Dave, If you are an ex-christian then you know that Jesus esixts and that he loves you. Satan does not love you or care anything for or of you. I beg you to change your mind and reevaluate your decision to step away from the Lord and talk and pray to Him about your questions. If you maintain this thought process you will regret your decision after death. If you need answers my pastor is very knowledgeable and has never told me to "just have faith". Please, send my your questions and I will get you answers. Jesus Loves You.
Josh Duncan
joshduncan80 at yahoo dot com
These letters were published between January 2001 and February 2010. To view recent posts, go to The Main Blog at ExChristian.Net
36 comments:
Josh,
This ex-christian knows that Jesus never existed and there is no such thing as Satan, or god, for that matter. But you know everything, being about sixteen years old.
Josh,
Please then have your pastor state his case that jesus did in fact walk on this earth.
By the way, how old are you?
Josh says:
"Jesus exists and that he loves us!" Wow!
"Satan does not love us or care anything for us" Gee!
"If we maintain this thought process we will regret our decision after death" Egad!
Hey! I want to become like a little child again, like Josh. I am going to e-mail him and ask him to find out from his pastor how I can do that. His pastor is very knowledgeable, and wise, and not just your typical "Good OLE Boy" who graduated from a hick bible school, and is fleecing the flock. ( Never mind what he may be doing with the church secretary)
Dan (Who feels certain that the preacher is alive and well, but have to admit that I do have some reservations about Jesus and Satan.)
"If you are an ex-christian then you know that Jesus esixts and that he loves you. Satan does not love you or care anything for or of you."
Actually Josh, you're projecting your ideas about the way the world works on us. We are not ex-Christians because of rebellion. We became ex-Christians because of knowledge, reason, and understanding.
Since we do not believe in the myth of Jesus as God, Savior, or Messiah, it follows we do not believe in the mythical entity you call Satan.
"...talk and pray to Him about your questions."
Josh, most of us no longer have any questions about our former faith, except maybe "Why can't they see it's all crap!?" Like many Christians, you assume that we left because we had questions that remain unanswered.
But really, what you're advocating is that we put our blinders back on and just trust in God. Below, you say that you and your pastor don't advocate just having faith (which contradicts the Bible, of course), but that's what your statement here really is saying. This may be your ideal, but we've chosen otherwise.
"If you maintain this thought process you will regret your decision after death."
Many here don't buy this at all, including myself. But, even if you're right it is our decision.
"If you need answers my pastor is very knowledgeable and has never told me to "just have faith". Please, send my your questions and I will get you answers."
A generous offer, if we had questions we wanted answers to. Josh, when we were still questioning our faith we asked dozens, perhaps hundreds of people for answers. What it all boils down to is personal belief. You can choose to believe or not to believe. Logic & reason have nothing to do with it.
It will all boil down to an emotional appeal
Oops. That last line is extraneous.
No. I don't "KNOW" that Jesus ever existed, and neither do you. You choose to BELIEVE he exists, or to say that you believe this.
Most people at exchristen.net were once like you but wised up through rational thought and study, of the bible as well as a vast number of other writings pertaining to religion as well as science – and not just from one side, either. I suggest that you open your mind and engage in a similar pursuit of knowledge. Then, when you have reached a conclusion not based on a single source, come back and let us know if you still "believe."
I really like the part about how your pastor is "knowledgeable". I bet he has a collection of zondervan paperbacks that is the envy of christendom.
Listen, sweet ears, grow the fuck up, okay? Find yourself a girl with no moral sense (girls are SOOOO nice)and ditch the jesus shit. You are a young boy,scared and lonely, and so help me christ, I can feel your hands shake.
If your deity exists-which I fucking doubt--it does not stand to reason that he wants to punish us for merely exercising the ego, reason,and free will that he gave us to begin with. We are sentient beings--can you say "sentient"--and it is just plain silly that we are going choose wrong and piss him off. No honey, not if he gave us that power to begin with.
Why don't you get this great pastor of yours, a graduate of the Abundant Life Bible College of East Jesus, Arkansas, to come up and tell us why an all-knowing god, someone who cast us in his image by giving us reason, would want to hurt us because we use our reason?
Hi everybody.
Josh, why would Dave "know" that Jesus "esixts"? Don´t you understand what it means to not be a Christian?
For us, it means that we DO NOT BELIEVE JESUS WAS THE SON OF GOD. In my case, it means that I do not believe Jesus (still) exists. If he ever lived, he is DEAD now and has nothing more to say.
As for Satan, as far as we know, this being is entirely imaginary. He is as real as Ahriman, Apep, Loki, Typhon or Ravana - in other words, NOT AT ALL.
