a man and his God

sent in by Someone

I was a "Christian" for as long as I could remember. One of my earliest memories was talking with my grandmother one night -- I must have been four or five -- and asking her about Jesus. As we talked she told me she had something called a prayer language, which gave her the ability to speak in tongues. I asked her if I could hear her speak that way, and she did. Then I asked her how I could have one too. She told me that you receive a prayer language when receive the holy spirit, and that you receive the holy spirit when you asked Jesus into you heart. So like a good little girl, I asked Jesus into my heart and waited for my prayer language. Nothing happened. I went back and asked my grandmother what happens if you don't ever receive the holy spirit and she told me that you go to hell. She then proceeded to describe, in vivid detail, what hell was like.

I was haunted by the thought that I would go to hell for years. I felt that I was somehow inadequate -- that I had been born "not good enough" for God and that I was destined for hell. This was compounded by the fact that everyone else in my family had visions, saw angels, prophesied, etc. As if to validate my fears, I came across a bible verse in one of the bible studies I went to that stated something to the effect of "you were chosen by God before the beginning of time." Well, conversely one could assume that God deliberately did NOT choose some people before the beginning of time, therefore effectively destining them for hell.

That really bothered me, as this idea was in direct conflict with the doctrine of "God is love." Then of course there was the usual high school drama of Christian kids always being the partying, promiscuous, popular crowd and shunning me for the most part. (I was an army brat so I grew up the perpetual new kid.) At one point I went on a youth group retreat and when I got back the pastor from the church called a meeting with my parents to tell them I had been having sex during the retreat, when I was still a virgin. Apparently some of the other kids had made it up.

So yea, I became pretty angry and resentful toward Christianity. I felt hurt and betrayed by its God and its savior, who appeared two-faced and hypocritical, both from my perception of church doctrine and in their character as reflected by their followers. I considered quietly leaving the faith all together, but then I really began to think about it.

The truth is, people aren't perfect, and certainly a collective religious group is going to have its flaws magnified in accordance with its size. Christians are by no means a good reflection of who Christ was, and this became clearer and clearer to me the more I actually read the bible and literature on Christianity itself. Jesus himself was probably one of the "best" humans who ever walked the planet -- in every sense of the word. He underwent a horrific ordeal in order to help his fellow man, and no matter how you read the bible or whatever theories you subscribe to, this is basically at the heart of the story. Down the ages, his teachings and his example have been horribly twisted, diluted, and taken out of context to suit the needs of an increasingly bureaucratic and hierarchical church, so that today, far from drawing people to Jesus, Christians are essentially driving people away from organized religion.

I believe it was Mahatma Gandhi who said "I like your Christ, I just don't like your Christians." I understand the pain and frustration that many of the people who confidently label themselves "followers of Christ" cause every day, whether they know it or not. But before you leave Christianity completely, I encourage you to look at the Bible for yourself. Forget anything you've been taught about it or anything you've learned through experience and look at it without bias. And, though this might seem heretical, keep in mind that the new testament itself is not perfect -- it has been written and rewritten for thousands of years. However, at its heart I'm confident you'll see a man and his God who are still reaching out thousands of years later with a message of love for you personally.


Steven Bently said...

Ohh trying to sneak a little proselytizing in are we?

Here's the take on Jesus, Jesus was born out of wedlock, his mother was supposed to have been stoned to death, had she and her molester priest not made up the story of virgin birth.

Everyone needs a savior apparently especially 2000 years ago, everyone was waiting for their personal savior.

Jesus was told by everyone that he met since he was born, that he was sent directly from god and was showered with gifts and people bowed before him just on their ignorant fear that he may just have been sent by a god.

Yeah the three wisemen, they were so wise that no one thought to ask their names, they were just wise men and moved on.

Jesus having seen what effect it had on people believing that he was from god, got to thinking, here just may be something to all this, he decided to show some authority and realized that people were easily swayed and swooned and easily conned, soon he started slinging religious authority and people were really impressed, because everyone else lived in constant fear from the judgement of god above.

To take religious authority and to bravely claim they are sent from a god one must be brave, one would think or be completely out of their mind.

Look at how christians put preachers on a pedestal today in 2006, like they are some sort of god-called religious authority.

Jesus was nothing more than an unwanted bastard child, whom had been tricked and conned himself to think that he was sent from a god.

Jesus thought that if he used the premise of love to control people that they would just melt and love one another, and be one big happy family, but people started questioning him and testing him, so he had to scheme up some miracles with the help of his 12 schemers, if he could just convince his twelve desciples that he was from a god, then they could back him up and say yes indeed he must be from a god, yet he never fully convinced them apparently with his miracles, because not one would stand up for him, not even his own mother and supposedly his own father, Joseph.

