A letter from Jonah S
I don't know exactly who or what is God or Godess but do believe that there could be a high being or creator. Maybe as many you say there might not be, but my question to you people is this: Why do you come so strongly against people believing in God?
Why attack people who believe different than you?
Science is just as factual as many religions. I mean both evolution and Islam are based on man's ideas and experiences are they not?
You people have every right to make fun of those who do believe in a creator but don't you think it's kinda silly?
Science has been wrong a lot over the years just as religions have been too, but there could be some truth found even though there were mistakes too.
These letters were published between January 2001 and February 2010. To view recent posts, go to The Main Blog at ExChristian.Net
47 comments:
Dear Jonah, Are you old enough to be be playing on the computer by yourself?
Pete - this is a good opportunity to explain the difference between science and religion. They are not both *ideas*. Science is the objective study of nature. Religion is guesses and wishful thinking. I could go on but i have to get out of the office... someone please take over!
Why do you come so strongly against people believing in God?
I don't personally care if people believe in God or not. I do care what that belief causes people to think, say, and particularly - do.
Why attack people who believe different than you?
Because the people who believe differently than me (Christians) hold dangerously absurd and ignorant beliefs.
Science is just as factual as many religions.
That statement shows how much you know about science, which is apparently nothing. Religions have few, if any, facts with which to back their claims up. Science is built upon research, evidence, theory, and facts.
You people have every right to make fun of those who do believe in a creator but don't you think it's kinda silly?
No, I don't think it's silly to make fun of god believers, but it can be fun. Glory!
Science has been wrong a lot over the years just as religions have been too, but there could be some truth found even though there were mistakes too.
Science is a self-correcting discipline. Religion has no such mechanism. When religion is wrong, it stays wrong, and leaves fundamentalists in the position of having to defend indefensible nonsense.
Science can be observed and experienced where as God cannot. Now, hold on before you go on a rant about experiencing God. Have you ever heard of endorphins or norepinephrin? I am pretty sure that these are chemicals released by the brain during heights of excitement and religious experiences. Now, I'm no scientist, but I'm sure I can find proof for that. What we can't find proof for is a creator of the universe. Much less a creator that cares deeply about his/her creation. You can't see, smell or touch it.
You come on this website and ask why we are so against people who believe in a higher power. I am sure I speak for several people when I say this: we don't care who believes what. It's the people that insist shoving their personal beliefs, which there is no proof for, down our throats and expecting the rest of the world to believe and act as they do. It's the judging and condemning when their own holy book tells them not to. It's the condemning of personal lifestyles that aren't hurting anyone. It's putting their noses where they don't belong. It's annoying.
And one last thing... you don't know where most of us have come from or what we've been through. It's not like we can just go to work and vent to others how our Christian families have disowned us or expect most of society to understand us. Most people are still uneducated and naive on these subjects. The school system cannot even touch it because the church and the religious right won't allow it. So, what happens? People like you coming here without a clue of what we are talking about or why.
G'day!
Jonah,
I agree with Brother Jeff entirely. I couldn't have said it better myself. Nevertheless, there are a few points I would like to re-emphasize.
Brother Jeff said,"Science is a self-correcting discipline. Religion has no such mechanism."
Science is progressive. It's always coming up with new stuff. It has been wrong, but when we find out it's wrong, we correct it. Science stands up to the most severe scrutiny.
Conversely, the most fundamental precept involved in religion, the existence of God, has yet to be proven. In fact, there is no evidence whatsoever for the existence of God. Religion crumbles under the weakest scrutiny.
You said, "Science is just as factual as many religions. I mean both evolution and Islam are based on man's ideas and experiences, are they not?"
Have you been to school? Have you ever taken a science class? Science is based on research and empirical evidence. In contrast, Islam is based on the Koran, much of which was plagiarized from the Bible. It was written by Mohammed, an illiterate sheep trader (It goes to show you that you don't have to be able to read a book in order to write a book.) and spread through the Middle East by military conquest.
You said, "You people have every right to make fun of those who believe in a creator, but don't you think it's kinda silly?"
It's no more silly than ridiculing the KKK, or the Nazis. Religion is mind control. Ministers use religion to control people and earn money shamelessly, as well as inflate their insatiable egos.
Religious leaders prey on the weak. People who have emotional problems are met by pastors who promise them hope, love, and an afterlife, and at the same time, are asked to empty their wallet in the offering plate.
They pour guilt on the unaware. How many teenagers have been in fear of eternal damnation just for starting to learn to deal with their sexual feelings?
