tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post4998730142185374309..comments2023-05-15T03:17:32.214-05:00Comments on Letters to the Webmaster: Some questionsDave Van Allenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08288914445803411893noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-10179727917085356162007-09-08T05:45:00.000-05:002007-09-08T05:45:00.000-05:00"the devil is goin to do every thing he can to des..."the devil is goin to do every thing he can to destroy cristians "<BR/><BR/>There are millions of churches and millions of christians <B>What's taking the devil sooo long to destroy the churches?</B><BR/><BR/>I love this one!<BR/><BR/>"god is almost comming"<BR/><BR/>as soon as god can locate the keys to his magic carpet, he's comming...lmfaoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-38841938541990154102007-09-07T18:24:00.000-05:002007-09-07T18:24:00.000-05:0013 year old girl anon said:"the devil is goin to d...13 year old girl anon said:<BR/>"the devil is goin to do every thing he can to destroy cristians"<BR/>---<BR/>Dear 13 old girl,<BR/><BR/>While no xtian (adult or child) has offered us ANY proof of your god directly, I'm willing to settle for some secondary proof, that this DEVIL you fear so greatly is actually real.<BR/> <BR/>Have you met this devil?<BR/><BR/>What does it look like?<BR/><BR/>Why does something so evil and powerful hide from us humans in the same way your god does?<BR/><BR/>How would I contact this devil of yours, pray-tell?<BR/><BR/><BR/>AtheistToothFairyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-50840851075208017142007-09-07T16:34:00.000-05:002007-09-07T16:34:00.000-05:00look people god is love ok the devil just want to ...look people god is love ok the devil just want to confuse u guys.may be because he knows that some of u were cristian and were something very special for him. god is almost coming and the devil is goin to do every thing he can to destroy cristians because he knows that they know the truth and that they are goin to safe lives please think about what u are saying because its bad to talk about god that way please take this advice from a 13 year old girl.. god bless.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-21730010581552847502007-04-01T07:53:00.000-05:002007-04-01T07:53:00.000-05:00Oh, MG, I see I missed your question on slavery.Wh...Oh, MG, I see I missed your question on slavery.<BR/><BR/>Why do I think it is wrong? I was brought up to think it is wrong. I was taught it was wrong in school. The message has been reinforced a thousand-fold over my lifetime. I would like to think that I am so altruistic that I know by nature that slavery is wrong, but I realize that would be naive on my part. If I had been born in the deep South in 1800, I would no doubt have considered slavery a good thing. I would have been taught since birth it was a good thing. The southern churches all supported the institution of slavery from the Bible. <BR/><BR/>Today, my thinking is still strongly influenced by the way I was brought up and educated. I cannot escape that, and because I was brought up a certain way, I tend to view the world through the lens of my admittedly limited background. However, I do not suppose that my view is the standard that all others should use for determining the course of their lives. That would be extremely arrogant, wouldn't you agree?<BR/><BR/>I understand that had the accident of my birth been to Islamic parents in Iran, my worldview would be completely different than the one I hold today. As such, I am grateful to have been born in a country with a secular worldview, based on secular laws, instead of a theocratic worldview nation, based on religious laws. I'm sure you can also agree with that.Dave Van Allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08288914445803411893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-36575360127890177082007-04-01T07:42:00.000-05:002007-04-01T07:42:00.000-05:00JC, please risk offending my toes as often as poss...JC, please risk offending my toes as often as possible. And thank you for doing so.Dave Van Allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08288914445803411893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-61360106698741508092007-04-01T07:36:00.000-05:002007-04-01T07:36:00.000-05:00MG, according to Wikipedia:“A worldview describes ...MG, according to <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_view" REL="nofollow">Wikipedia:</A><BR/><BR/>“A worldview describes a consistent (to a varying degree) and integral sense of existence and provides a framework for generating, sustaining, and