Jesus just slung around religious authority and bibilical scripture, that was enough to convince lots of people that he was the chosen messiah, just as people put preachers on a pedestal in 2006.

Christianity and religions is the biggest hoax going today.

Jesus was no different than any other person to have come out of a womb and everything that he said was not wrote down directly by him, it's second or third or fourth hand information or inspiration, mostly inspired by god since Jesus nor God can write obviously, apparently they are so high up in authority they need not write themselves but only inspire.

Anonymous said...

We have read the Buybull, and it contains cruelty, outright lies, and contradictions. Gawd and Je$u$ are described as bloodthirsty, hateful tyrants.

Then there's the Xtian lie that humans need a god to be moral. Your post is just another refutation of that crap!

Anonymous said...


You did speak SOME wisdom...this MAN, and I do use MAN, Jesus, may have been a VERY wise teacher in his day...divine? I am certain that he was NOT. Influential? Well, if you call what the xians of today practice as the sentiments of Jesus, then the word "influential" flies right out the window...those actually espousing the true ideas of christ would be labled as hippie, communist anti-american pacifist pussies by the "christian right wingers" of today...ideals they say no man could live up to, but, oh, we'll deride, quash, even KILL those that don't believe it, anyway.

You're right about what Gandhi thought...Martin Luther King, Jr. espoused a LOT of what Gandhi believed concerning passive resistance and social change, and look what happened to them both...Gandhi was murdered, King was labled a "radical" and then murdered...so much for the shining beacon of xianity glowing down on Martin Luther King, Jr.! I guess the xians have the consolation of knowing that he may be in heaven as a murdered martyr, while other xians hope that he's just in the "black section."


Anonymous said...

I was fooled too. I thought you were on our side. Slick!

First of all, your Jesus is only one of many dying,crucified-on-a cross, born-of-a-virgin, miracle workers, who had twelve disciples, were part of a triune God, were visited by shephards and wise men, were almost killed as a babies, and were resurrected on the third day. Please do a comparative study of World Religions before you try to sell us a savior that has been recycled from other mythological god-men much older than Jesus.

Secondly, before you try to sell us on the wonderful teachings of Jesus please be sure that His teachings weren't also recycled and nearly copied word for word from Buddha,Confucious, or Plato (all around before Jesus.)

Third, we do not care how wonderful a Christian you or your friends or others you might know are. The fact still remains that your religion is only that: a religion! It is not the ONE TRUTH, THE ONLY TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD! It is only one of many attempts at trying to explain the mysteries of the universe and the purpose of man's life spent here on earth. You may very well be a swell Christian, but you are still representing a book full of atrocities and absurdities. Christians need to go back to the drawing board and come up with a new "Word of God" before trying to reconvert us. It is your "Word of God" that led us away from your cult to begin with. It should be an embarrassment to you and you should avoid using it in any debate or attempt to witness to ex-christians who are more familiar with it's disgusting content than you.

Anonymous said...

If it were just a matter of following the teachings of jesus there wouldn't really be a problem. I mean, after all, he did steal alot of good stuff from some really smart people.

But can you really stop at that? Can I still refuse to ignore all of the absurdities and contradictions of the bible? Can I still consider the doctrine of sin/damnation to be intrinsically evil? Can I still decide for myself what is right and what is wrong?

Will I have to defend christianity from non-believers - even if what they say makes sense? Will I have to insert myself into other people's lives in an effort to "help them see the light"? Will I have to assume that anyone who says they are a christian must be a decent person (until, of course, they rape or murder or swindle someone)?

Assuming there is a god, do you think he'll let me into heaven if I don't do these things? If your answer is no, then you're deceptive and disingenuous with your "just follow jesus" pitch. If you say yes, then why bother?

You see, jesus comes with a whole boatload of baggage. And I can (and have) found everything he has to offer without having to deal with all the rest of his crap.

Anonymous said...

I have something to say to every single person on this thread.

At first when I read the scathing comments on this article I felt compassion for those that had posted them. It can't be fun to be that angry. But after a while I got angrier and angrier, and I am not going to start pandering and begging you to believe what is so obviously the truth. What a bunch of pompous arrogant blowholes you all are.
ben: For one thing, you really ought to do more thorough research before you attack an entire religion. 1. Joseph never intended to stone Mary, but he planned on divorcing her until he saw an angel himself. 2. People were not impressed by Jesus. The religious leaders of the day hated him, and he was persecuted. For another thing, why do you feel the need to make life so complicated? Isn't it hard enough without people like you inventing involved conspiracy theories? What if people believed Jesus was the Messiah because he fulfilled all of the Old Testament scriptures? What basis do you have for denouncing Christ's entire life as a bunch of bunk?
xrayman: What books are you reading? And in what translation? God says "Seek and you will find." Key word: seek. You have to want to understand.
As for Someone: so, what, you're the only "true" Christian in the world? Okay, so some people might have had a difficult time explaining Christianity to you when you were a kid. And it's true that there are falst prophets out there that I would really like to punch. But for goodness sake, Christians are just people too. Cut your fellow believers some slack, why don't you.