How many of the elderly have been duped out of their life savings just because a pastor told them the more they give to God, the more they will receive?
Religious leaders are shameless charlatans, and religious followers are emotionally weak people. (I know, I used to be one.)
Science represents the evolution of mankind. Religion represents the de-evolution of mankind.
I am going to continue to ridicule religion.
Hi Jackie,
the book "Why God Won't Go Away" explains the chemical reactions in the brain when people meditate or pray. Which, by the way, is the same for every belief system or meditation.
I agree with everything else that was already said. Science is, well, science. Religion is not. You can't even compare the two.
It's like comparing actual food to the "word of god" that is supposed to be more important than actual food. At least one person has tried to live of it. He died.
Yes, religion is ridiculous, when people make important life decisions according to some religious book, when they kill someone because their god told them to do it, when they force others to be something they can't be and don't want to be (like straight, when they're gay, or religious when they're not), when they preach against sex and then have an affair, when they deprive themselves and others of normal human behavior in the name of some god, when they believe that god's crucified-but-alive-in-heaven-son comes back to - do what? - when they believe they believe in the only right god and religion and whatever they read in this old book is anything but a mythological writing....
Ridiculous.
Jonah, at this very moment religious people are terrorizing their own children with threats of eternal punishment in Hell.
Right now, teachers in religious schools are brainwashing students by presenting creation myths as "science".
(And, as several other people have already pointed out, you don't appear to know very much at all about science.)
Believers are regularly mucking about in secular law, pretending that the biases of their "holy" books represent objective morality. They favour bloody and primitive punishments, promote regressive and patently unfair family law, block civil rights for women and for the GLBT community, and generally treat different-believers and non-believers as second-class citizens.
Oh, and a frightening number of religious people actually think the end of the world is a good thing. This is an extremely stupid idea that has the potential to be lethal to all of humanity, and I will not let it go unchallenged.
The day that the religious people of this world stop fucking around with civil society and stop willfully damaging the minds of innocent kids, I will gladly re-sheathe My sword. In the meantime, all bets are off.
You ask: "Why do you come so strongly against people believing in God?" and "Why attack people who believe different than you?"
I'd like to point out that its often the other way around. In my experience its believers who feel the need to attack and argue with non-believers. When we come back with a rebuttal, it brings the whole "they're attacking our beliefs" reaction.
Happened to me just earlier today for about the dozenth time...
Why come so strongly against people beliving in God?
1. A christian comes to exchristian.net to talk about God- what do you think is going to happen?
2. It has nothing to do with people having different opinions. Most people think Jonnie Depp is a great actor- I think he's a pussy but you won't find me on a Johnny Depp thread because I don't give a shit about JD. From an Atheistic point of view much of religious philosophy is immoral and dangerous but...
3. See things however you want and say any damn thing you want because you don't have to worry too much about atheist suicide martys blowing you up because they think you're ideas are dumb- you'll only find that kind of behavior coming from believers. Oh yeah, and please don't run for public office.
Also, science can never be wrong because its a model for observing the natural world and not a living person. Proper science makes no assumptions and holds no bias. It's faceless and cold and in that regard is infallable. the hypothoses change all the time based on ever-expanding data but the model is simple and perfect and infallable. Religion is, well, the opposite of everything I just said.
why attack? cuz you are an idiot.
Yes Steve P, You make an excellent point!
"Science is just as factual as many religions. I mean both evolution and Islam are based on man's ideas and experiences are they not?"
What kind of jackass says something like that? Shit, even when I was a christian I knew better than not to open my mouth and say something so retarded. Piss off, you mental midget.
Jonah,
First of all, I'm just so relieved that you finally made it out of that whale (wait, it was a fish, right?). I really don't know how you could have had enough air to breathe in its stomach and all, especially with the acids that I thought would have dissolved you in a few days. But man, you're back. But I bet that you're probably not gonna go near the water anytime soon. I can only imagine how mentally scarred you are from that ordeal...
Secondly, I may be wrong, but from what I've just seen recently, it seems like every article that starts with "A letter from..." (As opposed to "From..." or "By..." or "Sent in by...") is from a deluded idiot. Is it that they actually sent in paper letters because they vow never to look at the website again, and they are unwilling to see any of the comments they might provoke? I think it might just be so, as no idiot I've yet heard from seemingly has the balls to post a response to our denunciations of him/her.
NEW RULE (as Bill Maher would say): Don't let religious apologists send in their opinions unless they are willing to follow them up with further debate.