applying knowledge. ... <BR/><BR/>The term denotes a comprehensive set of opinions, seen as an organic unity, about the world as the medium and exercise of human existence. Weltanschauung serves as a framework for generating various dimensions of human perception and experience like knowledge, politics, economics, religion, culture, science, and ethics. For example, worldview of causality as uni-directional, cyclic, or spiral generates a framework of the world that reflects these systems of causality. A uni-directional view of causality is present in some monotheistic views of the world with a beginning and an end and a single great force with a single end (e.g., Christianity and Islam), while a cyclic worldview of causality is present in religious tradition which is cyclic and seasonal and wherein events and experiences recur in systematic patterns (e.g., Zoroastrianism, Mithraism, and Hinduism).<BR/><BR/>These worldviews of causality not only underlie religious traditions but also other aspects of thought like the purpose of history, political and economic theories, and systems like democracy, authoritarianism, anarchism, capitalism, socialism, and communism.<BR/><BR/>The worldview of linear and non-linear causality generates various related/conflicting disciplines and approaches in scientific thinking. The Weltanschauung of the temporal contiguity of act and event leads to underlying diversifications like determinism vs. free will. A worldview of Freewill leads to disciplines that are governed by simple laws that remain constant and are static and empirical in scientific method, while a worldview of determinism generates disciplines that are governed with generative systems and rationalistic in scientific method.<BR/><BR/>Some forms of Philosophical naturalism and materialism reject the validity of entities inaccessible to natural science. They view the scientific method as the most reliable model for building and understanding of the world.”<BR/><BR/>My point in quoting all that is to point out that you are not really asking me about my worldview. You are using the concept of worldview as synonymous with religion. You are really asking me my religious beliefs. Well, I have no religious beliefs at all. I do not believe in the supernatural. I've seen no evidence of the supernatural and although I faithfully believed in such things for over three decades, I finally escaped the cloud of irrational thinking that is religion and began investigating the world from a more naturalistic position. <BR/><BR/>You want to know what I “base my worldview on.” I base it on nature and my observation of nature. In my mind, there simply is nothing else to base it on. Nature is the default position, once the supernatural is no longer presupposed. Nature has evidence. Supernature has none, The supernatural only exists in the imaginations of human beings. Belief in the supernatural will shape people's worldviews, but that shaping is not necessarily healthy nor rational. <BR/><BR/>Finally, all this probing into other people's worldviews... I realize this approach is a modern apologetic technique. I used this approach myself when I still “believed,” but I now fail to understand why it is considered effective. Undoubtedly there are many things in life I have not given sufficient thought to. No doubt I lack the ability to foresee the longterm affects of my current worldview, were it to be held by vast numbers of people and continue for long centuries. I am simply not equipped with either the intelligence or the education to determine such things. Therefore, I am sure there are people who could poke holes in my rather simple view of the world, which is what I sense is your hopeful intention. <BR/><BR/>However, poking holes in my view of things in no way satisfies the need for solid evidence from you that your religion in any way describes reality. Poke away at my worldview, if that pleases you, but in the end you will still have no evidence that your god impregnated a teenager and made a super-god-man who later died on a stick, ate dirt for a weekend, and then levitated into space. Showing weaknesses in my comprehensive skills will do nothing toward making stories of taking donkeys, floating ax heads, flying fiery chariots, talking bushes, talking snakes, magic mantles, holy fortune tellers, and on and on, anything more than myths – stories written to entertain ignorant peasants, or perhaps teach, or maybe just to keep them coughing up donations for the priest craft.Dave Van Allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08288914445803411893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-31097885425306448712007-03-31T22:38:00.000-05:002007-03-31T22:38:00.000-05:00Boomslang to MG: "Being an ex-christian doesn't co...Boomslang to MG: "Being an ex-christian doesn't constitute a 'belief system'. It's simple---we no longer believe the Christian doctrine. Again, we don't believe it as truth ....just like you don't believe the Islamic, Mormon, Jewish, or Scientologist doctrines as 'truth'. Now, is your lack of belief in those worldviews a 'worldview'?"