Hi,
Well, I don't like sneeking in on people so I'll just say it straight away: I'm a christian.
I havn't looked much on your site (yet), but a few things I want to say:
First of all: I found this site when I was looking for free-to-watch christian movies and found you got one of Hovind's debates online here :)
The second thing was that I read your "challenge to all christians visiting this place" in which you give three points which we should think about if we want to stay a christian.
I was positivly surpriced you were so objective! Those points did not contain any sh!t like "you go door-to-door all the time while you shouldn't bother anyone", or "you only think of yourselfs as better people because..." or "many of you are so dishonest" or... (I suppose I could go on for a while her ;))
Anyway, I had trouble with these things too, but I no longer see them as a problem. I don't know exaclty what you did when you thought about these points (perhaps I should read more articles to find out), but I layed it all down for the Lord and He gave me answers I could deal with.
Some of the answers were very personal, but one of the best I ever got (this goes up, mostly for point 1; contradicions in the bible) I found a few weaks agoo on www.drdino.com.
The link is:
http://www.drdino.com/articles.php?cat=15
There are 4 (if you are interested 5) huge articles about purposed contradicions in the bible.
Also, I'm hoping to start my universal theology education in just about 18 months and I'm doing lots and lost of pre-study, so on some I could be more exact concerning alternative translations which account almost 90% of all (NOT misinterpreted) contradictions.
I'm giving you this link, because you appear to be honest about things and open to listen to any kind of argument.
If you wouldn't be, you'd be just as bad as many parents who force christianity on they're children.
If you don't choose after serious study, your not a christian, nor an atheist (I think I'll make that my personal slogan ;))
Greets,
Bram van den Heuvel
Email:Bram_mail@hotmail.com
Ps. as for spelllling eroorrs, I'm Dutch, so please don't shoot :P
These letters were published between January 2001 and February 2010. To view recent posts, go to The Main Blog at ExChristian.Net
10 comments:
Hi Christian. Was that a freudian slip "lost"?
Since your Dutch, you probably wouldn't take Christiandom as seriously as those in the Bible belt.
I believe non of it. Biblical contradictions big deal. The Bible was written by men, sure there are going to be contradictions. There are many sites that post them. And many can overlook contradictions especially if they get a word from authority (of which you will presumably be). My advice to you is this:
Be kind to people always, no matter what they believe or don't believe. Keep in mind when you counsil others that they are troubled and most likely in some sort of conflict. Keep them honest, and be truthful "for God's sake". If you decide to use Faith to believe in God, don't use it against anyone. Keep your belief system "personal" and try and help others with the guidance that you are taught during your time in school.
And the last credence: "DO NO HARM".
That is a doctor's crede, and I am sure it is something you will respect.
Good luck always,
Fox
Welcome!
I liked your post - but I'd like to comment on your "universal theology education." Does this mean that you're planning to major in theology in a college?
[begin unsolicited advice]
I have had a few friends that have majored in theology. They've all complained about how hard it is to get a job with this degree. The girls have had it hardest (Indiana, US is generally not girl-preacher friendly). Generally, a theology (or philosophy, or classical studies, or women's studies, etc.) degree means you spent 4 years becoming no more employable.
[end unsolicited advice]
Anyways, have fun on the website. You'll find tons of eye-opening information.
Take care.
PS - Hovind doesn't carry much water around here. May as well not bother.
Dave Woetzel from your link does address many seemingly contradictory passages. After reviewing many of them, I contend that his answers were for the most part, made up out of thin air, merely speculation about what he thought was meant.
I was particularily looking for how he handled the contradictions regarding the Passion; from Jesus' betrayal through his ascension. No luck, at least none that I found. The challange has been out there for quite some time for there to be a cohesive, reconcilable, non-contradictory chain of events including places, characters, time, expectations and just plain story line of the Passion week's events.
To me there is no doubt that contradictions exist in the old and new testements. However, this is only a problem if scripture is taken as fundementaly, literaly true.
Contradictions do not pose a problem in scripture when the stories are taken allegorically or metaphorically.
The story of Jesus life on earth is a conglamaration of Israels past (Joseph the Saviour, David the King, Baptism/Red Sea, Pharo/Herod killing children, etc) and the Sun-Gods and God-Men of the surrounding nations (Osiris and the resurrection, Mithra and the shedding of blood and communion and Dec 25th birthday, Zoaraster and the saviours final triumph over evil, Dionysis sacrifice,wine miracle).
Paul talks about this when he mentions making the two into one, the Jews and the Gentile (Greeks).
The author of many books on Mythology, Joseph Campbell, even though he is difficult to read, sheds much light on the meaning behind the stories of the gods and myths throughout history.
"Apostle" Paul particularly talks about the Mysteries. These are not just thing that are unknown, but rather were religious rights of passage and spiritual knowledge, dating back to Egypt, Mesopotamia and India. Paul never mentions Jesus life on earth, but refers to the crucifiction and resurection "according to scripture", or old testemant.
The common theme among the gods of Egypt, Babylon, Greece and Israel are the same, and so is the message.
Jesus not having actually walked the face of the Earth makes no difference. The gospel has always been there from the beginning. I always found it interesting that the New Testemant has Jesus going around and preaching the gospel. If the gospel is the good news that Jesus died for our sins, how could he have been preaching that while alive! That mystery wasn't supposedly revealed till the end of his ministry, and then even his disciples had no idea what he was talking about.