Anyway, it's been said by others so well, but I'll reiterate things (as others have done, too).
Many (especially "Western" - that is, in fact, "desert nomad") religions pose a threat to any kind of society that I'd want to live in. Ask a gay couple who can't get married or an American slave from the 1850s (or a Saudi Arabian slave from the 1950s. Yes, they had slavery in the '50s), or dead "witches" or even atheists now who live in the dirtiest parts of the dirty old South (I'm from Charlotte and haven't had many problems. Then again, it's the don't-ask-don't tell policy, isn't it?) Ask the women who cover their whole bodies to be safe from rape (although the majority are probably too brainwashed to think of any other way to live). In short, we fight against religion because we think that it's harmful.
Queston: (Although you'll never read this or any of the other comments because you are scared to see the horriffic ass-kicking you've gotten.) -- Have you ever asked Muslims why they come so strong against anyone who isn't Muslim? I'll bet (odds 10 to 1) that you've never said these same things to Muslims. Really, we just have our own fun website, and we stick to it (instead of hijacking planes and beheading people that we disagree with). You got an ass-kicking on this webpage, but you didn't get one in real life. And that's another difference between us and some of the most crazy religious folks...
If you think that we're all coming strongly against people who believe in a god, just because they believe, then I'm afraid you might have a reading comprehension issue when perusing this site. I speak for myself when I say that I don't really care who believes in what or whom. What gets under my skin is people who try to force their beliefs onto me and my family. What makes me downright furious is when people try to harm me or my family because we do not believe in their god. I've no problem with belief. To each his own, as long as he leaves me out of it and doesn't hurt anyone.
I've never attacked people who believe differently than me. Oh, I've ranted and raved about ignorant fundies who have told me I'm condemning my unborn child to hell because I'm not going to be raising him with a religion (more specifically, Christianity.) I've vented about people who have called me "retarted" (sic) for daring to use my own brain for logical reasoning instead of falling for their circular arguments. And I've also been known to shun an elderly neighbor that invited me over to her house and held a gun on me, while making me say how much I love Jesus. (Which I don't, but I love my life, so I'll say anything to preserve it.) But attack people for simply believing differently than me? No. Never.
I am going to have to disagree with you about your opinion on science. Science and religion do not mix. I'm sorry, but they are two different subjects that use different lines of reasoning (for lack of a better term.) Science is based on observation, data, theories, facts, etc. It is cold and logical. Religion is based on emotion and is subject to interpretation. Completely different.
If religion followed the rules of science, then there would only be one correct faith and everyone in the world would universally accept that faith without trying to kill each other over it. Yet, human beings are still killing each other and making each others lives unpleasant due to a difference of religion, so that must not be the case.
Likewise, if science were like religion, then something as simple as the composition of water, H20, would be variable from person to person and subject to debate. But it is not subject to debate, because a molecule of water is made up of two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom. Call it H2O2 by adding another oxygen atom and it's not water anymore. Oh, I guess you could call hydrogen peroxide, water, but would you really want to drink 64 ounces of it a day? I wouldn't--like I mentioned earlier, I like being alive.
Personally, I don't poke fun at people just for believing in a creator. I poke fun at people who believe in a creator and then try to use logic to prove it. Faith cannot be proven. You either believe or you don't. To try to prove a feeling is futile and silly. People who decide to try to convert others by "proving" that their faith is correct invite ridicule.
Yes, different scientific theories have been proven wrong over the years. That's how the scientific method words. As new data is gathered, sometimes the old data does not match and it has to be corrected or completely thrown out. Science is not about being right, it is about finding knowledge. Even a scientific failure is not seen as a bad thing because a failure brings a scientist closer to a success. As for religion, so long as it remains subject solely to interpretation, it cannot be proven right or wrong and therefore cannot accurately be compared with science. There's no facts to go on, just feelings. Feelings cannot be measured or observed.
Wow, Jonah, what an interesting post.
I won't reiterate the good points already said, but will ask you a couple of questions:
Why attack people who believe differently than you?
You have every right to make fun of those who don't believe in a creator, but don't you think it's kind of silly?
Come on, Jonah, let's discuss the issue. The only thing I'd ask is that you bring an open mind.