<BR/><BR/>MG responds: *<I><B>No</B> my lack of belief in those belief systems is not a worldview...</I>[bold added to reference later on]<BR/><BR/>Thank you. And likewise, my lack of belief in those belief systems, <B>PLUS</B>, my lack of belief in <I>your</I> belief, isn't a "worldview". If I'm not mistaken, I believe the charge was that "ex-christianity" was a "belief system"/"worldview". <BR/><BR/>MG continues: <I>... but my lack of belief in those systems is consistent with my Christian worldview.</I><BR/><BR/>....and <I>their</I> lack of belief in Christianity is "consistent" with <I>their</I> worldviews. So?<BR/><BR/>MG: <I>All you do is say what you don't believe in....</I><BR/><BR/>LOL! Um, correct. This place is clearly marked an EX-christian website. The "what" we don't believe in, is Jesus. So when asked why we don't, or no longer believe in "Jesus Christ", it would be pretty silly to start spouting off things we DO believe in. <BR/><BR/>MG continues: <I>...without ever articulating your view and how you came to the conclusion that your worldview is correct.</I><BR/><BR/>We've already established(based on your answer here*) that non-belief is NOT a worldview. Please?...pretty please?...stick in your memory bank? And speaking of "all you do"---what you have consistantly done is to try and shoot holes in Atheism, and all the while, erroneously under the premise that if you can somehow make non-belief in gods "unreasonable", then your <I>Christian</I> beliefs will be "reasonable" by default. You are merely shifting the burden of proof, just like so many Theists do. YOU are the one making the positive claim; the burden of proof is in YOUR lap.<BR/><BR/>MG: <I>For example, Why do you say the slave trade was wrong? What is your basis?</I><BR/><BR/>Because we, as an evolved species of civilized animals; and we, as a collective society, have determined that doing UNneccessary harm to others in our group is unethical. <BR/><BR/>Now, the BETTER question is---how do YOU know that slavery is "wrong", since <I>you</I> claim that our "morals" come from a book that clearly condones slavery, as well as rape, bigotry, and murder? How's that foot taste, hmmmm?boomSLANGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03820077215682328240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-83937742127464678692007-03-31T21:35:00.000-05:002007-03-31T21:35:00.000-05:00"This is my attempt to understand the ex-christian...<I>"This is my attempt to understand the ex-christian worldview."</I><BR/><BR/>There is no "ex-Christian" worldview, as such. Not that I've seen, anyway. An ex-Christian might be an atheist, agnostic, Buddhist, Muslim (very unlikely), Jewish, Pagan, Taoist, and/or subscribe to any one of a number of philosophies and/or lifestyles. As it applies here, ex-Christian simply means "no longer Christian," just as boomSLANG said.<BR/><BR/><I>"Every person has a belief system whether it is christian, exchristian, antichristian, etc..."</I><BR/><BR/>Perhaps, but there are different kinds of belief systems. Some are faith-based, some are evidence-based. Most religions fall into the former category, whereas secular belief systems usually fall into the latter. That is, for the secularist, very little (if anything) is accepted on faith alone.<BR/><BR/><I>"So I want to understand the underlying assummptions and beliefs."</I><BR/><BR/>That depends on who you talk to here. The key thing to remember is that all assumptions are based on beliefs, so with the diversity one encounters here, this is a very, very big question. <BR/><BR/>As an atheist, my own assumptions are rooted in naturalism. That is, I think the natural world is all there is. Claims concerning the supernatural (something that breaks the laws of nature) constitute extraordinary claims, and therefore require extraordinary evidence. Gods fall into this category, as do unicorns, the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus & his flying reindeer, ghosts, ESP, telepathy, telekinesis, OBE, NDE, resurrections, demons, angels, etc., etc., ad nauseum.