what do you think is going to happen after you die? can we know?
The following is an email exchange I had with one Andrey or Svetlana Shihova from Jan 14 - Feb 19, 2002. Though I am not sure where the writer is from, I assume he or she is from an Eastern Block country based on his or her use of the English Language. I did not save the first email I received, unfortunately. In that first letter the writer warned me that Jesus was coming soon and the rapture was about to take place. The writer stated they had come across my site by accident and therefore decided to correspond with me. The narrative takes up after that first email from him/her. If this string continues I will post the exchanges here.
To: "Svetlana Shihova"
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 04:15:32 -0500
Hello,
Even when I was a Christian, I believed Darby was a heretic. I never have believed in dispensationalism, and neither did the rest of Christianity until Darby and his followers created it.
From: Svetlana Shihova sshihova@hotmail.com
Date: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 5:09 AM
what do you think is going to happen after you die? can we know?
To: "Svetlana Shihova"
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 04:08:56 -0500
I believe the same thing happens to us that happens to cats, dogs, horses, apes and every other living thing on earth. We die and that is it. I did not exist for millions of years before I was born and it did not bother me a bit. I will not exist after I am dead, and I will not mind that either.
Dave VanAllen
From: Svetlana Shihova [mailto:sshihova@hotmail.com]
Date: Thursday, January 17, 2002 3:14 PM
Hi Dave,
How do you back up your religion? Can you say for sure that there is nothing after death? What kind of facts can we have to prove what you believe? Sorry for calling believe in "nothing after death" religion, I just do not see any differences from other relegions.
Andrey
To: "Svetlana Shihova"
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 13:39:44 -0500
How do you back up your religion?
How do you back up anything? With evidence that is what. The fact of the matter is, there is no evidence for life after death. Even religion teaches that animals and plants have no life after death. Only religion says men and women survive death. It is a lie. I do not believe there is life after death. It is simply the obvious truth that once someone is dead, they no longer are seen or heard from again. Dead means dead and buried and gone forever. Look around, seen any dead people walking about? However, since we understand death, we do not like it, so we invent nice imaginary place where we live forever. All people have wondered about that and made up many religions hoping for a heaven after death. Fact is the mummies in Egypt are still dead, they were wrong. And so is everyone else that insists on a paradise after death. Time to live is now. After death is just eternal sleep -
From: Svetlana Shihova [mailto:sshihova@hotmail.com]
Date: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 1:51 AM
it's me again. i hope you had a good weekend. in your last message you are saying: "Look around, seen any dead people walking about?" actually i do see dead people walking around and i am one of them. people at work, shopping centers, etc. right from our birth we are poised to die. what do you think about that? and since you have 2 lovely children did they ever ask you about death? if they did what did you tell them? i am just wondering how hard is it to look at your little kids eyes full of hope and tell them that there is no hope in this world for them. even thou the humanity does not have a clue what happens after death.
andrey
To: "Svetlana Shihova"
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 00:42:03 -0500
There are many hard things in life. Disease, poverty, starvation, handicaps, hatred, war, rape, murder, thieves, mean people, ignorance, persecution, prejudice, unfairness, liars, cheaters, depression, and a thousand other terrible things are all part of life on this world.
Teaching my children that life here on earth is bad but there is hope in a magical fantasy land called heaven, where everything is wonderful all the time, sounds to me like a recipe for suicide.
Life is short and should not be wasted pining away for heaven. Even Jesus said to take no thought for tomorrow, but worry about today's troubles, something no Christian does by worrying about their death all the time. Sounds to me like you are more worried about death than simply living the best you can now.
I did not teach my children to believe in Santa Claus and many people think that is callous. I did not teach them to believe in the tooth fairy, the easter bunny, magic, or any other lies that supposedly give children "hope". However, they have no doubt that I love them and I am real. They also love life to the fullest, and they are more positive than many of their contemporaries who are raised in religious homes. No doubt there are many reasons people believe in gods or goddesses and the fear of death is among the most popular reasons. But the biggest reason people believe in one religion or another is primarily determined by the accident of birth.
I wonder if I or you were born in Iran, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Iraq, Egypt, India, Pakistan, or so much of the rest of the world, if we would have even the slightest chance of being on our way to a christian heaven? I have heard your same argument strongly proclaimed by very sincere Muslims. Life here is bad, so we must look toward our reward in heaven? What about all the lovely and wonderful things in life, like love, invention, family, friends, honesty, health, prosperity, giving, forgiveness, joy, happiness, fun, reading, knowledge, exploration, creativity, imagination, space, heroism, and on and on and on. Instead of the hard things we cannot change, why not dwell on those good things life has given us?
My cat who is our family pet and friend will die one day soon. Should I dwell on that every day or simply enjoy him all his days? The cat may live 15 years, not much time at all, but he doesn't seem to mind his lot at all, and looks forward to going outside to stalk a mouse or bird with glee everyday. He enjoys his life! So should we.
