Saturday, December 27, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

Pastoral Medicine

Back around 1994 I began deputation ministry for my denomination in order to go to Chile as a church planter. As I began traveling (about 6000 miles per month) I began gaining weight. About this time my wife reported that my snoring had also increased. In short, I simply didn't feel well.

I went to my pastor for counseling. He said "Kevin, you look like you're gaining weight. And you look tired. How is your prayer life?" I told him that it "wasn't what it ought to be." He then told me how prayer would help me handle stress, blah blah blah.

Of course, being the dutiful drone, I bought it. But not a whole lot changed. I went to Chile, lost weight, and was able to take a siesta in the afternoon. During periods of heightened stress I would snore terribly, and my wife began to notice me gasping breath in my sleep.

I came to the states and took a stressful job as a therapist serving low income people. I gained back most of the weight I had previously lost. This time, I didn't go back to the pastor. . .I went to an MD. She referred me to a sleep specialist, who performed two sleep studies on me. The diagnosis was severe obstructive sleep apnea. I wake up about 30 times per hour at night, and always feel dead all day long, especially in the afternoon.

The doc prescribed a CPAP machine, and I slept with it for the first time last night. I woke up on my own after 8 hours of sleep (whereas I ususally awaken about 3-4 times fully per night). I have had energy all day long, and even after having a beer with lunch don't feel the need to nap. I even rode about 5 miles on the bike with my wife this AM.

So, the pastor told me to pray. He can't be faulted, he's not qualified. But isn't it funny how he didn't even think of a medical condition?

I wonder how many other people have fallen victim to this type of quackery. . . .

Kevin

Friday, December 26, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

God does not need your help to defend him from a fool

I don't intend to enter into a debate over the truth or untruth of Christianity or any other religion with you in this letter. As a far more intelligent person than myself once said, "God does not need your help to defend him from a fool". What I would like to address is the base hypocrisy in your entire movement.

You portray Christians (or anyone "stupid" enough to acknowledge God) as being brainwashed, programmed, and generally sheep led by bigger sheep. In it's place you offer another belief system for which you can offer no more proof than the one you wish the world to divest itself of.

I will be the first to admit, many Christians are hypocritical, self-righteous, proudly ignorant, irritating, and generally no fun to be around. Anyone who has a belief system which they think people around them would be better off sharing can be like this, including atheists and agnostics. The annoyance isn't Christianity, it is anyone who is arrogant enough to think that they have solved the mysteries of the universe (and at the same time thinks that you haven't).

I am a Christian and my best friend is an atheist. We respect each others beliefs, and we each know that neither of us will ever convince the other of the "truth" of our respective positions.

To me, this website is on the same level as the many Christian polemic websites which degrade atheists and agnostics as hellbound heathens. I would defend to the death your right to say whatever you want about me and my faith, as long as you are leaving me alone to practice my beliefs. I long ago decided that the only soul I have any direct control over is my own, and that I should allow everyone else in the world to worry about theirs in their own way.

My fondest Christmas wish is that everyone else in the world, believers and unbelievers, would do the same.

Dominus Tecum,
emailaddress: audibel@mycobbweb.com
Atlanta, Georgia

Wednesday, December 24, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

Religion Detoxification

Dear Ex-Christians,

My Name is Clint Clark and I’ve developed a small website that may be an interesting link addition to your site. I call it “Religion Detoxification.” One of its features is “The Logical Ten Commandments.” It also has some history on the development of Settlement Religion along with some important points about Oral Tradition.


The address is: www.artdsm.com/religiondetoxification

Thank you for your consideration

Sincerely,

Clint Clark
clint@artdsm.com

One World for LIFE - Animal Nations: Homo sapiens

Sunday, December 21, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

Obviously you were never truly saved...

Obviously you were never truly saved, which means that you were never truly
a Christian. Why? Because you think that GOD is the reason for everything.
When you met people that didn't believe in God or believed some other crap,
you thought it was GOD blinding their sight so they couldn't see clearly.
I'm sorry, but GOD does no such thing. SIN blinds us from seeing clearly.
SIN is darkness, like a fog, that we cannot see the light through. GOD did
not create nor allow SIN. MAN allowed SIN by first doubting and then
denying. GOD cannot look at SIN, which is why CHRIST had to die on the
cross. His blood covers our SIN and makes us white as snow. Hence the reason
why we're all doomed for HELL if we do not repent and accept Jesus as our
blood sacrifice. We deserve HELL because GOD cannot stand SIN nor to be near
it. Suffering is also not in conjunction with GOD. Suffering is in
conjunction with SIN. SIN created suffering. If there were no SIN, there
wouldn't be any suffering.

