Sunday, November 30, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

Pray for me. Will you?

Hi,

It's not easy for an agnostic/apostate to live with Christians. Thanksgiving day all my believing relatives (wife, brother, sister-in-law, son, daughter-in-law, two grandkids, plus my deist sister, were getting ready to sit at the table for a big feast. Most were still standing except me and my 16 year-old, 6' 2", grandson. His mother said, "Stand up Nathan." He didn't (I think he wanted to remain sitting like grandpa). She again said, Nathan, stand up!" So, he slowly obeyed his mother.

That just bugs me something awful. What bodily position is necessary to talk to an invisible spirit (if there are spirits)? While they pretend to pray, grandpa sits and looks at each one and feel sorry for most of them, but not my daughter-in-law. My Deist sister goes along with it and bows her head and closes her eyes, because she said, "I don't want to make waves." I think I will NEVER get used to all this. Pray for me. Will you? Ha ha.

William F Henness [wildbillh@winco.net]

My input

Feel free to express myself fully, eh? Alright.

Doing a random search on sex and religion, I stumbled upon this website. Wow. The thing that caught my attention was that you made it sound like, oral, and anal sex, or any sex basically that did not lead to pregnancy, was a supposed sin? That it shouldn't be enjoyed by religious people. (Or something like that. I didn't take time to read all of the shit.) Let me assure that that is pretty much bull. Jesus created that as a reward for a boy and girl who love each other and are commited to each other. As well as other types of sexual gratification. You don't have to be an "ex-christian" to enjoy these things. If you enjoy it, you enjoy it. Sex, nomatter what religion, is one of the most self expressive, life-affirming acts we as humans can participate in. Created especcially for us.

Among other things, this website is sickening. If you want to be a so-called, "ex-christian" go right ahead. It's not my soul. But for you to denounce the Christian faith and make jokes? (The "blah blah blah" Bible was a nice touch. Oh yes, and the Calvin - Jesus fish was a good idea too! Man, that was original!) Think about this. We have our Christian sites that talk about faith and what we choose to believe. But do we dis you guys? No. In our "bullshit" religion we pray for the "ex-christians".

And the article "A Plea to True Christians", yes, there are commandments that were written as sort of guidelines. And it is a point in our religion to try to follow them as much as possible. But on top of being Christians, we are also human. If we were born perfect, we wouldn't need a God. He made us so that we could have a free will. Would you rather be a puppet? Another main point in the Christian religion in Jesus' forgiveness and mercy. He's not an old man, sitting, watching us, just waiting for us to make a mistake so he can zap us down! He's so completely the opposite it's not funny.

It also states in the Bible that once you know Him, you cannot be seperated from him. So good-luck to all you, "ex-christians"!

You have us, and our Lord completely wrong. May God show his mercy on you.

Merri

Saturday, November 29, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

Hey!

Really like what you've done here! Quite an exhaustive site . . . okay, enough of the BS. I was wondering if you wouldn't mind linking my site on yours -- whereever you deem appropriate (just not under the nude pictures section, please! LOL!). I will do the same for yours on my next web-update.

Ex-Pentecostals.org (appropriately found at http://ex-pentecostals.org -- imagine that!) is a website networking people leaving the insanity of Pentecostalism and its cousin, that circus called the Charismatic "movement." About half of us have ascended to agnosticism/atheism -- but we don't discriminate . . . we just tell truth about the bizarre nature of our former faith, and try to help those still "bound" up in it -- out.

Check us out, and link us if you will. Thanks in advance.

Ciao for now!

Jay Ketcherside
ex-pentecostals.org

Friday, November 28, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

Hello Webmaster

I love your site; it's been very helpful to me in trying to leave christianity. I say trying to, because it's very difficult. My main fear is that I'm making a huge mistake. It is causing a huge deal of cognative dissonance - my mind doesn't believe a word of it but my emotions are harder to convince. You can read my 'testimony' under your forums page. It is called Still trying to Leave.

The thing I have a huge problem with is speaking in tongues. Everything else from Christianity I can see as a lie, or sometimes as a story, along the same lines as Father Christmas, and Fairies. But why can I still speak in tongues?

I would love to know if you know of any scientific explanation for what speaking in tongues really is. It would help me out a great deal; at the moment it's the only thing standing between me and some kind of closure on all this.

Thanks!

Ruth

Thursday, November 27, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

Moses Bet

I have a bet for any christian who comes accross this page;

Firstly I should explain something; to you, Moses is a freer of slaves. To me, Moses is a cross between Hitler and Izaac from 'Children of the Corn'.

