tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post3939081004911662772..comments2023-05-15T03:17:32.214-05:00Comments on Letters to the Webmaster: It is impossible to be an ex-ChristianDave Van Allenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08288914445803411893noreply@blogger.comBlogger66125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-54802856184257940012008-03-02T00:29:00.000-05:002008-03-02T00:29:00.000-05:00Anyone else notice that dominique said an unbeliev...Anyone else notice that dominique said an unbeliever will either respond negatively to the mention of jesus or they wont respond at all? Notice the bible says both? That leaves no other option of response than to reply positivly as a believer or admirer of jesus either as saviour or at the least, teacher. Either way jesus gets his props. Fuck you and your loopholes bitch. thats a loaded statement you and your bible through out there.It tries to make an argument impossible but we see past it. I can say the same thing about a christian hearing that someone is an atheist. In fact, I will. A christian hearing that someone is an atheist will either respond negatively with attempts at fear or conversion, or will ignore or otherwise overlook the statement of said atheist.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-47983729886843776332007-05-14T10:55:00.000-05:002007-05-14T10:55:00.000-05:00I think most of our anger at Christianity come fro...I think most of our anger at Christianity come from hurt. I said most, not all. Anger is a natural reaction to being duped for many years. Many people I went to Bible college and Seminary with invested a lot in their beliefs. They are not fly by night Christians. I was not a fly by night Christian. I would never doubt that I was not "saved". I struggled many years with acceptance, guilt and shame for not being able to do the things that the bible admonishes us to do. I tried to believe in grace and love. I even thought I'd achieved the idea of resting in Jesus and being free in his grace. In the end I stopped reading the bible, praying and going to church. My christian friends fell away, over time I felt less guilty and eventually I began to think, I mean really think about stuff. I can not go back to the Christian I was. I am not sure where this path is leading, but I can clearly see the brainwashing kind of speak that came out of me in this person's comment about it being impossible to be an ex-christian. I don't ever want to sound like that again. I am not very angry anymore, but I am not totally over feeling duped either. Hopefully one day I will really be able to just except life as it is. In the end no one can prove beyond a doubt that God exists and no one can prove that a God of some sort does not exist. I am mostly content with where I am at today; however I no longer wish to be manipulated by brainwashed people who do not know how to think for themselves. I was one of them and I said the very same things. I believed sincerely and I witnessed to many people with sincerity and compassion. I hope that someday Christians will learn to put reason before belief and not blindly accept what the experts say. Question everything, life is to precious to just believe.<BR/><BR/>Sincerely,<BR/><BR/>Bill J.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-27394055798907875222007-05-07T12:03:00.000-05:002007-05-07T12:03:00.000-05:00I was devout and desperate christian for 12 long ...I was devout and desperate christian for 12 long and terrfying years.<BR/>I did activly believe all the rubbish the preachers fed me.<BR/><BR/>Denying me my own experience of having been a christian, is a hatefull and sadistic act.<BR/><BR/>For 12 years I lived on my knees, begging Jesus to forgive me for being a "<A>miserable sinner</A>", and a "<A>worthless and sinfull child of Satan</A>".<BR/>I read the bible very day. <BR/>I prayed almost constantly.<BR/>I wallowed in rightious self loathing and fear.<BR/><BR/>I no longer believe. I am now an EX-christian. So yes it is quite possible to be an EX-christian.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-21496830145376815902007-05-04T02:28:00.000-05:002007-05-04T02:28:00.000-05:00Dang!, Lance & Spirula; I put in all this reading ...Dang!, Lance & Spirula; I put in all this reading over this thread only to find the 3rd & 4th posts from the end (May.03) making the same point I was gonna make.<BR/><BR/>Piss me off; who can I take it out on?...<BR/><BR/>...Rudy[!] wrote:<BR/>"...They were indeed astonished when the first two of the books spelled out 'Tora' and the last two spelled it out backwards! The middle book (Leviticus) spelled out `Yahweh!' It's as if the two end books were pointing to the middle book with the name: `God of the Hebrews!' At least that's what science has found out about God so far..."