But hey, Josh. Why don´t you ask your pastor, "who is very knowledgeable" what evidence he has that Jesus actually rose from the dead, and that Satan is an actual being. Let´s hear what the good man has to say. I bet it will be very interesting.
Do your best now! If you are real, that is.
Hi Brigid, I just spoke to Jesus, he'll talk to anybody! He said that he would like to make it with you in the Hay, he said he's been holding out for so long that his thingy is about to jump out of the socket...lol
Now Josh you poor lost niny!
Read below;
Jesus was the recipient of the greatest lie and cover-up ever to have been perpetrated in the history of the world.
The Virgin Birth: Was Mary a virgin? Yes
Was Mary inseminated by a God? Yes
Was Mary inseminated by the Godhead of her parish? Yes
Mary was molested and raped by the Godhead of her parish, therefore her priest had to quickly concoct a story about visitation of angels from God, because he, Mary and Joseph would have been stoned to death immediately after Mary had announced her pregnancy. The priest knew that Joseph
and all others would quickly accept the story of visitation of angels. Since Joseph and Mary were
espoused to be married, but Joseph could not confess the child to be his, because they would have been
stoned immediately, but Mary knew that the priest had molested and raped her, but could not tell
anyone about this, not even Joseph, so she and her priest concocted the whole story about visitation of angels and the coming messiah Jesus Christ the long awaited personal savior.
Jesus also, thought that he was sent by a god, because he had been told that he was every day since he was born, thus the story of Jesus is the biggest hoax ever been devised in the history of the world, just because millions of people share the same belief, does not in no way prove that it is true.
So did God or an Angel commit adultry with Mary? God was not married to Mary, neither was the Angel nor Joseph, so was Jesus a Bastard Child from an Angel, a God, or Joseph?
We'll be praying for you and your brilliant paster to figure it all out!
Please visit my blog at:
http://nomorefakegods.blogspot.com/
for prayer and consultation!
Ben, I don't know about this jesus guy. Normally I don't ball anybody who thinks he's god, but,uh.........what's mary doin' tonight?
"you know that Jesus esixts"
Actually nobody 'knows', not even you Josh.
And what's with the threats about the afterlife?
You don't know anything about that either.
Maybe it was Satan that subconsciously manipulated you into typing his number into your title?
Ooh, be afraid!
Josh honey, do you know what the devil is? The devil is that voice you keep hearing inside your head--the words that keep repeating, "you're not good enough; you must try harder and harder; you have to prove something; you are a failure; you need to be punished".
Don't play dumb, honey. We've been there; even the WM has been there.Do not be impertinent and tell him to pray about his questions. Check out his testimony and you will find that he had searched for more years than you have been alive.
You are like many people I have read here: you keep saying that salvation is a matter of searching for and finding answers. But the people here were told that christ WAS the answer. To say that we didn't search hard enough for the answers is to make excuses for your failure of a god.
Josh,
You know that Flying Spaghetti Monster esixts and that he loves you. God does not love you or care anything for or of you. I beg you to change your mind and reevaluate your decision to step away from His Noodliness and talk and pray to Him about your questions. If you maintain this thought process you will regret your decision after death. Please, read the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, all your questions will be answered. FSM Loves You.
I love it when Brigid posts.
still lurking around,
Bill
"...a collection of zondervan paperbacks that is the envy of christendom."
Good stuff, Brigid! :)
Geek,I get so worn out with people who claim that their religion is a kind of knowledge. Bah.
I was reading just this afternoon, on a christian site, that "orthodox christianity is metaphysically robust. Hume and Kant were impotent in their challenges to the metaphysics of christianity".
I'm goin', like, what? Here we have this "philosophy" that claims that god is eternal, and that his existence is accounted for by his nature; ie, it is god's nature to exist. Then energy and matter can be accounted for by creation "ex nihilo". Smell the horseshit yet?
It gets worse. christian epistemology insists that the principles of logic would not operate without god. What?
I wish christians would get themselves a flock of sheep or something and knock off the play-acting.
And thank you Bill. I love attention. Thanks. And stop that lurking, you're making me nervous.
Hi Josh you need to get out of fairy land and into the real world. There a whole new world out their for brainwashed Christians. Cheer all Jim Lee
Josh, I once came from where you are. I believed that Jesus was the only way to heaven, that Satan was out to get me, the bible was the word of God, etc.
I left christianity after finding that it just diddn't work for me, and after finding something (insights from near death experiences) that worked better for me.
I have prayed to God to show me the path for me, and it did not involve christianity, nor did it involve Jesus. When you research and read about Jesus, christianity, and it's history, you start to see that it's pretty much like every other religion, including how it borrows elements from other mythical godmen of ancient times.