<BR/><BR/><I>"We all base our lives on some core foundational beliefs whether that is in God or not. We all get up every morning and live our lives based on some lens of belief."</I><BR/><BR/>That's a bit of an oversimplification, don't you think? Most of us live our lives much the same way you do; we get up, go to work or school, spend time with friends and family, and so on. Our judgments of what constitutes good, evil, love, hate, beauty and so on are also probably not terribly different from your own, with the possible exception that many of us here consider the Christian God to be neither good nor even real.<BR/><BR/><I>"...the atheistic worldview presupposes that there is nothing outside of the material world and that the supernatural doesn't exist."</I><BR/><BR/>Correct.<BR/><BR/><I>"I am trying to figure out how that conclusion was arrived to. What evidence is there that the supernatural doesn't exist."</I><BR/><BR/>I'm sorry, but this is backward. One doesn't prove a negative like that. The problem is that there is no reliable evidence in favor of belief in the supernatural, whereas there are literally mountains of evidence documenting the natural world. Simply put, the evidence for the natural is the evidence against the supernatural. If someone wants to make a supernatural claim, it is that person's responsibility to present evidence. <BR/><BR/>Having said that, no one can prove nor disprove God. It is a concept that is not falsifiable, and that is why claims in favor of it can only be countered by natural explanations for phenomena that are attributed to God, which we have in abundance. It's also why claims in favor of God must be supported by reliable evidence that can itself be falsified. To my knowledge, no one has ever presented any.<BR/><BR/><I>"You all very strongly believe that the Christian worldview is false. Well why is your worldview true and correct?"</I><BR/><BR/>Because it is predicated on the existence of reliable evidence. The Christian worldview is not, at least with regard to its own God.<BR/><BR/><I>"No my lack of belief in those belief systems is not a worldview, but my lack of belief in those systems is consistent with my Christian worldview."</I><BR/><BR/>Amen! In the same way, our lack of belief in your belief system is not a worldview, but our lack of belief in your belief system is consistent with our various worldviews.<BR/><BR/>You just answered your own question. Good job!<BR/><BR/><I>"For example, Why do you say the slave trade was wrong? What is your basis?"</I><BR/><BR/>The systems of rational moral philosophy that have developed ever so slowly over hundreds of years. As Sam Harris points out, morality can be defined in terms of the happiness and suffering of conscious creatures. Thus, slavery can be considered immoral because it selfishly ignores the happiness and suffering of slaves. No doubt this could lead to a more complex discussion, but there's a short answer.<BR/><BR/>Apologies to those whose toes I may have stepped on in answering this. :)J. C. Samuelsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15419433044496164303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-87271676456186833232007-03-31T20:13:00.000-05:002007-03-31T20:13:00.000-05:00The only thing that I get out of your answer is th...The only thing that I get out of your answer is that your worldview is that of atheism. <BR/><BR/>"To live. To survive. To reproduce" are all things that people do. They are not a worldview of core beliefs. A worldview would dictate why live,survive, reproduce. <BR/><BR/>Webmaster you didn't actually answer any of the questions. You just tell me why you don't believe in christianity instead of telling me what your alternate worldview is. Fine you don't believe in christianity; What do you believe in and how did you come to those conclusions. What standard of opbjective evidence did you use?<BR/><BR/>"just like you don't believe the Islamic, Mormon, Jewish, or Scientologist doctrines as "truth". Now, is your lack of belief in those worldviews a "worldview"?"<BR/>No my lack of belief in those belief systems is not a worldview, but my lack of belief in those systems is consistent with my Christian worldview.<BR/><BR/>My whole point is that every person including you has a belief system/philosophy. All you do is say what you don't believe in without ever articulating your view and how you came to the conclusion that your worldview is correct. <BR/><BR/>For example, Why do you say the slave trade was wrong? What is your basis?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-58345350882076353222007-03-31T19:07:00.000-05:002007-03-31T19:07:00.000-05:00Every person has a belief system whether it is chr...