<BR/><BR/>Oh dear. You know, Rudy, this would actually make something resembling sense if the letters that spelled out the desired phrases were necessary for the paragraphs or chapters to form recognisable text. i.e. without them being where they are, for the rest of the characters in the text to coalesce around, the paragraphs would just look like so much ciphertext waiting to be decrypted. Or if they formed some kind of checksum or hash function, etc. But none of that intimate interoperability, that meshing of form and function, is present in your examples, always assuming they actually exist, of course... How are they different from all those Kennedy/Lincoln coincidences, assuming they are on the up and up? And, if they're not kosher, then that's that --- anyone could have reverse engineered them into the text. And if they'd said, "Da Yahwster just photocopied his celestial butt," is that evidence that that chapter was probably inspired by one of god's drinking buddies? How come these "messages" never contains anything worth hearing? Like that 4 colours are enough to colour any map and not have any two adjacent regions be the same colour? Or that the Earth is a sphere?<BR/><BR/>There's probably already a one- or two-word name for the type of textual "analysis" you described, of which, not being into the occult, I'm unaware.<BR/><BR/>Preston wrote:<BR/>"...you're the one whose first backboned ancestor was a stupid fish..."<BR/><BR/>No, that's not how evolution works. The stupid fish remained fish. Humans' ancestors were the less-stupid fish.eel_shepherdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01658032217061343997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-6790886101842630622007-05-03T15:43:00.000-05:002007-05-03T15:43:00.000-05:00nm156 said: " So an ex-Christian was never really ...nm156 said: " So an ex-Christian was never really a Christian in the first place?<BR/><BR/>Then I propose that an alcoholic-turned-sober was never really an alcoholic to begin with."<BR/><BR/>Or, conversely we here are all perpetual recovering xtians. *snigger*twincatshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16577603757130202687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-68518326277704753412007-05-03T13:25:00.000-05:002007-05-03T13:25:00.000-05:00I see no "sense" in God sending Jesus to die for o...I see no "sense" in God sending Jesus to die for our sins. none what so ever. Should I kill my child because I so love my husband?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-51356616270064938392007-05-03T09:23:00.000-05:002007-05-03T09:23:00.000-05:00But it is impossible to be an ex-Christian/believe...<I>But it is impossible to be an ex-Christian/believer.</I><BR/><BR/>Really? Then what is an apostate? They're mentioned in <B>your</B> Bible.<BR/><BR/>We'll wait.Spirulahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14556681288241092875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-26758617005469313422007-05-03T01:38:00.000-05:002007-05-03T01:38:00.000-05:00OK. I have heard this one before - that if you le...OK. I have heard this one before - that if you leave you were not really a christian - but I can't find the verse being referenced. If Jesus did say this, the it looks like the bible contradicts itself. I know, what a shock!<BR/><BR/>Hebrews 6:4 (NIV) says "It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace."<BR/><BR/>So here it is in black and white. The bible itself says it is possible for people to be real christians - as who else gets to share in the Holy Spirit? - and then to fall away.<BR/><BR/>So if you hear someone say this again. Just point them to Hebrews 6:4 and then show them it is possible to be a real christian and to fall away. Then tell them to leave you alone, since it is impossible for us to be brought back. Just let us go to hell in peace.Lancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07252519861776560123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-75382590761078558522007-05-03T00:28:00.000-05:002007-05-03T00:28:00.000-05:00I found this entertaining, because what you think ...I found this entertaining, because what you think is the truth, is actually a lie.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-49669261073944805662007-05-02T22:47:00.000-05:002007-05-02T22:47:00.000-05:00And your point is? You're not making any sense.By ...And your point is? You're not making any sense.<BR/><BR/>By the way, I love the post before this, about the alcoholic. ROFL!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-38043047290707872472007-05-02T21:11:00.000-05:002007-05-02T21:11:00.000-05:00So an ex-Christian was never really a Christian in...So an ex-Christian was never really a Christian in the first place?