Sincerely,
Dave VanAllen
From: Svetlana Shihova [mailto:sshihova@hotmail.com]
Date: Saturday, February 09, 2002 9:31 AM
Hi again,
But can you proof that there is no life after death?
Andrey
To: "Svetlana Shihova"
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 04:49:31 -0500
Can you prove there is life after death?
There may be fairies at the bottom of the pond. There is no evidence of fairies being at the bottom of the pond, but you cannot prove that there are not fairies at the bottom of the pond, so shouldn't we be agnostic in regard to fairies?
This is an example of your reasoning. I cannot prove something that does not exist, that is silly. Prove there is no Santa Claus. Prove that there are no ghosts. Prove that there are no UFOs with aliens from Jupiter visiting our planet everyday. To prove something, is to prove something is, not to prove something is not. The burden of proof lies with the person asking to prove the existence of a thing.
You have no proof of life after death - NONE. And neither does anyone else. I have plenty of proof that once people are in the ground they stay there until they become dust, unless they are mummies from ancient Egypt, in which case they may still be around to look at, but they don't say much. Dead is dead, just like my cat and dog, just like every animal in the zoo, just like every person so far.
Dave VanAllen
From: Svetlana Shihova [mailto:sshihova@hotmail.com]
Date: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 2:58 PM
I am asking if you can prove there is no life after death because otherwise whatever you say it's just your personal conviction, just like any religion. And whatever you tell your children is a lie as well, just my opinion.
To: "Svetlana Shihova"
Tue 2/19/2002 10:46 AM
Can you prove their are no aliens in flying saucers visiting earth. If you cannot prove that their are no aliens in flying saucers visiting earth, then whatever you say about flying saucers is just your personal conviction, just like any religion. And whatever you tell your children about flying saucers is a lie, because you cannot prove there are no flying saucers.
Your reasoning is faulty. There is no evidence for life after death at all. Everyone that dies stays dead. We do not attempt to disprove the existence of things, we search out to prove things. The burden of proof is on you to prove that there is life after death. You believe that there is life after death. What is your evidence for this belief? I see no evidence of life after death, so naturally I do not believe in it as I do not believe in flying saucers. I do not believe in flying saucers with aliens, because there is no evidence of such things, only stories by fanatical people who BELIEVE in flying saucers.
In the same way there is no hard evidence for life after death, only stories by fanatical people who BELIEVE in life after death. If you want to BELIEVE in life after death, go ahead, no one is stopping you. I choose to remain unconvinced of life after death until given proper evidence.
Sincerely,
Dave VanAllen
To: "Svetlana Shihova"
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 04:15:32 -0500
Hello,
Even when I was a Christian, I believed Darby was a heretic. I never have believed in dispensationalism, and neither did the rest of Christianity until Darby and his followers created it.
From: Svetlana Shihova sshihova@hotmail.com
Date: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 5:09 AM
what do you think is going to happen after you die? can we know?
To: "Svetlana Shihova"
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 04:08:56 -0500
I believe the same thing happens to us that happens to cats, dogs, horses, apes and every other living thing on earth. We die and that is it. I did not exist for millions of years before I was born and it did not bother me a bit. I will not exist after I am dead, and I will not mind that either.
Dave VanAllen
From: Svetlana Shihova [mailto:sshihova@hotmail.com]
Date: Thursday, January 17, 2002 3:14 PM
Hi Dave,
How do you back up your religion? Can you say for sure that there is nothing after death? What kind of facts can we have to prove what you believe? Sorry for calling believe in "nothing after death" religion, I just do not see any differences from other relegions.
Andrey
To: "Svetlana Shihova"
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 13:39:44 -0500
How do you back up your religion?
How do you back up anything? With evidence that is what. The fact of the matter is, there is no evidence for life after death. Even religion teaches that animals and plants have no life after death. Only religion says men and women survive death. It is a lie. I do not believe there is life after death. It is simply the obvious truth that once someone is dead, they no longer are seen or heard from again. Dead means dead and buried and gone forever. Look around, seen any dead people walking about? However, since we understand death, we do not like it, so we invent nice imaginary place where we live forever. All people have wondered about that and made up many religions hoping for a heaven after death. Fact is the mummies in Egypt are still dead, they were wrong. And so is everyone else that insists on a paradise after death. Time to live is now. After death is just eternal sleep -
From: Svetlana Shihova [mailto:sshihova@hotmail.com]
Date: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 1:51 AM
it's me again. i hope you had a good weekend. in your last message you are saying: "Look around, seen any dead people walking about?" actually i do see dead people walking around and i am one of them. people at work, shopping centers, etc. right from our birth we are poised to die. what do you think about that? and since you have 2 lovely children did they ever ask you about death? if they did what did you tell them? i am just wondering how hard is it to look at your little kids eyes full of hope and tell them that there is no hope in this world for them. even thou the humanity does not have a clue what happens after death.
andrey
To: "Svetlana Shihova"
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 00:42:03 -0500
There are many hard things in life. Disease, poverty, starvation, handicaps, hatred, war, rape, murder, thieves, mean people, ignorance, persecution, prejudice, unfairness, liars, cheaters, depression, and a thousand other terrible things are all part of life on this world.