<I>Every person has a belief system whether it is christian, exchristian, antichristian, etc...Eventhough you are all ex-christians you still have a worldview that you have decided is more consistent with reality.</I><BR/><BR/>Being an ex-christian doesn't constitute a "belief system". It's simple---we no longer believe the Christian doctrine. Again, we don't believe it as truth ....just like you don't believe the Islamic, Mormon, Jewish, or Scientologist doctrines as "truth". Now, is your lack of belief in those worldviews a "worldview"?<BR/><BR/> <I>So I want to understand the underlying assummptions and beliefs.</I><BR/><BR/><I>What</I> "assumptions"? <I>What</I> "beliefs"? Okay, is your non-belief in leprechauns a "belief"? Are you <I>assuming</I> that leprechauns don't exist?.... <I><B>or</B></I>, are you basing your NON-belief in leprechauns on lack of objective evidence? <BR/><BR/> If some dirt-poor guy won the lotto, Lucky the Leprechaun's magical four leaf clover would explain his winnings, right? Right, it wouldn't be an improbable coincidence based on odds, hell no.....so there's no other explanation except that it MUST BE Lucky the Leprechaun's magical powers...right? <BR/><BR/>Sound's absurd, doesn't it? Welp, the Theist's "God of the gaps" argument sounds equally absurd to the Atheist. <BR/><BR/><I>We all base our lives on some core foundational beliefs whether that is in God or not. We all get up every morning and live our lives based on some lens of belief.</I><BR/><BR/>Relevance? Muslims "get up every morning"; Buddhists "believe in God", and yet, you'd surely take issue with their "core" beliefs. It is much more likely that ALL religions are false, than it is that yours is true, and all OTHERS are false.<BR/><BR/><I>You all very strongly believe that the Christian worldview is false. Well why is your worldview true and correct?</I><BR/><BR/>Because it corresponds to what we know, based on the scientific method....and science tells us that square circles don't exist.boomSLANGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03820077215682328240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-1558315979384225792007-03-31T17:16:00.000-05:002007-03-31T17:16:00.000-05:00Still looking, many people have turned their lives...Still looking, many people have turned their lives around with all sorts of religions or philosophies: Protestantism, Catholicism, Buddhism, Islam, Stoicism, ect. Just because someone turned their life around doesn't mean the religion is true. <BR/><BR/>Just because someone swears they were taken on ride on a UFO, and believes it, doesn't make it true. <BR/><BR/>Get it?Dave Van Allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08288914445803411893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-66560882139321881982007-03-31T17:11:00.000-05:002007-03-31T17:11:00.000-05:00MG, what is the world view of the trees? What is t...MG, what is the world view of the trees? What is the world view of your cat, your dog, or your horse? What is the world view of every single form of life on the planet?<BR/><BR/>To live. To survive. To reproduce.<BR/><BR/>We all -- all life forms -- desire those simple things. Finding the best way to balance the needs of the individual vs. the needs of society has been our challenge as a species since we first climbed out of the trees.<BR/><BR/>Your unsubtle presentation of Hitler as a reason for presenting the Bible as the one true standard of morality is stupid. The Bible presents numerous heinous atrocities ordered by Yahweh. In fact, Hitler can't carry a candle to Yahweh and his magical son. Those two have promised to torment most of humanity in horrific, burning misery for all eternity, for the crime of not believing in them.<BR/><BR/>I'll tell you what. If you honestly think no one would know right from wrong without moldering stories scribbled by ancient, wandering nomads, and ignorant, itinerant preachers, then I fear for your family. Apparently, you believe that you need your religion to know right from wrong and if you ever lose your religion, I suppose you'll immediately become unrestrained, and commit all sorts of perverse, child-molesting, rape and murder.