanism for themselves--on purpose. More power to them, (Laveyans), though. "God" love 'em!

Steven Bently said...

Welcome Realist, and this is a wonderful website, one of the best going IMO.

I think people need a religion to portray themselves as being a good person. They,(most)have been taught since childhood that religion and beliefs represents "Morals and Goodness" using the phrase "I have a belief in God or Jesus" therefore I must be a "Good" person and I parade myself and family in church for all to see, including "Mr. God himself."

People have been taught that their beliefs in the Bible will go on to be recognized after death and God and Jezsus will remember them atleast for their efforts!

They like to think that an Atheist has no morals or goodness to share with anyone, but that is a total lie cooked up by the fundamenatlist propaganda machine.

I happen to think that all religions are perpetrating a lie and falsehood and the believers are bathing in lies.

I have personally caught so many christians in so many lies it would make your head spin, but they believe that they can tell as many lies as they want and run back to Jesus and get immediate forgiveness, I surely hope there is not a God that exists as stupid and ignorant as the Bible God, if there is, then christians are in a heep of trouble themselves, for all the lies and money the preachers have swindled from people.

Religions represent evil, and divides families and condones wars and slavery and mental sickness.

Anonymous said...

Some good points are brought up here. A series of quantum leaps take place after one accepts the supposed logic of "intelligent design" (ID) or creationism. You are expected to accept a whole bunch of other premises that don't make sense, as a package deal. The whole system of ideas rests on some bold assumptions:

Foremost is the assumption that this world is not operating as the Creator established it. The struggle for survival was not the Creator’s doing. It was caused by the interference of an evil force. Since the evil force cannot be measured, it is assumed to be a spirit (supernatural). The Creator is assumed to have given this world over to that spirit so entirely that all life, from single celled organisms to mammals, handles the struggle for existence in much the same way. The Devil even interferes with microbes??? Does that make sense?

Don't start talking about the way changes occur during the copying of DNA, then accumulate over time. You'll start to sound like a scientist.

It is a salient point of Christian apologetics that people who believe in evolution have rejected all of these assumptions. Something supposedly occurred after the fall of man that wasn't even mentioned in the Bible. We're supposed to believe an elaborate story that isn't even in there.

The story in Genesis 3 didn't say anything about the Devil taking molecular control. It was a serpent, not Satan or a Devil, that deceived the woman. The punishment was toil in the fields and pain in child birth. The rest was derived from New Testament scriptures, and the story is growing to dispute every new discovery of science. It adds bold assumption to bold assumption, asks us to ignore the evidence, and to just have faith.

TastyPaper said...

I swear you guys attack Intelligent Design just to get a rise out of me! Ack! Every time I get compared to those Genesis freaks, I want to make a run for the bathroom! Let me tell you something, just because a group of people stand behind an other's idea, it doesn't mean that it's their idea. I am an atheist, a very proud atheist that would be very happy if religion were wiped off the face of the planet. I also happen to believe in Intelligent Design. It is not a belief I claim idly. I have not faith guiding me in this decision, but the nature of my own extensive research into the subject. So it would not be intelligent to dismiss me based on your own personal bias directed with your ignorance of my belief.

To take an example from Evolutionary literature, "This is what the bombardier beetle does. As for the evolutionary precursors of the system, both hydrogen peroxide and various kinds of quinones are used for other purposes in body chemistry. The bombardier beetle's ancestors simply pressed into different service chemicals that already happened to be around. That's often how evolution works."—Richard Dawkins, "The Blind Watchmaker." So what is more probable? That the bombardier beetle was engineered to defend itself using chemical warfare or that earlier ancestors "pressed into different service" chemicals in their bodies that had other functions, not knowing the end result, or having the means to produce a catalyst to make it work, or sufficient cellular protection within the adopted (previously used for some other purpose of course) chamber to contain, direct, and control the reaction? How would a blind watchmaker, who could not see an end result prevent disaster before a working prototype was able to not only survive it's own defense, but live on to donate these genes to the larger population?

This is just one overly used, though appropriate concerning the issue, example. There's a sort of stigma when someones says complexity, and yet complexity is what life is all about, starting with the very fundamental bit, DNA. Do any of you truly realize just how complex DNA is? "[The instructions within the DNA of the cell] if written out, would fill a thousand 600-page books. Each cell is a world brimming with as many as two hundred trillion tiny groups of atoms called molecules . . Our 46 chromosome `threads' [in one DNA molecule] linked together would measure more than six feet. Yet the nucleus that contains them is less than four ten-thousandths of an inch in diameter."—Rick Gore, "The Awesome Worlds Within a Cell," National Geographic. That's just within one cell. The author fails to note, though you can easy do your own research, that also within each set is a sort of "world,", containing mechanisms that regulate operations within the cell such as energy production, and chemical regulation, to name a couple. Here is your complexity, it is undeniable.