<BR/><BR/>Then I propose that an alcoholic-turned-sober was never really an alcoholic to begin with.nm156https://www.blogger.com/profile/17837972660789819861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-71574673727005621592007-05-02T19:30:00.000-05:002007-05-02T19:30:00.000-05:00"in my long life, i've noticed that as soon as peo..."in my long life, i've noticed that as soon as people mention the name "Jesus",in any setting, people who don't believe in Him are immediately uncomfortable or angry or suddenly very,very quiet (obviously not you guys!). and, frankly, i don't believe it has anything to do with the history of the Catholic/Protestant organization (notice i didn't say "Christian church"), which shows you what can happen when men/women take GOD and make of Him what they want. I firmly believe it is because of the effect and the power behind that name. people (such as yourselves) either deliberately ignore it, or get angry and insult it (just as yourselves). Mark 6:3" quote dominique<BR/><BR/><BR/>wow, such tunnel vision. It never ceases to amaze me how easily one convinces oneself of something in order to validate a system of beliefs that their life is built on. <BR/><BR/>It's exactly like a house of card. And while most of the posters on this website do not seem to mind toppling this deck of cards, examining the supports, seeing and digging into what is underneath, and tossing out the ones that do not pass inspection. And then just when they think they've got it, they are willing to adapt when the wrecking ball of new knowledge comes and destroys portions of it all over again.<BR/><BR/>But you Dominique, your house of cards you are unwilling to destroy. As you've said, your house has been around a long time, a true balancing act, each additional card must balance on the ones below it no matter how precarious its new position. You foundations may be weak, but they've never been closely examined. In fact, it may prove much too dangerous to do so. That's a lot of card that could conceivably come tumbling down. <BR/><BR/>It's funny almost that you attribute such "power" to the name of jesus. Those hispanics with the same name must bring must power to bear indeed. <BR/><BR/>The problem with many christians is that the world is so black and white, wrong or right, that their minds are so rigid in their thinking that they are unable to entertain or even imagine that there is any other way to see things. <BR/><BR/>When people become very silent at the mention of jesus, or christ or any related christianity beliefs, have you ever thought possibly that they may be afraid to offend you. Especially if they know you have been a christian, possibly a very devout one all your life. Your beliefs are firm. They do not want to challenge you (few people are out looking for a confrontation in their every day lives, in the supermarket, at a party or a dinner). Perhaps they do not want to risk causing you to question your faith or even destroy it thus causing you possibly unnecessary pain and suffering. They may leave you unchallenged out of respect for your age or position. <BR/><BR/>Or they may become silent because they are not interested in being prostyletized to, knowing from past experiences with christians that if they disagree, agree or show any sign of anything, they may not be able to politely shut up the religious fervor that may decend upon them. <BR/><BR/>Never having been religious myself, and not of the confrontational sort, I find usually silence can be a clear signal that says, "I'm not particularly interested in discussing that, please change the subject"<BR/><BR/>As an atheist who has never been tainted by christianity, most believe in respecting others beliefs and not imposing one's own. That is often why many people will stay silent and not voice their thoughts which may run along the lines of "oh, god, not another one", or "here we go again, what's she going to thank jesus for doing this time? i hope she's not going to try to barrage me with bible/christian crap!" and "maybe if i don't say anything, she'll realize i'm not interested and change the topic. I don't particularly want to offend my aquaintence/new friend/stranger/passerby/etc"<BR/><BR/>Most of the time, when interacting with people who are not close friends, I'm not interested in pushing my non-religious views on others. I don't start raving about things like "God is just a human contruct", "There's no jesus", "religion is just ritualized superstition" or "death cults" and other cults like scientology, mormonism, etc, etc. It's just not something you generally do in polite company. Just as I would not like someone to start going on about their faith and beliefs in christian/mormon/muslim/buhddist/wiccan/scientology/greek/alien abductions, I do not impose my own beliefs about using reason/logic/science/knowledge/psychology, my lack of beliefs, nor my stance on the ridiculous of some religions. <BR/><BR/>In the rare case when I have blurted out something may be construed as offensive or not in taste to someone religious, their response has usually been silence. Do I interpret this as the power of "Richard Dawkins" if I bring up his books? Or the power of the word "superstitious crap"? Or any of the other things that will often only be responded to with silence and/or anger by someone I may have possibly offended?? Of course not! Not unless I was an extremely self-centered, egotistical, narrow-minded fool. To think that "ah ha! I have struck them dumb with the power of the name of Richard Dawkins/Darwin/Jesus Fucking Christ!" I have the power!