<BR/><BR/>If you're too emotionally retarded to know right from wrong, those you wrong will teach you how to know the difference. There's considerable mutual agreement on many things -- just try harming someone and see what happens. Those more esoteric things we disagree with, we debate as society and make laws that are based on majority opinion. <BR/><BR/>However, if you only listen to the Bible for everything, the slave trade was a good thing, and there is no Biblical reason not to start that business back up.Dave Van Allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08288914445803411893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-57278411244466815732007-03-31T17:09:00.000-05:002007-03-31T17:09:00.000-05:00"Heaven for climate, Hell for companionship" Mark..."Heaven for climate, Hell for companionship" Mark Twain<BR/><BR/>In trying to reconcile all of this, I decided to look into atheists who became Christian and found this:<BR/>http://www.ex-atheist.com/Hell.html<BR/><BR/>I struggle with how SO MANY people can believe this and some have really turned their lives around which is hard to argue with.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-42460771559783870562007-03-31T16:13:00.000-05:002007-03-31T16:13:00.000-05:00Me: "I am also curious: What empirical evidence do...Me: "I am also curious: What empirical evidence do you have that there is no God? and how do you define love? Is there such a thing as evil? Was Hitler Evil? On what basis?"<BR/><BR/>This is my attempt to understand the ex-christian worldview. Every person has a belief system whether it is christian, exchristian, antichristian, etc...Eventhough you are all ex-christians you still have a worldview that you have decided is more consistent with reality. <BR/><BR/>So I want to understand the underlying assummptions and beliefs. We all base our lives on some core foundational beliefs whether that is in God or not. We all get up every morning and live our lives based on some lens of belief. <BR/><BR/>For example my understanding (which might be totally inaccurate and false) is that the atheistic worldview presupposes that there is nothing outside of the material world and that the supernatural doesn't exist. I am trying to figure out how that conclusion was arrived to. What evidence is there that the supernatural doesn't exist. All worldviews make presupposition based on what they believe. <BR/><BR/>You all very strongly believe that the Christian worldview is false. Well why is your worldview true and correct?<BR/><BR/>A few months ago, I had a brief discussion with an adolescent (who was of jewish background) who wasn't able to say that what Hitler did to the jewish people was wrong. I found that disturbing. I am trying to understand where that worldview comes from and is there any more evidence for that belief system versus mine. <BR/><BR/>Any insight would be appreciated.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-70422079509728870142007-03-29T09:16:00.000-05:002007-03-29T09:16:00.000-05:00nice Neanderthal peopleJust for the record, the br...<I>nice Neanderthal people</I><BR/><BR/>Just for the record, the brain cases of Neanderthal skulls shows that their brains were, on average, actually larger than average modern humans. Of course, there is debate as to the significance (or not) of that.<BR/><BR/>Eat that Geico!Spirulahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14556681288241092875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-79828257011178114572007-03-28T17:33:00.000-05:002007-03-28T17:33:00.000-05:00MG,"Actually rejecting God gives us exactly what w...MG,<BR/><BR/><I>"Actually rejecting God gives us exactly what we want: being apart from him which the Bible terms spiritual death."</I><BR/><BR/>Reductio ad absurdum. Apply the same logic to those Germans who rejected Nazi policy ca. 1939-1944, and you'll see why. Did those folks want to be executed, imprisoned, or exiled? I'm sure that, based on the logic you've proposed, someone could argue that Hitler gave them what they were asking for.<BR/><BR/>And before protesting God's innocence compared to Hitler, it might be worth your time to take another peek in the Bible. To make it easier for you to find the nasty stuff, here's a <A HREF="http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/" REL="nofollow">link</A>. Of special interest are the links on the right side of the page.<BR/><BR/><I>"I find that the Chrisitian worldview is the most plausible and most consistent with the real world (good, evil, love, beauty, etc...)"</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, the real world does have its share of good, evil, love, beauty, and so on. They are useful abstractions, and one need not be a Christian to perceive them. On the other hand, it takes a certain variety of faith to perceive the Christian God as real in all His particulars<BR/><BR/>In my experience, god concepts are neither plausible nor consistent. They may serve as convenient placeholders for things we don't understand, but the specificity and dogma that often surrounds them are a distraction. Sometimes, a dangerous distraction.J. C. Samuelsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15419433044496164303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-81541259903998170652007-03-28T16:05:00.000-05:002007-03-28T16:05:00.000-05:00So! If you have the capacity to rationalize, that ...So!