Anyway, here's the bet; read everything in the Bible that Moses does between comeing down from Mount Sinai to the time the Hebrews reach Jerusalem.

I refer, of course, to such things as the genocidal slaughter of entire villages, including men, women, boys, even livestock. The "Lucy ones", however, were the females "that have not known a man by sleeping with him", the virgins, the little girls, who, after watching their whole family and village be slaughtered, were then kidnaped and used as sex slaves. And the slaves he freed? he killed most of 'em afew days later for breaking rules they weren't even informed of yet.

So the bet is, if you can read all that, and then explain, convincingly, what makes Jehovah good and Hitler evil, I'll give you $5.00!

Deamond

Black Heathen

No need for a long story.I just observed that no one could boast being any better off than the next Church,Temple,Mosque or Synagogue. It was apparent that we are all just spinning our wheels in intellectual dishonesty.

Combine this with the fast that the Happiest people ive ever seen are Children before the God disease takes root. It was plain to see we try too hard to find things that are not lost.

I am from Dayton Ohio in the US. I was born into Christianity and left when I was 19. I have been involved with Muslim, Christian, Nubian, Islamic, and Hebrew "churches". Now I consider myself in the Satanist, Freethinker, Agnostic, and Taoist camp. I didn't have a choice about becoming a Christian, and I would say that a man can never stay true to a thing once he has fathomed it's depths.

Mike

Wednesday, November 26, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

Thanks for the info on Horatio Spafford

Dave,

Thanks for the info on Horatio Spafford. I found your website very informational...Your intellectual ability really is quite amazing. I was in an accident almost 5 yrs ago...I lost both arms, and broke my back in 3 spots...I spend most of my time in a wheelchair. I had 5 young children, a 13 day old baby, a 1yr old, a 2 yr old, and a 5 and 7 yr old. When I came out of the drug-induced coma after 8 days...I begged for God to take me home...Nothing was 'enough' to make me want to live a life w/out arms, or bound to a wheelchair. I had given my life to God as a 12 yr old...it was a sincere conversion experience...just like you personally describe...I lived, mostly out of ignorance...a lukewarm to cold Christian existence. Like you, I had the baptism of the holy spirit nightmare...I was 14, and spent hrs kneeling on a cold concrete floor, resting my face on a metal folding chair...that rivaled the floor's frigid temperature. Crying and pleading with God for the Holy Spirit...I wanted everything that God had for me. I can relate also to many of the other things you relate to in your anti-testimony...Affairs by pastors, church splits, and a rash of political crap in the name of God...I too, struggled with sexuality. I got 2 different girlfriends pregnant...within 1 yr. I finally got married...just so that I wouldn't struggle with the guilt anymore.Out of room, I'd luv 2 email you

Wednesday, November 19, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

10 dollar paypal

Hey, I borrowed your "10 dollar paypal" idea, and wrote this post on a christian apologetic message board.

"Jesus said, that 'any who claim to love me will do as I say'. Those who claim to love me but do not keep my teachings are liars, and the truth is not in them. The Bible also says that liars and lukewarm will NOT inheiret the kingdom of heaven, God will SPEW them out of his site on judgement day...so you better LISTEN UP.

Jesus said, give FREELY to ANYONE who ASKS. If someone demands your cloak, give him your tunic also.

Here is my simple request. Send me $150 dollars. If you do not, you are not giving freely to I who am asking. You are therefore, by letter of the Bible, going to hell if you don't comply.

Let's see how many of you ACTUALLY believe the Bible."


Funny thing is, one guy said he would send me $150 dollars, but if I cashed it, God would put a curse on me. Supposedly, the check is already in the mail.

Here's his response:
"I want to make myself clear, you send me your mailing address I will send you a check, but I hope you are clear on one thing if you cash the check then you better be prepared for whatwill happen to you, you are bringing upon yourself curse and you will loose much more than $150 you are trying to extort from me. I will give you the money because I know God is going to judge you, and I can't wait and see how, you will beg me one day to take back the $150 to relieve your judgment, and I may refuse. So send by e-mail your mailing address if you are prepared. "

Do you think this guy is a lunitic? I should get a PO Box! This could be a great way to make money! Thanks!

Aaron

What would you say?

Hi I am doing a report for my college english class and had a question for you guys. If someone was preaching at you or telling you that pornography was a sin how would you try or what would you say to convince them that it wasn't.