<BR/><BR/>umm.. is it not more likely I have inadverdantly or purposefully offended the other party? To think otherwise would be a lack of any social sense or empathy for the other person. <BR/><BR/>Try stepping into the shoes of the people you interact it for once. Hard as it may be, try to see and believe things from their perspective and think.. maybe, just maybe you may have said something they may find offensive. You may not know or even be able to guess the reasons or their past which causes them to be offended. But in general I think most people will agree that a response of silence or anger to something you've said is not a positive sign. <BR/><BR/>If you try to reinforce your world view by fitting everything with what you want to believe, then you are at a disadvantage position. With that sort of tunnel vision, you will be ill prepared when you are blindsided one day by what you've turned yourself off from seeing. <BR/><BR/>Ever met someone who you've found so obstinate and set in their ways that you can't for the life of you see where they're coming from or how they arrived at viewing the world they now do? Look in the mirror, that may be you some day. <BR/><BR/>the "Truth" as you call it is subjective and always will be. It will always be your "truth", and not the same truth as others have found. If everyone were to arrive at the same "truth" and there was only one "truth" then this world would be a sad and boring place. <BR/><BR/>Your "truth" (i put it in quotes because i find the entire concept silly, the word is used too often as a euphanism for too many other things) will always need to be re-examined, analyzed, taken apart then put back together, hopefully better than before. Sometimes it should be tossed out whole-heartedly and built completely from scratch, because only then can you learn something new and perhaps discover a new truth. Really there is only one "truth" - and that is that there is more than one "truth" out there and that it will never be exactly the same for everyone.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-86013637910192215982007-05-02T19:22:00.000-05:002007-05-02T19:22:00.000-05:00Hello all, I have been enjoying all the great comm...Hello all, <BR/><BR/>I have been enjoying all the great comments about this post! I don't have much to add, but that tomorrow, May 3, is National Day of Reason, and thought Dominique and Preston might just take the day to perhaps go find their senses they took leave of! As for poor old Rudy, he's too far gone and needs some serious meds. <BR/><BR/>HAPPY DAY OF REASON TO ALL OF YOU HEATHEN FREETHINKERS OUT THERE!!! :)Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17136205623186911924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-64622569664414022392007-05-02T15:58:00.000-05:002007-05-02T15:58:00.000-05:00Hey Kids, I will freely admit that I am not an e...Hey Kids,<BR/> I will freely admit that I am not an exChristian. My subconcious mind would never buy into the bullshit. I tried really really hard, but my inner bullshit detector would not stop. I told people I believed in God/Jesus, but deep down inside I never did.<BR/><BR/> I wish I was an exChristian who was chalked full of Biblical knowledge, but since I have never read a half a page of the fucking <BR/>Bible I learn a lot about it here from people like that Nvrgoingbk chick. That gal knows her shit doesn't she?<BR/><BR/> NGB I loved it when you made the point that the sun doesn't move. It reminds me of a line from one of my favorite songs, Do You Realize, by The Flaming Lips.<BR/><BR/>"You realize the sun don't go down it's just an illusion caused by world spinning round."<BR/><BR/>xraymanBill Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13762907298977812596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-15915371563162883032007-05-02T15:47:00.000-05:002007-05-02T15:47:00.000-05:00@ Carbon Enigma,I'd be very interested in hearing ...@ Carbon Enigma,<BR/><BR/>I'd be very interested in hearing more from you about your mental disorder and its relation to your abandonment of Christianity. My own eyes were opened to the inconsistency of Christianity in part through experiencing mental disorder—not my own, but a very close friend's.