<BR/> If you have the capacity to rationalize, that our creator gave all of us an equal chance to read and understand the Bible, and we all have an equal chance to reject it, and some do and some don't, then some of us must be more equal than others.<BR/><BR/> I just bet the Christian apologizers have an answer for that.<BR/><BR/>A very small percentage of the people in the world get the chance to understand and accept or reject "The Word".<BR/><BR/>Where are all the billions of people who never heard of the bible or Jesus? Are they in heaven?<BR/><BR/> I just bet the Christian apologizers have an answer for that.<BR/><BR/>How about retarded people who don't have the capacity to even understand the concept of redemption through Jesus?<BR/><BR/> I just bet the Christian apologizers have an answer for that. <BR/><BR/>How about the congenital imbeciles? The nice Neanderthal people? Are they in heaven?<BR/><BR/>God knows who will reject him even as he creates them. Oh, Oh, the deck is stacked!!!<BR/><BR/> Bible God really isn't a very nice guy is he?<BR/><BR/> I just bet the Christian apologizers have an answer for that.<BR/><BR/>When you live in a fantasy world you always have the answers, and if you don't, you just make em up.<BR/> DanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-24783781097161928152007-03-28T14:50:00.000-05:002007-03-28T14:50:00.000-05:00Married Guy wrote:Actually rejecting God gives us ...Married Guy wrote:<BR/><BR/><I>Actually rejecting God gives us exactly what we want: being apart from him which the Bible terms spiritual death. This is why there is no manipulation and no gun to the head.</I><BR/><BR/>I can't follow your line of reasoning. You're saying one can choose to "do what you want and die," or "believe in Christianity and live," yet there is no pressure or manipulation involved because man has a spiritual death wish? <BR/><BR/><I>What empirical evidence do you have that there is no God?</I><BR/><BR/>Depending of course on your definition of god there are various things to consider: prayer has been shown to be ineffective, "miracles" are consistently unverifiable, and the vast majority of religious "evidence" consists of psychological phenomena which can be explained without requiring the existence of a deity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-19407530060368491882007-03-28T14:44:00.000-05:002007-03-28T14:44:00.000-05:00MG: Just because I don't see things your way and a...MG: <I>Just because I don't see things your way and am not convinced then I am "stubborn, thick headed, etc..",</I><BR/><BR/>If I told <B><I>you</I></B>, repeatedly, that "square circles", can, and <I>do</I> exist, I would be deserving of the same charge, or worse.(for more on contradicting concepts, see below)<BR/><BR/>MG wants to know: <I>I am also curious: What empirical evidence do you have that there is no God?</I><BR/><BR/>None. Irrelevant conclusion.<BR/><BR/>Now, you are asking if I have evidence for a <I>generic</I> "deity"...i.e.."God". The fallacy of argument is that, while doing so, you are presupposing that if one had evidence for a "God", that THAT god MUST BE the Christian biblegod, no question. Bzzzzzzzzt! <B>WRONG</B>. Here's the meat and pototoes....pay attention this time: <BR/><BR/>Fact: <BR/><BR/>1) No Christian, thus far, has <I>put forth</I> any empirical evidence for their Biblegod. <BR/><BR/>2) If they had empirical evidence, that would contradict the term "Christian <I>Faith</I>", thus, making the phrase "Faith in God", obsolete. It's called "Faith", for a reason. <BR/> <BR/>3) While true, no one has absolute "knowledge" that a non-personal disembodied "entity" does not exist, on the other hand, we <I>do</I> know that "square circles" CANNOT exist. By the same logic, we can conclude that, A) any "being" that is both omniscient <I>and</I> omnipotent, likewise, CANNOT exist, and B) any being that offers love with <B>conditions</B> attached, CANNOT be an "ALL-loving" being. <BR/><BR/>Therefore, the Christian biblegod does not and cannot exist, either in reality, or in