The biggest problem I see here, from both sides, is an aberrant need for a creator. A view I do not share or adhere to. To imply that the intelligence behind our design is a singular entity, that somehow designed, engineered, and produced us, is second only to a belief that a god (or a flying spaghetti monster) did it. After all, that would be attributing an awful lot to a singular entity. I propose that we are simply the product of intelligence. Not he did it, not she did it, not they did it, and not that it did it. A form of intelligence as expressed through through the drafting and engineering of complex carbon life forms on this planet. My evidence is staring in the faceplate of Asimo.

Like others before me, I apologise that this has nothing to do with this particular article, but I just wanted to tell you guys something.

Anonymous said...

Wow..................please excuse me.............I just came from the bathroom! Let’s review shall we? Genesis freaks and intelligent design. Humm.....I wonder why one might make such a comparison? Could it be that they are one in the same? No need to travel far for that answer! Faith is the only requisite for both of these as there is no evidence for either.

......”the biggest problem I see here, from both sides, is an aberrant need for a creator.”.....

Hello Kettle!!! The only question here is, what is the name of your universal master race or conglomeration of superior intelligennt beings responsible for all of creation? When and where are you going to hold your meetings to pay tribute to this intelligence? And how much of my monthly income will it take to support it? And you call yourself an atheist.

Your Bombardier Beetle/Blind watchmaker/DNA defense is so lame that, after the laughter subsided, I had to take another trip to the bathroom. You need to continue your research.

Your wonderment of “that which can not currently be explained” has caused you to stop using the ONLY intelligence at work in the universe, your own! Stop crediting some “intelligence” for that which bewilders your limited knowledge and understanding. Evolution is much more practical, logical, and provable than any theory going right now! It may be wrong! Who knows? Why don’t you allow your wonderful, amazing, and biologically miraculous brain allocate the time it takes until the proof is on the table before you make any assertions!

Bottom line to the best of human gawd(s), no devil or satans, no intelligent designer(s). No superior conscious or sentient force at work manipulating at any level much less at the molecular level. Get yourself a life and try contemplating something a little closer to your ability to comprhend such as, why don’t teachers receive higher pay than professional athletes? Don’tthey have much greater responsibility!

Anonymous said...

What scientist proposed Intelligent Design? Where is the ID model that produces falsifiable results? Randomness is seen everywhere. The struggle for survival is observed to accumulate changes. Deep time is confirmed by multiple sciences.

It was proven in court that clerics wrote the book on ID. They just did a global change from an older book, replacing "Creation" with "Intelligent Design." The judges in the Dover case decided ID is nothing but religion. Is it something more worthwhile to you?

The question of science is not, what seems more likely? At one time it seemed obvious that a heavy object would fall faster than a light one.

J. C. Samuelson said...


Maybe it's me, but I don't really think your coming through clearly here...

"The biggest problem I see here, from both sides, is an aberrant need for a creator."

This is the first time I've seen anyone assert that those opposed to ID have the same need of a creator as those who promote it. Please explain.

"After all, that would be attributing an awful lot to a singular entity."

Religious proponents of ID have no problem with this. After all, their deity is supposed to be omnipotent, eliminating any difficulties with special creation.

"I propose that we are simply the product of intelligence. Not he did it, not she did it, not they did it, and not that it did it. A form of intelligence as expressed through through the drafting and engineering of complex carbon life forms on this planet."

To rephrase, you propose that the universe - and in particular, humanity - is the product of some unknowable intelligence beyond our ability to comprehend, test, verify, or even classify or name.

Sounds an awful lot like God, Dave.

"My evidence is staring in the faceplate of Asimo."

Ah, but we know that ASIMO is designed because we - meaning humans - designed it. To use this as evidence in the way that you are is to assume a priori that human beings are designed, and from there basically you reverse engineer the human race. Naturally, you're going to find the proof you're looking for because you are examining the finished product.

In other words, what you have is an interesting and provocative hypothesis, not a theory with a solid basis in science.

Sorry to continue this off-topic. Couldn't resist.

Anonymous said...

I consider myself agnostic, and I also don't have a problem with the idea that the universe is run by intelligence (nor do I also think this implies the existence of a "God" or "Creator").

I reverse the meaning. When I hear the universe being called intelligent, I don't take this to mean that it is being describe like us (humans). I take this to mean that we are being described like it. The universe isn't a person, and neither am I. It is. I am. -- Okay, that's redundant. I am. --

Is there a term that fits better than "intelligent"? How about "ordered chaos", calculated but unpredictable, like the number pi.

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