<BR/><BR/>Christianity may be vaguely harmful to all, but it is absolutely destructive to people with mental disorders, particularly mood disorders. For the schizophrenic, it provides a foundation and environment in which God really can be believed to speak directly to people<BR/><BR/>For the bipolar or chronic depressive, it provides plenty of opportunities for self-condemnation for thinking dark thoughts and not just taking joy in the Lord, and also a succession of "miraculous healings" as a bipolar transitions from depression to mania, after which point there is of course no need to continue taking the vital medications that it is already often very difficult to get bipolar sufferers to take, ensuring that the bipolar will suffer depression again, only probably hiding it from everyone else the next time, lest they suspect the healing was insensere, and further increasing the likelihood that they will perish from the disorder (bipolar disorder and chronic depression kill one in six of their sufferers, due to the frequent and strong compulsion to commit suicide).<BR/><BR/>If you'd like to chat with me further on this, my email address is available on my blogger profile, which you can see by clicking on my name.Micah Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02255468220431639344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-14321390822622510852007-05-02T14:05:00.000-05:002007-05-02T14:05:00.000-05:00preston, it's me again, one of your new mentors. I...preston, it's me again, one of your new mentors. I have undertaken the weary, thankless job of trying to restore your sanity. Actually, I think you've gone around the bend and aint likely to return.<BR/><BR/>Okay, listen......... Google up to "Isaiah 53 Genuine Prophecy". You will be at one of the essays at Positive Atheism. It is a good read and if you humble yourself and let go of your stubborn pride, it could change your life. Think of it as Viagra for your brain.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-75416587398409853632007-05-02T13:25:00.000-05:002007-05-02T13:25:00.000-05:00Preston said"If you really are some kind of bible ...Preston said"<BR/>If you really are some kind of bible scholar, than i imagine you are as familiar with the prophetic scriptures as you are with the ones that contradict the supposed "nature of God". Because the fulfillments in the bible are outrageous in number. <BR/><BR/>Have you seen the historic places that still stand, thousands of years old? People didn't just write a random story, these things actually happened. It's literally set in stone. <BR/><BR/>When you actually have confronted the evidence with the science hand in hand, then maybe we can discuss theories and your own personal "feelings". <BR/><BR/>Clearly Dominique here, has come to an intelligent decision. It's very rude of you to infer that he's stupid, when you're the one whose first backboned ancestor was a stupid fish. "<BR/> ========<BR/>Preston , there are monuments to Hercules, Zeus , etc. This doesn't mean they existed or are factual. As to those prophecies you refer do the research and you will find out they are not prophecies in any sort. They were manufactured at a later date. There are Messianic prophecies of which Jesus (if he ever existed) never fullfilled.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-32576503402981681882007-05-02T11:34:00.000-05:002007-05-02T11:34:00.000-05:00preston, I am always delighted to hear a xristian ...preston, I am always delighted to hear a xristian hoist his true colors. You call the enemies of your religion "crap", and preston, I think you and your kind were spawned on a stable floor and should be shoveled out with the rest of the shit.<BR/><BR/>So called prophecy is bullshit. Let's take just a few.<BR/><BR/>isaiah 7: the mysterious child in verse 14 will be born in King Ahaz' lifetime, as a sign to him personally. It is not a prophecy of jesus. <BR/><BR/>matthew 2: about jesus being called a nazarene: there is no such prophecy, anywhere.<BR/><BR/>The so called prophecies, all of them, are just bogus interpretations to make them sound like they talk about jesus.<BR/><BR/>Along the same lines, google up to a site called "Why jesus Didn't Qualify". This will help you think. <BR/><BR/>Also try aish.com. There is a feature called "Ask The Rabbi". I have spoken to him several times and he can straighten out your thinking about prophecy, jesus, and any other subject.<BR/><BR/>About archeology: Look, dodo, we do not deny that these places exist. When the bible says "Egypt" we know that there was a kingdom called Egypt. When the bible says "Babylon" we know that there was a city called Babylon. Some pastor, some bible school dropout, has tricked you into thinking that the bible is god's word just because he can point to some old ruins. <BR/><BR/>And by the way.........find the Tower of Babel, and I'll admit you have something.<BR/><BR/>My ancestors were fish, but that beats the hell out of being slopped together by a jew god.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-77573127708264180322007-05-02T10:43:00.000-05:002007-05-02T10:43:00.000-05:00Laura, That was a tremendous post. Thank you. If a...Laura, <BR/><BR/>That was a tremendous post. Thank you. <BR/><BR/>If at all possible, could you please contact me directly? You can do so by <A HREF="http://exchristian.net/message.php" REL="nofollow">clicking here.