Anonymous said...

Posted by Anonymous to Letters to the Webmaster at 8/07/2006 03:15:39 PM
"As for Someone: so, what, you're the only "true" Christian in the world? Okay, so some people might have had a difficult time explaining Christianity to you when you were a kid. And it's true that there are falst prophets out there that I would really like to punch. But for goodness sake, Christians are just people too. Cut your fellow believers some slack, why don't you"

Dear Anonymous:
I just bet you could find all the slack you want on (I Love Jesus. Com )......and I bet you wouldn't get a bit angry. In fact I bet you would drift off into a never, never land of euphoric Christian bliss.

Dan (Ex religionist, rationalist)

Anonymous said...

Wow that armor of God you got on there anonymous, really repels the slings and arrows of the enemy. You didn't let 1 little thing said come across and make sense to you. The Bible is full of atrocious stuff, read it again for the first time, and get angrier than you got here!

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said that he/she had something to everyone who had previously posted but conveniently forgot to address me. I'm still waiting.......

Anonymous said...

Anonymous, the bible is a screwed up mess and so is every religion built upon it, from what I've seen. The doctrine of salvation by grace is absurd, really. It's really a new testament doctrine, and it does not appear to me as though "Jesus saves" is not what Jesus taught, frankly. It's also absurd to think that we are all born destined for eternal torment, where the flames of hell are seven times hotter than anything on earth, according to scripture, because Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge, and because we are in a "fallen state." For this, we are damned by the all-loving christian God? Ridiculous. The salvation by the death on the cross is ludicrous. God wants his "only son" to die a horrible death so that we may go to heaven instead of hell, but only if we "accept Jesus?" I think that's nonsense. The bible itself refutes this, by the way, in first John 2:2 where John the apostle, who wrote the gospel of John, states that Christ is "the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but for the sins of the whole world!" Meanwhile, the church teaches that one must "accept Jesus," in order to be "saved" from the nonsensical christian hell of eternal torment, and that it is the death on the cross which redeems us! Would you care to explain this? Christ died for the sins of the whole world, according to John, yet he died only for those who "accept him," according to the church! How do you explain this? The church and the apostle John disagree with each other! To top it all off, we read the gospels to find that Christ is quoted to have said such things as, "except ye become as a child ye shall not enter into heaven," or, "except your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and the pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter in," or, "not everyone who sayeth unto me 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter heaven, but he that doeth the will of God!" Of course, it's easier for camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter in. On that note, why did Christ say, "whosever keepeth my saying shall never see death?" Why did he say, "if thine eye be single thy whole body shall be full of light?" How about "The wind goeth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell from whether it cometh nor whither it goeth. So, too, is the man that is born of the spirit." Here, interestingly enough, he seems to be saying, essentially, "be here now," a common "new age" philosophy, as well as a common zen philosophy! How do you explain Matt. 23:13? The condemnation of John 3:19, which appears to be the "fallen state of grace," and not "eternal damnation in the afterlife," despite the churches use of John 3:16 in support of it's doctrine of salvation by grace?

I could go on and on, but I'll let you start with these questions...

Anonymous said...

Excuse me, I made a mistake. I wrote "...it does not appear to me as though 'Jesus saves' is not what Jesus taught," which should instead say "it does not appear to me as though 'Jesus saves' is what Jesus taught."

Anonymous said...

I know what you mean, Tiff. They never want to "reveal my mistakes" either. (You think we're makin' them nervous? heeheehee)


Nvrgoingbk said...

yeah Tigg, same thing happens in chat rooms when debating Xtians. They conveniently ignore your questions or recite Bible scripture which, as I said before, should never be used in intelligent debate with Atheists who know their Holy BABBLE better than they do. I understand them saying, "Genesis says such and such, now let me explain to you what i know that backs that up." But what literalist do is say, "You say such and such about this particular topic, but let me tell you what the Bible says to back up why I don't agree with you." How effective is it to use a book we have regarded as fiction in a debate? If Christians really want to get under our skin and get us thinking, they need to educate themselves more and find arguments OUTSIDE of the Bible to throw at us. They just can't do it, because their whole set of precious beliefs rests upon the claims made in that book.

"All around the mulberry bush, the monkey chased the weasel" Around and around and around......

Anonymous said...