If you would reply it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

James

emailaddress: faith_preacher1@yahoo.com

Friday, November 14, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

Dear Christian(Freedom From Religion Foundation)

Dear Christian:

I have heard the message of salvation many times: we are all sinners, and we can have forgiveness and eternal life if we confess and accept Jesus as Savior and Lord. I have heard that there can be no morality outside of God's laws, and that no one can be truly good without being transformed by the Spirit. I have also heard that there is no peace, love, joy, or meaning without Christ. Christians feel that unbelievers are empty slaves to carnality and selfish pride, unable to grasp truth, and must humble themselves before God's plan. I have heard that the bible contains the "inspired word of God" --a message of ultimate importance -- and that may scholars claim to have proven its uniqueness and reliability. Some Christians say that they have verified the truth by personal experience.

This is all very interesting. I want the best for my life. If there is an eternal paradise, I would hate to miss it: and I definitely would not want to roast in a literal hell. It would be unwise to ignore something like a god, especially one who takes interest in my life. I would ask a thousand questions of an all-knowing mind.

You and I breathe the air of the same planet, and truth should be the same for us both. The basic question which should be asked about any religion is: is it TRUE? If the basic claims of theism, sin, miracles, and revelation are true, then maybe your "good news" is truly good.

However, I am an unbeliever. It's not that I particularly want to doubt: it's just that I have no choice. I have examined your claims and I am not convinced that they are true. I may even wish them to be true (or I may not) -- but I am not so naive to think that something can be true or false just because I desire it. There must be some reason, beyond wishful thinking.

I'm sure you agree. You certainly doubt that thunder is caused by the anger of Zeus, or that Allah is the one true god. Like myself, you see them as myths created to explain the unknown, to give life some kind of meaning, to enhance culture, or to empower the ruling caste. They are born in human imagination, and can be explained without reference to a supernatural world.

There are many gods which Christians reject. I just believe in one less god than you do. The reasons that you might give for your atheism toward the Roman gods are likely the same reasons I would give for not believing in Jesus.
You and I are alike. We have minds which perceive, analyze, integrate, and react. Our only difference in this regard is that you have judged (or assumed) the premises of your religion to be factual, while I have not. You would not want to commit yourself to an idea of which your were not convinced, would you?

You are welcome to try to convince me that Christianity is true, but you should know that I am not going to "just believe" by faith. I will demand substantiation. If you say that the bible is reliable, I will ask you to prove it. I may ask why the bible contains so many errors and contradictions. If you are not familiar with the finding of critical bible scholars with divers points of view, I will view your conclusions with suspicion.
Neither will I believe because millions of other do. Truth is not determined by vote. If it were, the earth would still be flat.

I will ask if your conclusions are logical. If you want me to consider your beliefs, then be ready to tackle question like these.

* Is there a higher judge of truth than reason?

* After centuries of bitter religious fighting, why is your mind suddenly blessed with the true way of thinking?

* What is morality, and is it possible without a deity?

* Is the violent history of the Church consistent with a message of love?

* What is a contradiction, and what would the bible have to say in order to be discrepant?

* Why did your god create evil? (Isaiah 45:7)

* Is there anything wrong with skepticism?

* Why should inner religious experience point to anything outside the mind?

* Historians must assume natural regularity over time, so how can the bible be completely historical when it contains miracles, which violate nature?

* What is a god, exactly, and why do you think one exists?

What could be said about Christianity which, if true, would make it false? If you can't answer that question, then your conclusions may be based on something other than honesty. You can't expect me to respectfully listen to you if you are close to a full, honest inquiry -- if you are unwilling to allow, theoretically, that you might be wrong. I am open minded and willing to change my position, if warranted, Can you also be fair enough to follow the facts, wherever they lead?

Many unbelievers have carefully considered these questions, perhaps even more deeply than you have. And some of us were at one time just as religious as you are now. After honest examination, I am convinced that the bible is primitive mythology, that there is no evidence for a god, that Christians are not more moral or tolerant than atheists, and that religion has caused more harm than good. Why should my conclusions be less valid than yours?

You feel that the complexity of life demands a designer: but the mind of such a creature would be at least as complex as the rest of nature, requiring a designer itself, wouldn't it? If everything needs a cause, then there can be no first cause: and if you nonetheless assert a First Cause, I will ask how you know (assume) that there can be an uncaused cause. If a deity can be thought eternal, so can the universe. God-belief does not answer any questions: it just replaces a mystery with another mystery: if god made everything, who made god?