</A>Dave Van Allenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08288914445803411893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-35583280488881990692007-05-02T10:16:00.000-05:002007-05-02T10:16:00.000-05:00Rudy,Dominique and preston tried their best, but w...Rudy,<BR/><BR/>Dominique and preston tried their best, but when it comes to talking crap, you're the champ!<BR/><BR/>So, you like bible puzzles and word games, do you? <BR/><BR/>Try this fun game - see if you can match all the verses in the gospels that claim to be direct quotes of prophesies from the Old Testament with the actual Old Testament verses themselves.<BR/><BR/>Just one important rule to remember - unlike the gospel writers, you're not allowed to cut words out, change them or add anything!<BR/><BR/>Good luck!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-61746988069626319742007-05-02T09:48:00.000-05:002007-05-02T09:48:00.000-05:00I have an idea, if Christians believe that their f...I have an idea, if Christians believe that their faith is so strong, they should test it. Mine was obviously tested with the bible and probably other things, such as my mental disorder. I am no longer a christian, and since leaving christianity, I have become a firm supporter of logical thinking. I find Blind Faith to be stupid and dangerous. And to also be an enemy of scientific progress, just look at the current evolution vs creationism/ID battle.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-9943053164981321792007-05-02T07:49:00.000-05:002007-05-02T07:49:00.000-05:00Dom,I thought that I had a personal relationship w...Dom,<BR/><BR/>I thought that I had a personal relationship with jesus. I prayed to him and I even thought that he answered my prayers. I thought he spoke to me in a still and small voice. Then when my life was turned upside-down, I turned to him for strength. I prayed that he would give me that peace in my heart and mind that he spoke of in the bible. I prayed he would guide me and my actions could bring about abundant joy and peace. And I waited...and prayed...waited...prayedsome more.<BR/><BR/>Then decades later I found myself in turmoil over a situation that never got better after asking jesus for help. What I mean to say is I was looking at insanity or worse. Emotional trama that never goes away will eventually drive a person mad if not dealt with properly. I believed The proper way was to turn to christ. When my pain did not cease and only got worse and worse even after years of prayer, did I finally relize that jesus couldn't help,god couldn't help because They either don't exist or they don't give a rats ass about me. For a while I thought it was the latter of the two. It made me want to please him even more. But it still didn't help me heal my pain, it made me feel even more worthless. So eventually after getting profesional help I was able to make a profound small step to being free of a burden that wasn't even mine. I did it with a little help from a rational careing real live person who had no faith in god. That still small voice is still there, I call him my concious.<BR/><BR/>So, Dom, tell me why did god ignore me? If it was because he was testing me then, being all knowing, he knew I would fail. He also knew it would cause me to turn away from him. Thus sending me to my fiery fate of hell. Is that it? He wanted me to go to hell? The other alturnative was me going insane, and when I say insane,I mean literally out of my mind in an institution and/or suicide.<BR/>If god exists then these were the only options. So that is why it made more sense to me that the god of the bible didn't exist.<BR/><BR/>That is how it is possible to be an exchristian.TheJaytheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05113302693328504558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-44022417177722899822007-05-02T07:34:00.000-05:002007-05-02T07:34:00.000-05:00Dominique,I spent 36 years in a fundamental, bible...Dominique,<BR/><BR/>I spent 36 years in a fundamental, bible-believing, evangelical christian group. It was very difficult to face the truth of my life, of how much time I wasted. I left BECAUSE I 'studied to show myself approved". I sought, I prayed, I wrestled with the 'truth" of the word. I thought that, just like you stated, that I was never really saved in the first place. I mean, I was only 5 years old when I made a public confirmation of my faith and was baptized in the baptist church. I tried again. I prayed and accepted Jesus...again. I sought him and suppressed my doubt. I loved God and the church. I gave my life to it. My husband was a music minister for years, we were leaders in the church. We hosted and taught, many bible studies. Our then young children knew their bible verses. They knew Jesus loved