Jonah: You come across as being very young or very uneducated or both. You are exactly what the religions want. They can take a naive
person like you and mold them into someone who can't think for himself and who will give them money. I'll bet you like
watching Benny Hinn and Peter
Poppoff (sp?) on TV every week. Unless you get yourself really up to date with what the world is really like and what science is really trying to say, you won't have much chance to progress. Read the bible and think about what it is telling you. This alone should clue you in to how completely ridiculous the bible stories are. If not,
get someone who is not a priest or pastor to help you understand what life is about. I fear for you.
I wont attack you!
YOur right, there COULD be one. However, there is no evidence for or against the existence of god.
What I am agaisnt, are people who like to assert there is a god and then expect the masses to follow a narrow definition of what that supposed god could be. There is a real danger when we allow personal beliefs to dictate the state of affair in education, science, healthcare and politics.
Brent -- ok, now you're going to Pastafarian hell. How dare you say that one of the best movie pirates (and by association, Pastafarian) is a pussy?!?
Yours,
Blackbeard
blackbeard,
I will go on to say pirates in general are pussies and that they are being driven to extinction by ninjas (not pussies)
FSM is dead!- He was fucking delicious. but fear not! he will rise again...in a few hours.
As with most of the previous posters, it's not that we go door to door and go after xtians. Personally, I think that should be against the law for them to have the right to bang on our doors, but religion is given a lot of free passes.
As for the subject of the OP. I don't see any pararells between science and religious belief. Sounds like your parents recently took you to see Expelled or something.
Here are a few things to think about that can show how science has improved a situation as opposed to how a believer may react.
Science has given us vaccines to combat illnesses that would have killed millions, yet in the same breath there are 'believers' who let their children die because god will heal them, instead of giving them a simple dose of insulin.
Science has helped us to undertand weather patterns and help us in predicting many natural disasters, that are 'not' attributed to angry god, but just the way nature works. A strong frontal boundery is conducive to tornado formation. By tracking these weather patterns we know the potential exists. The xtian on the other hand believes all these things are related to god choosing at any particular moment to obliterate someone's home and saving another. This stuff is random and just happens.
I can't sit here and argue that there is absolutely no god, because it is possible that some sort of creator or higher power exists. But thus far it has not in reality presented itself to us, and there are nothing but fable stories, that cannot prove it's existence.
To assume that if this god exists, it is paying attention to each person, each flea, each animal, each sexual act committed, and all the gazillion other things that go on simultaneously, is ludicrous at best.
I won't personally attack you, but I will give you some advice to get a little more education before opening your mouth. Check back in sometime.
I come ON people that believe in God, not against them.
Jonah,
I'll give you another reason for ridiculing religion.
I read in the news today that there is trouble between the US army and the Iraqi government over a proselytizing US soldier.
A US soldier in Iraq was discovered passing out coins with Christian messages on them to Iraqis .
Needless to say, the Iraqi government was up in arms over the incident, claiming that the US does not respect Islam or the Iraqi people.
This is in lieu of an incident earlier this month in which a US soldier was discovered by Iraqi authorities to be using the Koran as target practice.
How asinine can the whole thing be?
The US soldier who was passing out coins was an idiot for doing so, but, at the same time, the Iraqis are way over sensitive about people respecting their religion. Do they respect Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism?
For all I care, the trigger happy soldier earlier this month should have been using the Bible for target practice as well, or any other holy book for that matter.
Can't you see how silly the whole religious thing is? How is it possible to not ridicule these people?
So much controversy, misunderstanding, and hatred are stirred up over people's idiotic, meaningless religious beliefs.
It's time for the human race to leave this destructive insanity called religion behind.
It shows again that believers think entirely differently. They always say the same thing, "Why do you go against PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE."
That's either because the religion goes against PEOPLE WHO DON'T BELIEVE, or that they cannot separate the person from the belief.
Since we HAVE--separated ourselves from the belief--we are able to think that way. They are not. I don't know if one could really convince a believer of that.
Yes, the people on this site come off rather strongly against religion. but can you blame us? I lurk on this site and don't say much, but I know how much pain christianity caused me.
And if you'd like to know, I'm a pagan with a deistic view on things (with a touch of agnosticism, haha, good luck figuring that out). I however, do not feel the need like christians to run around telling everyone my views on everything and try to force them to believe it with threats of eternal torture.
I'm not attacking you, since you come across as a deist to me. However please understand that most of us here have had very negative experiences with christianity, to put it lightly. I was a christian myself for 15 years until I realized I could no longer reconcile it with science. I am not religious, but I am spiritual.
While there are things I cannot explain that I have experienced, I still put science first. Should whatever it is I've seen be explained some day, and I'm sure it will, I will gladly accept the explanation as long as it is plausible. I try to keep my beliefs flexible, something mainstream religions like christianity and islam, cannot do.
