Wednesday, February 26, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

blessings to you brother

Wasnt sure if you recieved my last post

I have browesed your websight and its stating of the many Reformers, RC fathers and theyer intolerance and bickering and backbiting over docrins and charactor, it truely shows the flaw in the human race, but in all fairness Dave, I would like you to line it up with the people with a world view without Christ, Hitler, Nero, cearsars, Ivan the terrible, Nicolae Ceausescu, the Roman Empire and its violence against the christians, The so called Salem witch trials, Comunist China and the martyrs that come from there in the name of Christ thousands upon thousands die each year in the name of Christ all over the world, what about the Columbine high school girl that got shot by the young boy Harris as he asked if she was a christian, her answer cost her her life, I can go on and on much much more than you can ever com up with, why because heaven and hell are real God and satan are real, and we fight battles not against flesh and blood, but against powers and rulers of darkness, in which you were not strong enough because you turned to yourself instead of turning to God, a high school girl Dave stood strong in the face of adversity with her God, you on the other hand, I hate to be so harsh, but you faced the enemy and you have failed which we all will, if we stand not in the power of the glorious God of heaven, I would say this life is good now because you are not in the battle for mankind anymore, for me I will remain as in the book of timothy a soldier of Christ. When you study be neutral and your eyes will be opened again the bad in the world far outweigh the bad in the church of the First born, oh yeh you forgot to mention the two great apostles Paul and Mark had a heated dispute and parted ways.

blessings to you brother, the battle is waiting, be a man of God

john

Saturday, February 15, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

your website

I have browesed your websight and its stating of the many Reformers, RC fathers and theyer intolerance and bickering and backbiting over docrins and charactor, it truely shows the flaw in the human race, but in all fairness Dave, I would like you to line it up with the people with a world view without Christ, Hitler, Nero, cearsars, Ivan the terrible, Nicolae Ceausescu, the Roman Empire and its violence against the christians, The so called Salem witch trials, Comunist China and the martyrs that come from there in the name of Christ thousands upon thousands die each year in the name of Christ all over the world, what about the Columbine high school girl that got shot by the young boy Harris as he asked if she was a christian, her answer cost her her life, I can go on and on much much more than you can ever com up with, why because heaven and hell are real God and satan are real, and we fight battles not against flesh and blood, but against powers and rulers of da rkness, in which you were not strong enough because you turned to yourself instead of turning to God, a high school girl Dave stood strong in the face of adversity with her God, you on the other hand, I hate to be so harsh, but you faced the enemy and you have failed which we all will, if we stand not in the power of the glorious God of heaven, I would say this life is good now because you are not in the battle for mankind anymore, for me I will remain as in the book of timothy a soldier of Christ. When you study be neutral and your eyes will be opened again the bad in the world far outweigh the bad in the church of the First born, oh yeh you forgot to mention the two great apostles Paul and Mark had a heated dispute and parted ways.



blessings to you brother, the battle is waiting, be a man of God

john



Tuesday, February 11, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

Mad

I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to put your page together. I am 20 years old and come from a thoroughly Christian family.Only recently have I contemplated the "faith" that I was indoctrinated with since birth. I am truly amazed at the immensity of this Christian scam. They have managed to fool those in charge and even those I love. The truth will truly set you free.

Mad

Sunday, February 09, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

I'm an ex-christian too

Hey. I had the luck of stumbling upon your blog on blogger's link box. I haven't read much or your page. I just want to give you some positive feedback for the concept of your page because I'm an ex-Christian too. I think religion is shit but it's necessary to keep all of our mindless people under control, so they won't have to come up with their own way of living. Religion gives them a program to just fall into. Just let them be happy thinking I'm going to hell. I'd much rather go to hell with people like my mom than go with the bigheaded god.

anyhow, good.

thanks,

Holly

Saturday, February 08, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

Good afternoon Dave, You wrote today:

Deciding right from wrong is not an easy task, and although books like the Bible do offer some general guidelines and wisdom in some areas, to say that any of these books are the last word on morality is too simplistic. Morality, like every other aspect of human society, will continue to develop and change as time goes on just like every other aspect of reasoning and thought.


Christianity might be more compelling if adopting its lifestyle imparted your respect for people and genuine concern for their well being. It’s ironic and more sad than humorous. I mean quite sincerely that I find these character traits more natural in your personality than I do in my own. As a Christian that is a humbling observation to accept – but no less true. As I have said before insights are always true. Whether they are yours, mine or Scriptural is irrelevant.