The Mystery is eternal and is the good news!
"...alternative translations which account almost 90% of all (NOT misinterpreted) contradictions."
That is completely false.
But it's a good thing you're going to keep studying since the quickest way to become an exChristian is to read the Bible as much as possible.
Incidentally, how can you trust the Bible on anything if it is so mistranslated as you say? If someone told you 10 facts and you found out 7 were false, could you trust the other 3?
Tim
"...just as bad as many parents who force christianity on they're children."
What are you talking about?
Should christian parents not teach what they believe?
If parents truly believe in it then they're not 'bad' for teaching it to their kids.
My parents didn't force christianity on me, they just raised me in it.
Sure I didn't really have a choice, but as I grew up I was able to question and go my own way.
The link that you posted contains articles presenting apologetical replies to contradictions in the Bible, one of which is “Where did Cain get his wife?” The answer stated is: “Jewish tradition suggested that they had 33 sons and 23 daughters! Cain merely married his sister.” Is this type of information about Cain, murderer of his brother, having incest with his sister of any real value to human society? Does this story and the other fables in the Bible really inspire you to believe that this book is a creation of a God that deserves respect and adoration? The Bible has some good wisdom, some very bad advice, some nonsense, and some contradictions because it is the work of man.
I agree with the above responder that you should consider pursuing some other course of study. Holland is always worried about being inundated by the sea. Why not study climatology, oceanography, or hydrology; and just make Bible study a private hobby? Old Moses was pretty good at hydrology, he parted the Red Sea. LOL
Have a good day.
Nice try, "I'm a christian," but it won't work here. You won't convert anybody here. You're wasting your time.
Speaking of errors in the bible, what do you think of Isaiah 37 and 2 Kings 19 being nearly identical, word for word, while the remainders of the two books are quite different with the occasional similarity? Who is the true author and what is the true story surrounding those chapters?
Somebody is pulling our legs.
One problem with christian theology is the damnation preceding the salvation by 4,000 years. Everybody went to hell before Jesus, apparently, and there they remain. Some christians believe that they will be given a chance to "accept Jesus" on "judgement day," but that creates a few other problems, like why doesn't God give everybody that chance? Also, if it were true, then God essentially, casts them into hell for some period of time then gives them a chance to "accept Jesus" or it's into the lake of fire mentioned in revelations at the "last day?" Nice God you believe in. Believe, or else...
Also, if it's "accepting Jesus" that "saves" a person from the eternal torment that awaits us all as descendants of Adam and Eve and heirs to the curse put upon them by God (who loves us,) then one cannot say that "He died for you." He only died for those who "accept" him, according to christian theology. Let's not forget that we are in a "fallen state," having forgotten "from whence we have fallen," and the "joy of the spirit," which is the only thing that will satisfy our "souls," and so we remain in misery and suffer for our actions, "chasing after the lusts of the flesh," naturally, so God hates that and so for these reasons God will cast us into hell (eternal torment) unless we "accept Jesus," when we suddenly become saints no matter how we behave...I can hardly go on with this absurdity...Anyhow, we are cast into hell for being descendants of Adam and Eve, and for committing "sin," which displeases God despite being naturally drawn towards the "pleasures of the flesh," having forgotten our "true joy," then after four thousand years of casting souls into hell, Jesus finally arrives to die the most horrible death one may imagine which somehow appeases God, who wants a human sacrifice, and so God will forgive us and let us into "heaven (eternal paradise)" instead but only if one "accepts Jesus." There is no other way into heaven and everybody else is damned.
What a load of nonsense.
So sad! So young! Please don't turn your mind over to a cult already. Don't waste precious years being involved in mind subjugation by a mythology. Go out and live. Discover the difference between what's real and what's imaginary. Don't wait till you are old before you discover that you didn't have to hate this life in return for an empty promise of a better one when you die. Don't let a religious cult put shackles on your mind that will take years for you to unlock.
Our world doesn't need any more religious cult members. What we need are social engineers who can find ways to get through to huge masses of people who are ready to kill anyone who doesn't accept their particular version of God. We need to find a way to free people from religion so they won't want to kill and destroy civilization over imaginary belief systems.
Dan (Rationalist)
Hi Christian
thanks for not storming in and telling all of us we're going to hell; that earns a sincere welcome from most of us. Good luck on your degree work, but be warned that when you start looking at original translations the innerancy thing will probably crumble.
Thanks for the link, but any assumption that any of us just got bad information, or turned away from x-ianity because we didn't have all the facts is pretty far off the mark. Most of us left after INTENSE study of the arguements.
Here's a link you might enjoy:
http://skeptically.org/newtestament/id10.html
From NEW TESTAMENT ANALYSIS
http://skeptically.org/newtestament/id4.html
"These parallels given the silence of the Epistles and the historical fiction of the Gospels are strong support for the hypothesis that The Teacher of Righteousness grew into the Jesus legend. This is made all the more likely given the time gap: the Teacher of Righteousness was executed during the reign of Alexander Jannaeus (103-76 B.C.). Paul comes 150 years after his death.[6] Thus there was enough time for a legend to grow inside and outside the Qumran community. Given the above-mentioned similarities between the Dead Sea Scrolls and the NT a relationship between the 2 must have existed. This relationship makes it all the more likely that the Teacher of Righteousness was the seed for the Jesus legend.[7]"
Dan (Rationalist)
Post a Comment