While I have my own beliefs and views, for the most part, I don't beat strangers over the head with them unless they provoke me by bible-thumping me or degrading my right to believe what I choose. My boyfriend of 3 and a half years is an atheist, my best friend is agnostic, my roommate is agnostic/deist, and while I'm that weird agnostic deistic pagan, I personally don't think that whatever the "gods" may be require worship nor do they particularly care all that much.
This life to me is what's important. I do not want to waste my life away waiting for some savior god in an ancient death cult to return when I cannot even make myself even remotely believe it's possible. I plan to raise my children as agnostic/atheistic and allow them to find their own beliefs. As long as they are harming no one including themselves, I will be perfectly happy.
Unlike my family, I will not force my beliefs on my future children because I do not believe my beliefs are the One Truth(tm). I readily admit I could be wrong and that's fine. Truth, when it comes to spirituality, is subjective, however science takes precedence over religion and spirituality.
I don't like the Abrahamic religions due to their rigidity. They cannot cope with change, which is the only constant in this world.
Until I see a bible written in pencil so that it can be edited to keep up with the times, I will continue to dislike christianity, islam, and judaism. But the bible states that no one has the right to change it in anyway, so I seriously doubt that'll ever happen (unless they find something else they feel falls under their god's jurisdiction and chuck it in there along with the rest of it like so many before them).
In public I do not seek christians out and begin harassing them. It is not my place to tell anyone what to think. It just pisses me off that they think that that is exactly what they are supposed to do.
The day mainstream christians stop heckling me about my beliefs I will be glad to respond in kind. Until then I'm going to have to bear with crazy fundies coming to my campus and shouting hate messages and having their small children pass out pictures of mutilated fetuses. I'll have to deal with my mother's fear of me burning for eternity.
I try to stay as quiet these days as I can, but everyone has a boiling point, and after being repeatedly told I'm wrong I feel I have the right to tell them to shove it and respect my mind.
As long as they keep their religion to themselves and not try to force it on me, I won't say a word. Live and let live.
Sorry if this reads a bit awkward. I'm half asleep at the keyboard.
Im not against God, Im agianst the christian/islamic/jewish version. I hope that makes sense. You said that religion makes a lot of mistakes, well the christian religion sure has made enough mistakes to write a book about. I consider myself a Pagan anyways, I come here because I dont like the fact that most christian beliefs were stolen. thank you though.
Why do we come so strongly against people who believe in God?
Because such people seem to find it impossible to keep their delusion to themselves.
Because they pass such beliefs on to their children.
Because their god plans to torture everyone who doesn't believe in him in a lake of fire for ever and ever...BUT HE LOVES US.
Because belief in God can be destructive and even deadly. (Just ask a doctor who had to watch a child die because her Jehovah's Witness parents wouldn't let her have a blood transfusion. Or ask anyone who lost family or friends on 9/11.)
Because believers want me to be as enslaved to dogma as they are, instead of thinking for myself.
Because some of them think that America is and should be a "Christian" nation, and I don't want them running my country.
Because some of them _want_ there to be a war in the Middle East, so that Armageddon can happen and Jesus can return and they can all go to heaven.
Is this enough reasons, or shall I go on?
This is actually as easy one to solve. All you need to do is know that Satan is against anything from the Scriptures and those that are influenced by him will naturally come against anything to do with the God of the Scriptures (Genesis to Revelation).
"I will put enmity between you [Satan] and the woman, and between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise His heel." (Genesis 3:15)
M, you are a fuck-tard. Nowhere in Genesis is satan ever mentioned. Just because you add it to the verse and put brackets around it, does not make your delusional statement a reality.
[Ass-wipe], go preach your asshole tripe, somewhere else.
--S.