The Hebrew/Christian Scripture set was written over a period of at least 1600 years, and two millennia have passed since the last author died. My entire belief system has shifted in less than a decade, twice. With hind sight it’s pretty easy to see how and why my perspective has changed. The true nature of things has of course remained constant my entire life. Reality was in 1800 BC as it is now in 2003 AD, and will remain completely intact long after my DNA performs its last biochemical reaction. Human beings wrote every book of the Bible and I am quite confident that their points of view were as dynamic as my own, so why would I seek after their literal understanding of morality? What I do hold onto are the insights that compelled these men to share their inspiration with me. Separating insight from inspiration from belief is a normal human brain function. Recognizing whether insight is from the mind of God requires knowing him first. How does that work?

You have offered a tremendous opportunity for people to get to know you, and I am glad I took the time to do so. Your website reflects attributes of your personality and character, but what you write yourself is distinctly who you are as an individual. When I read the material here I learn what others think and believe. Inferable aspects of your character are expressed indirectly through what you choose to publish while the baseline to accurately make such assessments is available only from what you choose to directly express yourself. I have no difficulty separating in my mind whose thoughts are whose, but if I did not first know you as a unique person, all I could successfully do is separate my thinking from the influence of others. You on the other hand have consciously chosen to provide any reader who cares to receive it direct insight into you the individual. A god who is there could easily do the same.

With a true revelation of yourself as a basis anyone with the tenacity to do so could effortlessly identify your thoughts precisely among the hundreds of separate documents that are recorded here, even if every name, email address and personal reference were removed. With as little as I have provided these past few months, you could identify me specifically whether or not I signed my name. With a little more tenacity you could read from anyone who took my perspective seriously and know with confidence whether my thoughts inspired their beliefs. An insight from God would be inspirational much like that.

True things do not always reflect the fullness of reality. Here I am as ignorant as the next man. Of relevance is whether my awareness of God is true like my awareness of you because Scripture is clearly as real as this website. Debating worldview is like a blind man trying to persuade a sighted man that color is a function of imagination. From one perspective color is truly a mere creation of the mind. Likewise my own theism is not valuable to anyone because awareness to one man is point of view to another. My way of thinking is beneficial so I offer that as an insight.

It is a great pleasure getting to know you.

Respectfully,

David Hooten

(This is a personal letter. Publish it at your discretion, but consider that I wrote this to you.)

    I understand that you wrote it to me David, but you wrote it to me in regards to this site. Therefore your observations are relevant to this site, so I post them so as to be holistic. I am sure you understand.

    Thank you for your insights.

    Dave VanAllen

Monday, February 03, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

standard of morality?

Hello,

I must say you've done a nice job with your website, though I disagree with your conclusion.

I'd like to ask you a question I've been kicking around in my own head for a while. Simply put, on what do you base your standard of morality?

Thanks,
Josh




The Short Answer:

Dan Barker's Pages

Dave the WebMaster of ExChristian.Net




Dave,

I don't claim to know it all, I am seeking to understand myself and the world around me in an intellectually honest way. I suppose that makes me a "freethinker", unless part of the definition of "freethinker" is belief that God does not exist.

Webster's Dictionary, "Moral" : of or relating to principles of right and wrong in behavior

This question of right and wrong is what is ultimately on my mind here. If something is moral it is right. Conversely, if something is immoral it is wrong. Or is it...................

Ok, so atheists can be moral--- "We atheists are just as likely as Christians to jump in that river--perhaps more likely."

And this morality is a decision I make based on my assessment of what is most beneficial for me--- "Morality is simply the avoidance of unnecessary harm."

And the way to be moral is "to learn what causes harm and how to avoid it"

Ok, so far this argument establishes the individual as morally autonomous. That is, whatever an individual deems to cause the least amount harm is right.

Now I, as a morally autonomous person, need to decide how to behave.

Dan Barker: "Why should I treat my neighbor nicely? Because we are all connected. We are part of the same species, genetically linked. Since I value myself and my species, and the other species to whom we are related, I recognize that when someone is hurting, my natural family is suffering"

1) Up till now, I have been following along the lines of Dan's own logic. But here he seems to make some wild assumptions. I will first assume that Dan expects his conclusion to be applicable to me. How does he conclude that I value myself, my species or other species to which I am related? What if I don't give a rat's patootie?

2) Suppose that I do care about myself. Maybe what causes me the least amount of suffering causes you to hurt like hell. But I made the moral decision because I didn't suffer. Suppose Bill and Ted are on a small hypothetical island. One day, Bill gets tired of looking at Ted and decides to kill him. Bill gets more food out of the deal. But Bill might not have Ted's help if he breaks his leg. There are definite advantages and possible disadvantages for Bill. You get the idea. Did Bill do the right thing, is Bill a moral person?

Interested in your response,
Josh