Let's humor the xians for a moment, shall we? Why don't we put the Bible to its own "fruits of the spirit" test. Okay, we have many dozens of denominations all using the Bible as its Source. On one end of the scale we have denoms like ELCA and Methodists and UCC, who don't take the Bible literally, and who embrace the hated and preach peace. On the other end we have Southern Baptists and other fundamentalists, who take a very literal approach to the Bible. These are the people who blame the poor for being poor, who want to have Bedroom Police in every home to make sure you aren't doing anything in there they don't agree with, and who are very willing to blow away their opposition. Seems to me that the more you take the Bible at its word, the more cruel you are to those who aren't exactly like you. And that's just the opposite of what Jesus taught.

In conclusion, believing the Bible to be God's Infallible Word will produce bad fruits. So by its own test, the Bible fails.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, its like, you can believe in and follow the OT god or you can believe in and follow jesus but you can't do both at the same time.

Oh, you can SAY that you do, but in practice they conflict with each other. The more you follow jesus the more new-agey and heretical you sound and the more you follow the OT god the more bigoted and violent you become.

It would help alot if they could just stand back and take a look at themselves, but that's what the blinders and the shackles are for.


Anonymous said...

Someone said:
The truth is, people aren't perfect, and certainly a collective religious group is going to have its flaws magnified in accordance with its size.

Lorena responds:

True enough.
However, not all groups are as evil, manipulative, deceptive, and cruel as Christians are.

You can honey it up as much as you can, but they are still evil.

Jesus may have been everything you say, but the religion created in his name is the most hideous thing ever invented.

Furthermore, the truth and beauty of Jesus' teachings can also be found in other religions and philosophies--but more importantly, they can be found through common sense.

It follows that we, former Christians, found out that it was easier to be "good" people by disassociating ourselves from hateful institutions, such as the Christian church.

Anonymous said...

Annoy-mess,...you're the one that lacks research and facts! Go to your local bookstores and read the 100's of books proving the inerrancy of scripture.Watch a little History channel instead of T.B.N. sometime.
The babble is being exposed all around you,.. and your head is in the sand!Your the pompous blowhole and I, "as an agnostic", feel compassion towards your brainwashed,ignorant belief system.Your just in denial,...that's why your so angry!
All addicts get pissed off when you confront their crazy addictions

J. C. Samuelson said...

"...before you leave Christianity completely, I encourage you to look at the Bible for yourself. Forget anything you've been taught about it or anything you've learned through experience and look at it without bias."

For me, the first part of this statement contains a bit of irony. It was through looking at the Bible myself while consulting both apologetic (friendly to the Bible) and skeptical (unfriendly to the Bible) resources to help understand the textual and cultural contexts, that prompted me to finally reject this book as anything other than a human creation. It is chock full of irreconcilable contradictions, both factual and doctrinal, and though it may have a certain value as an artifact, containing a small amount of useful philosophy, it is frightening that this book (or portions thereof) is used as the basis for two out of three of the world's majority religions.

I'm sure bias played a role to some degree. None of us is truly able to supress our need to view the world and make judgments through the prism of our experiences. In fact, this is necessary for our understanding. So as to the second part of this statement, I say recognize and acknowledge your bias in order to mitigate its influence, don't try to deny it.

I'm confident the result will be the opposite of what the poster believes it will be.

All the same, it seems to me that Someone is trying to advocate reading it emotionally. I'm a bit surprised he/she didn't have specific recommendations designed to lead a person toward particularly emotive passages (such as John 3:16).

"...it has been written and rewritten for thousands of years."

Precisely why it is not to be trusted as the Word of God, as it were.

Anonymous said...

To anoymess again,..no it wasn't a freudian slip,...I meant errancy
not inerrancy,.."my bad"!
I was trying to post and make dinner for my four kids all at once.(I need to attend a pompous,arrogant blowhole anoynomous meeting tonight,.I'll meet you there!) That's P.A.B.A.,
look in your phone book for a local P.A.B.A meeting near you.

*(Or if you prefer Fundamentlist Anonymous,...yea,.. that might be better)!

Anonymous said...

Anon fundy # 2,476,987 said: "...I am not going to start pandering and begging you to believe what is so obviously the truth. What a bunch of pompous arrogant blowholes you all are."

The first error in your bitch-ass presuppositional assertion is that, no, it is absolutely NOT "obviously" the truth, or else we wouldn't be having this conversation. That's right Livernuts--if your wuss-ass biblegod's existance was so f%cking "obvious", and I mean obvious like the existance of "oxygen", or "stop signs", or "clouds"....then this website wouldn't be here for you come cry on. Show me one website where they debate the existance of oxygen. Waiting.

BTW, which God is it that's so "obviously" the "truth"?...Allah? Shazam? Isis?...Toth? Dork.

freeman said...

Anonymous said...
"obviously the truth"

You are more blind than Ray Charles, even in his death! The only obvious truth is that there is NO evidence for jesus! Not one shred of evidence that can convice anyone, who is not blinded by faith, that your god-man walked this earth! You are dilusional!

Peace without a god!

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