Sconner, I´m refering to the original Hebrew and the meanings of the words. Unfortunately man has twisted the Word. I have copied and pasted all that´s below from an online book (www.yadayahweh.com):
"The serpent (nahas - snake, viper, and poisonous cold-blooded reptile) was, is, and will be (hayah - exists as) crafty and cunning (‘aruwm - shrewd and sensible), more than (min) any (kol) living thing (hayyah - life form) of (‘asher - in relation to) the open field (sadeh - expanse of land [i.e., outside the Garden]) that Yahuweh, God, had made (‘asah). He [Satan] said (‘amar - told and claimed) to (‘el) the woman and wife (‘issah), ‘Indeed (kiy - surely, truly, and clearly), so what if (‘ap - even if, by contrast on the other hand, nevertheless) God (‘elohym - the Mighty One) said (‘amar - claimed and told you) not to (lo’) eat (‘akal - consume food) from (min) any (kol) tree (‘es) in the protected garden enclosure (gan).’" (Genesis 3:1)
In Revelation, Satan, which is merely a title meaning "Adversary," and not a name, is specifically identified as "the serpent." By using ‘aruwm in relation to this dark spirit, Yah is telling us that our adversary is not only "shrewd," but also "sensible." He is "clever," which means that he is "tricky." As such, don’t expect an ugly fellow with horns advancing a mantra which is purely evil. He wouldn’t fool anyone with such a routine.
Just to add Genesis 3:15 in it´s full meaning, hopefully Sconnor you will realise the the Serpent was identified in verse 1 of the same chapter:
"Hostility and animosity (‘ebah - enmity, a deep seated dislike, and rancor, bitterness and ill-will, hatred) will be constituted and established (shiyth - be placed) between (bayin) you [Satan] and the woman (‘issah - wife) and between your [Satan’s] seed (zera’ - kernel which propagates a species, offspring) and her [Chawah’s] offspring (zera’ - seed). He [the woman’s offspring] shall crush (suwp - pressing down upon and bruise) your [Satan’s] head (ro’s - source, beginning, sum total, chief, and place of sensory perceptions and thought) and you [Satan] shall press down upon (suwp - crush and bruise) his heel (‘aqeb)." (Genesis 3:15)
M..All you need to do is know that Satan is against anything from the Scriptures and those [who] are influenced by him will naturally come against anything to do with the God of the Scriptures
I have to wonder how we can avoid being "influenced" by [Satan]..i.e.."evil", if we are ALL, according to "scripture", "sinners" to BEGIN WITH. In other words, we are all born a bunch of damned, worthy of punishment, wreched, "sinners"...yet, we shouldn't let ourselves be influenced by the evil ghost, "Satan".
Huh! Like we need his help to be "evil"?
Christianity is INSANE.
Although, I'm sure, M, you'll have some kind of bizarre rationalization, with plenty of brackets.
M, you are bat-shit crazy. Again, satan or the devil or the adversary, NEVER makes an appearance, in The Garden of Eden or in Genesis. There is a talking serpent, however -- but to construe it as satan, is adding layers of interpretation, that isn't in the context to begin with, nor did the author intend it. The translation for the Hebrew word "!tx" is "adversary" or "satan", depending on the context and it is NOT found in the story of The Garden of Eden.
Get your facts straight.
Your investigative skills are sorrily lacking. I suggest you do some real research and learn something, before you go making stupid, dumb-fuck, statements, you know nothing about.
--S.
M proves that quoting from a book does not make it true, or demonstrate you know what the hell you are talking about. It's about as smart as using the old testament to prove the new testament is "factual"
I really dont give a shit what's in genesis- it's as silly as the rest of the book. It's a waste of time debating what part of a fairy tale is more true than another part of a fairytale. It's just leaves you being a fairy....
M proves that quoting from a book does not make it true, or demonstrate you know what the hell you are talking about. It's about as smart as using the old testament to prove the new testament is "factual"
I really dont give a shit what's in genesis- it's as silly as the rest of the book. It's a waste of time debating what part of a fairy tale is more true than another part of a fairytale. It's just leaves you being a fairy....
M, sing it with me: Fairy tales, can come true, they can happen to you, if you're delusional, at heart.
And after that little jingle, M, sing us a few bars of this oldie, but goodie...
Jesus loves me, this I knoooow....if I doubt it, to-hell-I-go
"And I saw a messenger (aggelos) coming down from heaven (ouranos - the abode of God), having the key to (kleis - the power to open and to shut) the Abyss (Abussos - bottomless pit, boundless in time, the abode of demons) and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold of (krateo - had power over) the dragon (drakon - serpentine beast), the serpent (ophis - snake) of old, who is the Devil (diabolos - false accuser, one who misrepresents and slanders) and Satan (satanas - the adversary). He bound (deo - imprisoned) him for a thousand years [the duration of the Millennium], and cast him into the Abyss, and shutting and sealing it securely over him, so that he should not deceive (planao - lead astray and delude) the people (ethnos - races and nations) any longer, until the thousand years were completed and fulfilled." (Revelation 20:1-3)
The Renewed Covenant passage in Revelation helps with the link of the Serpent being Satan.