concept. Thanks.boomSLANGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03820077215682328240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-34752169060733838412007-03-28T14:41:00.000-05:002007-03-28T14:41:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.boomSLANGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03820077215682328240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-59698569128837027142007-03-28T14:01:00.000-05:002007-03-28T14:01:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.boomSLANGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03820077215682328240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-70533454075828748292007-03-28T13:24:00.000-05:002007-03-28T13:24:00.000-05:00MG, if you had to teach Sunday school; and a child...MG, if you had to teach Sunday school; and a child asked you to weigh or differentiate between the evil acts portrayed of Hitler and the evil acts portrayed of god in the bible... How… per se, would you attempt to answer the child...<BR/><BR/>Wouldn't it be prudent, to give lenience in judgment to those who aren't capable of perfection, while holding those who are capable of perfection to a higher standard?<BR/><BR/>Is there such a thing as perfect evil? I think I'd have a hard time trying to give an honest answer to the child, and I'd likely feel guilty if I attempted to side-step the issue altogether.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-39539439136209955482007-03-28T12:54:00.000-05:002007-03-28T12:54:00.000-05:00MG: "I am also curious:"Is it curiosity, or defia...MG: "I am also curious:"<BR/><BR/>Is it curiosity, or defiant challenge that compels you...<BR/><BR/>MG: "What empirical evidence do you have that there is no God?"<BR/><BR/>The exact same empirical evidence you have to support your god.<BR/><BR/>MG: "...and how do you define love?"<BR/><BR/>Unconditional/Unrestrictive care... Your ideal, god... do they fall into that category...<BR/><BR/>MG: "Is there such a thing as evil?"<BR/><BR/>To restrict love...<BR/><BR/>MG: "Was Hitler Evil? On what basis?"<BR/><BR/>He restricted love to a single race.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps, your virtues are the same MG... Unfortunate, that the Holy book presents a literal conflict with such a simple concept... Let’s look at the bible literally...<BR/><BR/>Isaiah 45:7 (NIV) - "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things."<BR/><BR/>Suppose "all these things", includes restricting love, to only a select few... I may have my limits, and may not be able to attain a 100% balance in passing unconditional love equally to everyone I meet... but... what is your god's excuse... Just curious.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-75134537191523956592007-03-28T12:21:00.000-05:002007-03-28T12:21:00.000-05:00MG wrote: "I am also curious: What empirical evide...MG wrote: <BR/><BR/>"I am also curious: What empirical evidence do you have that there is no God? and how do you define love? Is there such a thing as evil? Was Hitler Evil? On what basis?"<BR/><BR/>Although MG addressed Boom, I decided to barg in. <BR/><BR/>MG, you are the one making the fantastic claim that there is a supernatural deity out there. Until you present evidence for the existence of it, no one is under any obligation to provide evidence that it doesn't exist. That just doesn't make sense.<BR/><BR/>I mean, where is your evidence that there are no unicorns living on Uranus? Where is your evidence that there are no giant spaghetti monsters on Alpha Centauri? Where is your evidence that Allah isn't real? Where is your evidence that Zeus isn't alive?<BR/><BR/>See how silly it is to ask for evidence <EM>against</EM> a fantastic claim? <BR/><BR/>If you can't find evidence against unicorns and spaghetti monsters in space, does that mean those things are real? <BR/><BR/>As far as the rest of your questions, are you really interested in discussing these things, or are you just throwing them out because you think it proves something? Because if you are really interested in exploring questions of love and evil, there are a host of articles on this site already addressing those questions.Dave Van Allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08288914445803411893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-54363175855691512842007-03-28T11:52:00.000-05:002007-03-28T11:52:00.000-05:00Wow BoomslangJust because I don't see things your ...Wow Boomslang<BR/><BR/>Just because I don't see things your way and am not convinced then I am "stubborn, thick headed, etc.." <BR/><BR/>I am also curious: What empirical evidence do you have that there is no God? and how do you define love? Is there such a thing as evil? Was Hitler Evil? On what basis?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com