Do you want to know what what Satan is Josh? It's fear. Satan is fear. The fear that keeps you where you are and prevents your growth and evolution as an individual. Satan is the fear that whispers "If you leave christianity, you'll go to hell!". Satan is the fear that whispers that everyone outside of your system of belief is damned to hell, and you'll join them if you're not careful.
God is love, and love sets you free and enables you to grow and become a better individual. Fear grips you and freezes you in place.
Will you choose God, or will you choose Satan?
hahahahahahaha.....wow I have never been a christian, and if this is the kind of stupidity christianity thrives on then I dont think I want to.
Josh?
Go back to your Suckerware rep and tell him you couldn't make a sale and therefore don't qualify for the free halo.
Now put the bottle down gently, give someone your keys, and call a cab.
Jeezus duz exzist bcuz i spoked 2 hymn 1 tyme, ant hits de trufe. Jeezis sayd dat eit waz 2, i red hit owlt ob de Bibell, itz rote bi gawld, becalz da peepol dat rote et sayz itz iz frum a ghod, an i beeleev hit.
jus becuz u dount beeleev hit dount meen hit ant tru!
eye luv jezsis wit awl mi hart. i weel saa ah spechial prar fore u awl nun beleevers.
deer gald kaint u hailp theez pour seeners, thay ant goht musch edukation, butt itz knot therr falt thay caint beeas smhart az mee iz, apemen.
Be4 u kno hit gald wheel hit ole satin upp de syde ob de hed an smac de shyt owt ob hymn four yas, an yez wheal bee savd, apeman.
Hey Josh! I've got some questions you can ask your pastor.
1. Why is it that the members of nearly every major hate based organization in this country identify themselves as christian?
2. Why is theology that was written only for adults preached to children as young as 3 or 4 years in christian churches?
3.What hard evidence can he provide that he is in fact preaching the one true version of christianity and not one of the hundreds of false versions that have totally decieved millions of unsuspecting christian-wanna-bees out there in the world?
4. If you already have your own copy of God's word and can read it all for yourself, what do you even need a pastor for?
5. Is he willing to provide hard copies of all his bank accounts and financial transactions for the last 5 years? If not, why not?
You go ahead and ask him these for me and when you get back with his answers I'll see if I can't come up with more questions.
Josh? Just one more thing before I die of boredom (Oh, for a post; give me a post; I'm melting; I'm melting)
Cookie, do you know what a syllogism is? Do you know what syllogistic reasoning is? Since you don't know what reason is to begin with, I'll take this slowly.
A syllogism is a demonstration arranged in 3 statements (usually) Example:
Socrates is a man
All men are mortal
Socrates is mortal
See how it works? If the first 2 lines are true, then the third line is true. If you don't like the third line, then you must dispute either or both of the first 2.
Okay, sweet eyes, here we go:
God is charity (1 John 4.8)
Charity is not ambitious; seeketh not her own; is not provoked to anger. (1 Corinthians 13.5)
God seeks not his own and is not angry.
References Douay version. The Jerusalem version has it "does not take offense; is not resentful". But the RSV says it best: "Love does not insist on its own way".
Choosing one version over another is not weighting the argument, it just reads better:
God is love
Love does not insist on its own way
God does not insist on his own way.
Again, if you don't like the third statement; the conclusion; then you have to alter either or both of the first 2. Try to get around me if you can, and lotsa luck. So far as I can tell, the argument is as tight as a rat's ass.
Awwwww! I almost reconverted out of sheer pity.
Josh!! Come Back! Without you, we are doomed! Teach us the word of salvation! Save us from eternal hellfire!
Looks like another case of hit and run.
How God can tell the difference between a Atheist and a Christian
A Christian:
Believes in a God and Jesus.
Prays to God.
Goes to Church.
Pretends to be a Christian.
Believes whatever any preacher tells them.
Gives the Church 10% or more.
Feels guilty and scared.
Is a coward and afraid to question their beliefs.
An Atheist:
Does not believe in Gods.
Does not pray.
Does not pretend to be a Christian.
Does not go to church.
Is not a coward or afraid to question all beliefs.
So a God knows which one of us is a Christian and who is an Atheist, just by who believes something or not!
Hey Josh... Why don't you cut the doublespeak crap?
New here so "hi" everybody!
I think the fundamental problem here is that the very concept of being an "ex-christian" compromises the integrity of what it is to actually be a "christian"!
I'll try to explain what I mean.
When we underwent our conversion experiences we were told we had been brought into the fold, we had become the chosen ones, we were no longer under sentence of eternal hell and damnation, we were saved and our lives were changed. Many of those who post here, will have had quite dramatic emotional responses to all of that. To meet one's maker and to enter into a personal relationship with him is no small thing.