"And I saw Eslie the Borden Cow (M) wonder into the pasture (exchristian.net) and leave a bowel movement (take a dump)."
oops!...'meant Elsie the Borden Cow.
Nice comment Boomie. You seem to be understanding it now. The Scriptures are full of metaphors and it's important that we understand them. Each and every word, including names and numbers, are crucial to understanding the Scriptures. Each word has a place. Take for instance the prophet John in Revelation 8:11 names the asteroid Apsinthos (errantly called Wormwood in English versions, but means to make bitter) which is to arrive midway during the Tribulation in 2029 according to Scripture. Yahushua will arrive 2000 prophetic years after His resurrection which in 2033, the Tribulation starts in 2026, an easy calculation according to Scripture if you just look deeper. But what amazes me, is the recent astrological discovery of the Apophis (Greek mythological name meaning to cause darkness) asteroid scheduled to arrive at the same time. Both names describe accurately what it will do. Revelation 8 speaks of a few successive events, firstly of a nuclear war, secondly a Volcano (most likely the Cumbre Vieja volcano), thirdly the asteroid, fourthly... OK, now for your lambasting!
God's pattern is alwasy 6+1. Since Adam's fall man has had almost 6000 years, we're about to enter the 7th day. God will take His rest on the 7th day and we're still in the 6th day (period of time in this case) of creation and it's coming to its end. Genesis confirms an old universe as well as the progression of life on earth, starting in the sea in Day 5, known as the Cambrian Explosion. Man being the last to appear, at the end of Day 6, and around 200000 years old. We work for 6 and rest on the 7th day to know that we cannot work for our salvation as it is a gift...
But yes, each word has a meaning in Scripture and it's best to look to the originals.
God reveals to those who want to know, the rest remain blind. God has blocked all other ways, a person cannot find Him unless they come through Yahushua (Jesus).
To comment on Jackie's post from earlier: The Scriptures and science agree and it's a matter of just searching deeper. God can also be proven, just simply a matter of reading His Word and understanding history, even secualr history. You will find He has consistently told the truth, He has a 100% accuracy record regarding prophetic fulfillment, and is also accurate scientifically and historically. How do you know a person's telling the truth? You test it and check it out to see if it's real. Don't get caught by the world's moral code of politically correctness, that of being intolerant of intolerance. Man trying to be his own god has lead to two world wars, and will usher in the third. God's Word actually tells us to judge, to discern between right and wrong and to make it known. We do not judge the person's fate but must condemn the lies that blind them. For example: to speak out against abortion, homosexuality, divorce, etc. We stand for family values, it's what God's Word is all about.
"Boomie" is the nickname we give a boomslang as the deadly little snake is very common where I come from.
Yes, "M", I'm understanding it very well---religion cripples an otherwise thinking brain.
BTW, there are many failed biblical "Prophecies". But since you believe, a priori, that the bible is inerrant, I'm sure you'll have your cookie-cutter rationalizations.
Boomie, ironically you are right, "Religion cripples an otherwise thinking brain." Throughout the Scriptures God tells us to use our brains, to test His Word to see if He's telling the truth, to discern between right and wrong, to acquire knowledge, wisdom and understanding. God hates religion because yes it cripples a person's brain, this is why Satan uses religion for his purposes. He twists the Word for his purpose, for example taking God's Name of Yahuweh out of the Word and replacing it with his title of Lord, which has the same meaning and is the title of Baal, from the pagan sun-gods religion. It immediately takes a personal relationship (what God wants) out of the equation and creates this servant-master type relationship. With it Man can elavate himself into superior positions and lord himself over others too. The majority of Christianity is religious, they've completely missed the ball. In Islam one has to completely ignore all ratonale thought to submit to its rules, you should read www.prophetofdoom.net.