Teaching my children that life here on earth is bad but there is hope in a magical fantasy land called heaven, where everything is wonderful all the time, sounds to me like a recipe for suicide.
Life is short and should not be wasted pining away for heaven. Even Jesus said to take no thought for tomorrow, but worry about today's troubles, something no Christian does by worrying about their death all the time. Sounds to me like you are more worried about death than simply living the best you can now.
I did not teach my children to believe in Santa Claus and many people think that is callous. I did not teach them to believe in the tooth fairy, the easter bunny, magic, or any other lies that supposedly give children "hope". However, they have no doubt that I love them and I am real. They also love life to the fullest, and they are more positive than many of their contemporaries who are raised in religious homes. No doubt there are many reasons people believe in gods or goddesses and the fear of death is among the most popular reasons. But the biggest reason people believe in one religion or another is primarily determined by the accident of birth.
I wonder if I or you were born in Iran, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Iraq, Egypt, India, Pakistan, or so much of the rest of the world, if we would have even the slightest chance of being on our way to a christian heaven? I have heard your same argument strongly proclaimed by very sincere Muslims. Life here is bad, so we must look toward our reward in heaven? What about all the lovely and wonderful things in life, like love, invention, family, friends, honesty, health, prosperity, giving, forgiveness, joy, happiness, fun, reading, knowledge, exploration, creativity, imagination, space, heroism, and on and on and on. Instead of the hard things we cannot change, why not dwell on those good things life has given us?
My cat who is our family pet and friend will die one day soon. Should I dwell on that every day or simply enjoy him all his days? The cat may live 15 years, not much time at all, but he doesn't seem to mind his lot at all, and looks forward to going outside to stalk a mouse or bird with glee everyday. He enjoys his life! So should we.
Sincerely,
Dave VanAllen
From: Svetlana Shihova [mailto:sshihova@hotmail.com]
Date: Saturday, February 09, 2002 9:31 AM
Hi again,
But can you proof that there is no life after death?
Andrey
To: "Svetlana Shihova"
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 04:49:31 -0500
Can you prove there is life after death?
There may be fairies at the bottom of the pond. There is no evidence of fairies being at the bottom of the pond, but you cannot prove that there are not fairies at the bottom of the pond, so shouldn't we be agnostic in regard to fairies?
This is an example of your reasoning. I cannot prove something that does not exist, that is silly. Prove there is no Santa Claus. Prove that there are no ghosts. Prove that there are no UFOs with aliens from Jupiter visiting our planet everyday. To prove something, is to prove something is, not to prove something is not. The burden of proof lies with the person asking to prove the existence of a thing.
You have no proof of life after death - NONE. And neither does anyone else. I have plenty of proof that once people are in the ground they stay there until they become dust, unless they are mummies from ancient Egypt, in which case they may still be around to look at, but they don't say much. Dead is dead, just like my cat and dog, just like every animal in the zoo, just like every person so far.
Dave VanAllen
From: Svetlana Shihova [mailto:sshihova@hotmail.com]
Date: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 2:58 PM
I am asking if you can prove there is no life after death because otherwise whatever you say it's just your personal conviction, just like any religion. And whatever you tell your children is a lie as well, just my opinion.
To: "Svetlana Shihova"
Tue 2/19/2002 10:46 AM
Can you prove their are no aliens in flying saucers visiting earth. If you cannot prove that their are no aliens in flying saucers visiting earth, then whatever you say about flying saucers is just your personal conviction, just like any religion. And whatever you tell your children about flying saucers is a lie, because you cannot prove there are no flying saucers.
Your reasoning is faulty. There is no evidence for life after death at all. Everyone that dies stays dead. We do not attempt to disprove the existence of things, we search out to prove things. The burden of proof is on you to prove that there is life after death. You believe that there is life after death. What is your evidence for this belief? I see no evidence of life after death, so naturally I do not believe in it as I do not believe in flying saucers. I do not believe in flying saucers with aliens, because there is no evidence of such things, only stories by fanatical people who BELIEVE in flying saucers.
In the same way there is no hard evidence for life after death, only stories by fanatical people who BELIEVE in life after death. If you want to BELIEVE in life after death, go ahead, no one is stopping you. I choose to remain unconvinced of life after death until given proper evidence.
Sincerely,
Dave VanAllen