If the mind of a god is the measure for morality, then there is now way to measure if god's actions are "good." The murderous, sexist, intolerant activities of the biblical deity and the presence of chaos, ugliness and pain in the universe portray your "supreme" god as supremely immoral, by my standards. I could invent a nicer god than that, and so could you.

If you have new concrete evidences or rational arguments, them I will be glad to hear them. But please don't waste my time preaching the same old sermons I have been hearing for years.

I am quite happy with life. I have purpose and peace of mind--I prefer goodwill over repentance. I don't want to die, but I accept death as natural. I sense no need to worship, confess, or apologize to anyone. I feel no guilt, and therefore no desire to be "saved" from anything: sin is a primitive idea, and salvation is religion's offer to solve a problem of its own making.

I happily admit I am a skeptic: and I am proud of the way I think. Although humans are not perfect, I respect the human mind and I am optimistic about our abilities to continue to solve life's problems with reason and kindness.

I don't claim to have all the answers; but if you want me to hear your message then I will ask you to listen to mine. There is a wealth of scholarly and informative freethought material on the bible. Jesus, morality, freethought heritage, atheism agnosticism, and rationality.

Joseph Kazmar

Friday, November 07, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

In Desperate Need of Biblical Guidance

I am at what seems to be a very pivotal point in my walk with Christ and I am in desparate need of some serious Biblical guidance.

I can't seem to get good answers to my questions from my churchfellows or clergy and I was hoping to find some insight on the internet.

My question is concerning the book of Judges chapter 19. I know that there is a profound message buried deep within God's Holy Word in this chapter and I can't quite figure it out. I know for a fact that once I figure this one out, my eternal salvation will be forever sealed.

Once you offer your insights into this chapter, could someone please tell me what the tribes/churches did with the pieces once they got them? Please consider that my eternal soul is on the line here.

Thank You and may God bless You.


City: Warren

State: Ohio

Country: U.S.A.

Why I joined: To learn how to escape from reality

Why I left: I haven't yet. I'm still looking for help in this and that's why I submitted the request.

Fweethawt

Thursday, November 06, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

STOP TALKING ABOUT HELL AND SATAN!

I have something to say to everyone who has posted a message here. Christains - STOP TALKING ABOUT HELL AND SATAN! I'm a christian and I don't talk about hell or satan, considering not even the bible fully supports either of these concepts. Its people like you that turn people off to christianity. I also do not bash other religions - if in the end they inspire people to do good unselfishly, I believe that they have been saved through jesus christ. As for the non-Christians - quit being so smug.

I honestly admit that the bible has translation errors, little editorial changes made by nutcases and has been interpreted in evil ways by mislead people. HOWEVER - the final message remains the same. Jesus Christ lived and died for all of us. God loves us all, even those of us that do horribly wrong things (or at least more wrong than others). Please stop being so smug about not believing in the one who loves you so much. There are in fact many of us who prefer having hope rather than no hope at all. God bless all of you forever.

Anomi

Wednesday, November 05, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

How I changed

It saddens me to see how almost all of the postings and testimonies come from people that grew up in one of those crappy fundamentalists churches that condemn every thing we do....and I have to agree with that guys...I hate it as well!! we have free will to do whatever we want....however God gave us that morality when he created us...otherwhise how can you say what's good and what's not good???

I have read tons of sites, and stuff about how some people researched for flaws in the bible...and I have to say that some arguements are quite good...however, not flawless, some of the bibliographical references are wrong, some places and dates are really wrong as well....I'm still a believer....and nothing came out from church, it came out from a personal commitment I made with God and no single person obliged me to do it....and YES THINGS CHANGED, and still are....and nothing you can tell me will make me change my mind specially after witnessing miracles in my life....and some SUPER NATURAL Natural-laws defying miracles as well.....something that evolution or atheism will never be able to explain .....

You can keep doing your efforts to destroy religion, and I even agree with you in doing it so...

But God...HAHA.....good luck trying to destroy all the evidence that surrounds us...

Noe

City: Guadalajara

State: Jalisco

Country: Mexico

Became a Christian: 15

Ceased being a Christian: I'm still Christian and forever will be

Labels before: Baptist

Labels now: God follower....hate religions and dogmas

Tuesday, November 04, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

Some observations

There are a few things that I have found interesting since discovering this site. I notice the same circular arguments and opinions that never conclude anything significant at all. I will try to point out some of the inconsistencies I have seen. Both for the benefit of the non-believer (so you all can come up with some new arguments)and also for believers who sometimes read this site and question their own faith.