M
I know you think that you've read a lot of enlightening stuff and your hours apon hours of "research" have given you a higher sense of understanding than what is available to us common folk. There was a time when I subscribed to the same type of propaganda and reverse-engineered theories about scripture and all of that rubbish until I woke up and realized that most of the crap I believed was contrived and only served to make me feel good and sound smart (in reality I sounded ignorant). Regarding your silly Apophis asteroid prophecy: The asteroid that you conveniently credit the wormwood prophecy to in Rev that would supposedly collide with earth or the moon or whatever in 2029 was originally calculated to have an approximately 3% (relatively high) probability of a collision. Additional improved observations have eliminated that possibility (this information is easy to find online). Additionally, you mentioned:
"firstly of a nuclear war, secondly a Volcano (most likely the Cumbre Vieja volcano)"
Why most likely that particular volcano? it seems to me that the yellowstone supervolcano would be just as likely a candidate. Doesn't climate change play into this grand theory? What about cosmic gamma rays? Why not massive solar flares or a geological methane belch from underground? My point is that there are 99 ways for extinction on Earth. Inevitably, one of these many threats will eventually wipe us all out. There are in fact, so many ways that humans could meet their end that you will never be able to come up with a unified theory for how all of these will play into the end times. When 2030 rolls around and no apocalypse has yet occurred you'll just amend all of your theories and reverse engineer new ones based on bible scripture and you're kind will do it over and over for another few hundred years until god is finally a memory. Wasn't the second coming supposed to happen in 1989? Or was it 2000? Wait a minute, aren't you completely forgetting about 2012?
Everyone knows about metaphor in mythology- that's how myth works but your metaphors are bunk. How about this metaphor: The serpent was adam and his tempting cock of seduction. The forbidden fruit was eve's tight hole. Nevermind, that's kind of boring.
BTW, Are you from sub-saharan Africa? I ask because I read that that's where the boomslang is from. Just curious.
"M"...In Islam one has to completely ignore all ratonale thought to submit to its rules..
Hello, Pot?.....meet Kettle.
Good post Brent.
"Why not massive solar flares...?" Well, the fourth bowl judgement speaks of that too, or at least describes it pretty close.
No, it's not reverse engeering, though that can also really help. But going to the original Hebrew and Greek to get proper understanding, the English versions are horrible, to say the least. I haven't studied Hebrew nor Greek but there are plenty of Lexicons and dictionaries to help, and some people have done all the gritty work of expanded translations. Once you have the right words it begins to fall into place. For example, we find in Genesis Day 5 life came from the waters and progressed to land, but the English version separate sea and land-life whereas the original clearly says that life was conceived in the waters. And still, Day 5 went on to produce Large Reptiles (Dinosaurs) too, which is missed in the English versions.
Read the link below for End of the World prophecies to see a list of predictions that have come and gone:
http://futurehistory.yadayahweh.com/Future_History_Appendix_Chronology.Prophecy
But simply said: none of the previous predictors took God's Word into account, they failed to take every verse, especially the Torah into account, the foundation to understanding God's mind.
Why that Volcano: It's location and threat it poses fits the picture best. Though it could also fit nicely to anyone of the volcanoes in the Pacific too.
I'm actually not so concerned of what Man thinks of me anymore because I know we will not be liked and considered vermon on the earth. A Day (Feast of Trumpets in this case) is coming when He will remove us first and the come clean house (Leviticus 14:33-54, a nice one for metaphors, do you really think He is concerned about mildew/plague and wasn't talking about something deeper), not to mention the other countless times He says He will remove His people first. But on this Day man will most likely blame it own aliens, because "God wants harmony between all people, races, religions, etc. on earth and the believers were the troublemakers." The little peace party will end with man almost destroying the earth, though natural events will do most of the work.
Don't worry, the flubbed-up "link" is the least of your troubles.
Brent, yes as far south as you can get in Africa, though I've actually relocated across the ocean.
Since Islam has been mentioned a few times in the post I will mention it more. Psalm 83 gives an accurate account of the current situation regarding Islam, down to the very words they speak across the media. Ezekiel 38 and 39 go into great detail concerning the battle that will happen when the Islamic forces join together to take on Israel, leading to WW III.
Islam was prophesied already back in Genesis 16, Muslims even claim to be descendants of Ishmael:
"Then the messenger (mal'ak) of Yahweh said to her, 'Your offspring will be too numerous to count.' And the messenger (mal'ak) of Yahuweh said to her, 'You are pregnant with a son. Call his name Ishmael (yisma'e'l - listen and obey, submit and be obedient, i.e., Islam/Submission). Yahuweh has heard of your affliction ('ani - distress and suffering, poverty and persecution, misery). He shall be a wild ass (pere' - donkey) of a man ('adam). His hand (yad) will be against everyone and everyone's hand will be against him. And he will live in the presence of howling jackals ('oah - wild desert killers who scream, fiery companions who inflict woe, countrymen who are enraged acting like yelping hyenas, relatives who are despondent, and brothers who inflict pain as false prophets)." (Genesis 16:10-12)
The prototypical Islamic terrorist was described by Yahuweh 2,700 years before the first wild ass brayed: "Allahu Akbar!"
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