them and they were homeschooled to limit worldly anti-christian influence. I continued to pray for and seek truth. I prayed that I would not be afraid of any truth, but that God would reveal truth to me. I believed that any doubts or questions I had, if they were asked humbly and honestly, could be handled by God. I read a book by "Bob George" about grace that changed my life in christianity for awhile. I believed I was covered by the blood of Christ and therefore completely innocent in the sight of the Lord. That accepting Jesus brought you back to the garden of eden, brought you back to the choice that Adam and Eve were faced with. I thought that was the epitomy of Christ's love for us. He paid the high cost to allow us to go back to innocence. That's the only way into Heaven, complete innocence. God cannot allow any sin into his perfect world. <BR/><BR/>Then 9/11 occured. These people that attacked thousands of innocent people, acted as if they lived in the Old Testament. They killed for god! They acted like the "chosen people" who went into a city and obliterated it in God's name. They (in their minds) fight a holy war. I revisited the Old Testament again. I read to remind myself that my God was different from this horrible god of the terrorists. Sadly, he wasn't different. Who is this God, really, who demands perfection from his imperfect creation? Who is this God who ordered whole cities, including women and children to be slaughtered to keep his chosen people pure? Why is my God any different from that of the terrorists that I abhore and fear? Why would I want to serve a God so cruel who demands the shedding and death of innocent beings to appease his wrath? Who is this god who plays with satan to tease Job and kill off all his family? (but he gave him another family, isn't that nice?!) What about poor Abraham who thought he had to give up his only son. He was willing to kill his own son in the name of this fearsome god. (ooohhh, but god gave him a clean, spotless, white ram to slaughter in his place...what a loving thing to do!) I decided that even if it meant giving up heaven, I could not serve this god any longer. He is cruel and illogical, like a mean-spirited spoiled brat. My husband came around, and we started to un-teach our children. We lost most of our old christian friends - they didn't like the questioning. We, of course, left the church and it's tenants and set out on our own. It's lonely at times, my extended family are all very christian still. One of my nephews is working on his doctrite in theology and one of my brother-in-law's works as a church planter/consultant for a evangelical christian denomination. <BR/><BR/>I'm not asking you to believe as I do. I've learned that there are no facts that will change your mind. You can always believe that you can't expect to fully understand god's ways. "The wisdom of this world is foolishness with god". That's the pat answer to everything in christianity that doesn't make sense. I'm asking that you not assume that you understand ME. This life I have chosen now was not chosen lightly. It was a long, difficult process. If I could, I would remain a christian. I was popular and respected in my circle. But, I can't live a lie. I know all the words, but I can't speak them with a straight face anymore! <BR/>If truly, I was never a "called Christian", well, that's even crueler. I believed the bible. I believed that "for god so loved the world.... that whosoever believeth on him shall not perish, but have everlasting life".... I believed that! I lived that, I taught that. I called upon the name of the lord "whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved". I guess I'm the Esau of the family. (god loved jacob, hated esau...) <BR/><BR/>I challenge you to seek Truth. If god is truth, there is no reason to fear seeking it. Open your mind to the truth of god. Seek it with all your heart. "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth". <BR/><BR/>I didn't intend to write this much. I could go on and on and bore you even more with my life's details, but I'll stop here. <BR/><BR/>Give truth a chance.<BR/><BR/>LauraLaurahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07745825365138632980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-74879864774576534132007-05-02T07:24:00.000-05:002007-05-02T07:24:00.000-05:00There are no gods. Get over it and get a life.Jim ...There are no gods. Get over it and get a life.<BR/><BR/>Jim EarlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3424478.post-25146738996531829782007-05-02T05:54:00.001-05:002007-05-02T05:54:00.001-05:00You start from a supposition that Jesus was an act...You start from a supposition that Jesus was an actual historical person, that there is a god and that the book called the bible is a book of fact. We don't start from that supposition, therefore, don't follow your path.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com