1. A lot of people argue that God cannot be a just God as the Bible states because He sends people to Hell. There are some problems with this statement. Firstly most of us would agree that justice today cannot be served without some sort of punishment or loss of privilege. What if judges in murder trails simply said “We know you killed someone but it just isn’t fair to send you to prison so you can't continue to enjoy the rights and privileges of others.” That wouldn’t be justice at all. In fact it would be completely unjust. Also Heaven can be described as the inheritance of God. What right do you have to a fathers inheritance if you deny His existence, curse His name, mock Him, ignore His requests and chastise His other children. Simply you have no right to His inheritance. Others say that He sends people to Hell who have never heard of Christ. This is also false. Paul very clearly addressed this in Romans. “For when Gentiles who do not have the law do instinctively the th
ings of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a Law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written on their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.” Rom. 2:14-16

2. I see most peoples opinions here to be very similar. Everyone who has come up with the revelation that the Bible is not true or that Christianity is false is only falling victim to one of Satan’s greatest lies, “You don’t need God, you can do better without God, and you can be smarter than God.” Everyone thinks they are so great. I used to until I found Christ and now I realize that I have been a sinner from the time I was young and I was in need of a savior to bridge the gap that exists between a human filled with sin and A God that is flawless. Do you really think that after two thousand years of Christianity that you alone have figured out that fatal flaw in the Bible or in Christianity. Not likely. The truth is if it could have been proved wrong it would have happened many years ago. Don’t think that you are that much better than others. Realistically very few people really make a difference in this world all others will simply die and be forgotten. At least when I
die I will be rewarded for my faith.
“Professing to be wise they became fools.” Rom. 1:22


3. The argument that Christians are hypocritical or that bad Christians made you into a non-believer is really a non-issue. Everyone jumps up and down when a Catholic priest is found to have molested some children or a self proclaimed profit of God shoots people in a public square, but the fact is that no matter what you call yourself, Priest or sinner, all will be judged. So the actions of individual does not effect the judgement of God. If the Bible says it is wrong and is sinful then all who do it must be punished. It is that simple. Furthermore no group has done more for other people in the world than Christians. No one has helped more starving children or homeless people or abused spouses than Christians. It is a simple fact, think about that the next time you tell someone that Christianity is wrong and hurts more people than it helps.

Lastly I just want to say that if we all were to follow Christian values, we would have no internal conflicts in this country. When asked what the greatest commandment was Jesus replied, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest commandment. The second is like it, you shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Matt. 22:37-39. If only we could all do this very simple thing. You see God does not ask that much of us. The most important thing is to have faith. I know that this won’t change most of your minds about anything and you will probably just come up with some new angle to misinterpret the word of God, but I wanted to let you all know that without Christ I would not still be married, and without Christ I would lack direction, and without Christ I would still be stuck in circular logic like most of you. Many saw Christ perform miracles in the street and yet did not believe, so it is unrealistic t
o expect you all to believe. I simply ask to consider all things and not make a rash decision when leaving the body of Christ, for you have everything to lose, the stakes could not be higher.

With love and commitment in Christ Jesus,

Phillip Brunnengraeber

Monday, November 03, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

The Secret in the Bible

Hello Webmaster,

One of our authors, Tony Bushby is about to release his second book "The Secret in the Bible".

www.thesecret.thebiblefraud.com

His first book "The Bible Fraud" has been a huge success and is still in strong demand.

www.thebiblefraud.com

Both works have such an extensive bibliography that a dedicated researcher would die for (well, almost!)

The info would be useful to all your readers.

Cheers,

Greg

Sunday, November 02, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

Some disturbing quotes

I am a college student currently attending a Christian University (I'm transferring out at the end of the year) and my Mass Media and Society class was discussing the role of violence in the media and if it has a negative affect on people. On student said that ironically violence could motivate positive aggression:

"When I watch Top Gun, I want to fly airplanes and drop bombs on people. That's positive aggression."

I didn't exactly see the correlation between "positive" and "drop bombs on people", but then again, he was a Christian and I am not.

I also overhead my neighbor say this the other day:

"Whenever I see an animal, I want to shoot and kill it."


Josh

MI, USA

Became a Christian: 4

Ceased being a Christian: 20

Labels before: Church of the Nazarene, fundamentalist

Labels now: Agnostic, Secular Humanist

Why I joined: I was young and it seemed the correct thing to do

Why I left: Couldn't believe anymore