However, having met God, having met Jesus, having been filled with the Holy Spirit we have now turned our back on it all. Logic would suggest that everything else should fade into insignificance at the very comparison. Yet we have done it, we are not insane, we are rational, free-thinking individuals. I am not broken-hearted by the loss of Jesus in my life (when I left my ex-partner I learned what a broken heart was and he was a mere human being). We may well miss people from our various churches (or maybe not) but I have yet to meet one ex-christian who actually missed Jesus.
You may assert that Satan has led us away from the true path and it is your decision to believe that, I will not berate you for your belief, all I want to do is ask you one simple question. Why would a perfect, loving Father-God create a being so powerful as to be able to lure his chosen ones away from him so convincingly? I have been a mother for 14 years, I love my daughter like nothing else, I would NEVER create such a trap for her. That, alone, makes me a better parent than your god who I reject wholly and completely.
So, if someone finds the One True Way, leaving that path should be impossible without experiencing tremendous loss and heart-break at that time not after death. I am still waiting. If it is Satan's work, then God created Satan in his image not Man!
Josh,
Please ask your pastor to justify torture.
Thank you.
No, I BELIEVE that Jesus existED. It's only his alleged biography, the New Testament, which was invented. After all, that book was written from 30 to 100 years after Jesus' death by men who had never once met him, nor witnessed any of the events they purport to describe. They basically made up the whole story.
And it's not hard to see where they got their ideas. All the standard Jesus stuff - the virgin birth on the Winter Solstice, casting out demons, curing diseases with one touch, turning water into wine, getting nailed up to a cross or tree as supposed penance for somebody else's crime, and the rest - was claimed for Zoroaster, Ahura Mazda, Mithras and a dozen other man-gods hundreds or thousands of years before Jesus showed up with his "Me too" act. Proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the New Testament is a plagiarism and a forgery.
And if Jesus were still alive to read it, he wouldn't even recognize himself from it. At most, he'd think it was about another guy with the same name.
yes yes yes.. MY PASTOR SAID.... HE ALSO SAID.... AND... shuddup
if ur pastor is talking about wad the bible means, havent u realized thatpastors are only creating interpretaions of the bible? whats so knowledgable about that?
KNOWLEDGE is a statement that is derived from a rational belief - rationality is similar to critical thinking.
If you prove to me that jesus existed with some genetic evidence showing that the bodily evidence lived 2006 yrs ago, and if you show that it was in a siginificant location, in terms of religion, I would agree that Jesus lives.
Dont tell me the evidence had been proven by your pastor. ull be a fool to listen to somebody else. GO LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE FOR YOURSELF!! r u going to let other people tell wad truth is?? or r u going to deprive urself of intellectual rationality
dont tell me i NOE jesus exists, dont try to appealto my emotions or conscience. we- or maybe just some- rational infdividuals only work to be infleunced only by reasoning.
dont talk if you have nothing intelligent to say
P.S. satan is a fictional name. in which part does this name ever appear in the bible?
did you noe that satan in hebrew means 'the bringer of light', not the devil? satan gives us knowledge, not god. put it thisway, the church is spreading bs. if u trust their lethal fallacies, misinterpreting wad 'satan' is and what he 'does', u r but a fool of social delusion.
so many of you say jesus never existed, and where is your evidence that he did not, and I mean concrete evidence not stuff you made up or just got from some random source. tell me who are the real preachers, the guy that writes 4 lines and leaves it at that, or the pepole who just keep going on and on and on. If you don't believe in jesus then keep it two your self, because if you don't your nothing more then a different type of preacher, preaching a different type of message. I guess in a way everyones a preacher, you people just can't admit it. oh and I must correct the anonymous analyst, Satan means adversary not bringer of light, Lucifer is Latin for light-bearer and thats just one of your mistakes.
Anony, if jesus exists, then you bring us "concrete proof", and I don't mean using the buybull as proof. Thanks, Roger
Anonymous,
The existence of a historical Jesus is a topic that comes up a lot here. It's quite fascinating. If you really wish to discuss it, I'm game. However, I have several conditions before entering into a dialog with you: 1) You need to pick a name for yourself, as I now refuse to have long discussions with anyone called "Anonymous". 2) You need to show that you've done at least a little bit of homework. For example, you might show that you understand something about mythicist theories, or know who the current proponents are, or at least know what the oft-cited primary sources of evidence for Jesus are. In other words, produce something other than the facile argument "show me your evidence that he [Jesus] did not [exist]". If you can meet those very meager requirements, then we can have at it. Interested?
'Nony de jour: "If you don't believe in jesus then keep it two your self..."
No. Absolutely not. I, for one, shall not be silenced.
Make that, two.
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