It's all very simple, easy to comprehend, common knowledge. You weren't
praying to an "invisible man," you were praying to GOD. Regardless of what
religion you believe, there is no denying that we were created by a higher.
We did not come from a speck of dirt that exploded. A dirt speck smaller
than a period CANNOT result in what you see before you. Use your head and
THINK! Tiny dot. Mass galaxy. Hmm...

And so, being that a higher being created us, there would have to be some
way of communicating with him. Prayer is that communication. Whether you do
it on your knees or as if you're talking to yourself, knowing that a higher
being had to create all this, you know you are talking to him. He may not
answer back in your tongue, but reassuredly he does answer you.

Prodigy

emailaddress: Prodigy@backpacker.com

Wednesday, December 17, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

I feel so sorry for you

This website is formed directly from the pits of hell. If you only could open your heart to Jesus Christ, your life would be filled with much more happieness, joy, and reward. I pray the the Lord comes into your life and softens your heart.

God created you, loves you, and will forgive you no matter what you have done. I pray the you come to find this out and know the lord.

God Bless you!

Laura

Tuesday, December 16, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

Good Luck BUD!

I must say that you are the most unintelligent fool I have ever come across. Your ignorance is amazing. There's not a single contradiction in the entire Bible. To save time, and make my point, we'll deal with your "major" contradiction theory. You claim that 1 John 1:8 vs. 1 John 3:6-9 is contradictory. I suggest that you go back to kindergarten and receive a graduation diploma on reading because you obviously learned nothing your first time around. Let me explain this for you, seeing as how unimaginably slow you are in the head.

1 John 1:8 is self explanitory. If we tell ourselves that we do not sin, or have never sinned, or aren't a sinner, we decieve ourselves. Therefore, the truth of the matter is not in us. You understand this, yes?

1 John 3:6-9 is just as self explanitory. At least for those of us with intelligence. More specifically, you're trying to say that 3:6 is the contradiction because it's the only verse of the four that has anything "similar" to 1:8. Let me explain this VERY slowly for you. This verse does NOT say that when we are in Christ we never sin. Far from it. Even while living in Christ we are still tempted by sin. However, God floods us with His grace at those times so that we can resist the temptations. We can either choose to accept His grace and back away from the temptation of sin, or we can give in to it. If we abide, or remain, in Christ, he strengthens us so that we can resist the temptations of sin thereby not sinning.
"Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not:" All past sin is forgiven to those who have repented and asked for forgiveness. After that point, if you remain in Christ, when you are tempted by sin and take advantage of His grace to resist that temptation - YOU DO NOT SIN. Get the picture? If you get the urge to kill somebody, you have two choices. You can kill him, which causes you to sin. Or you can resist the urge, which causes you NOT to sin.

I'll be happy to disspell any other "contradictions" you "think" you have. For instance, Noah's ark. In one spot is says two of every animal while in another is says seven. Well, if you're intelligent enough and know how to read and can understand what you read, God tells Noah to take two (2) of every animal BUT to take seven (7) of the CLEAN animals. Understand? Good boy/girl/it! :o)

Name: Xtreme

emailaddress: Good@luck.bud

Sunday, December 14, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

Raised a Heathen

Main Entry: 1god
Pronunciation: 'gäd also 'god
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English; akin to Old High German got god
Date: before 12th century
1 capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshiped as creator and ruler of the universe b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind
2 : a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality
3 : a person or thing of supreme value
4 : a powerful ruler

I was raised a heathen. My parents both came from Christian backgrounds, but were not at all religious when they reached the age of reason before my birth. Although I have had to deal with the arrogance of and rejection by Christians I never succumbed to their faith. About 20-25 years ago when I was looking for a mate I lived in an area where most everybody was Christian. I studied Christianity and Judaism because I figured that I may have to settle for a Christian mate, but I saw them as screwed up although I or didn't really analyze them as sufficiently as I should have. I eventually found a mate that was a Christian, but it was more difficult in those days.

I post the definition of "god" to propose that an atheist is not actually,

Main Entry: athe·ist
Pronunciation: 'A-thE-ist
Function: noun
Date: 1571
: one who denies the existence of God

From what I have seen reading atheist opinion they are great believers in "reality".

If you look at the premise of the #1 definition of "god" above it says,

"God is the supreme or ultimate reality."

It is after the premise is stated that we get into religion based aspects of "god/reality" that are rejected by atheists, myself and other rational thinkers.

Perhaps c should be added to #1 stating,

god: the supreme or ultimate reality, c. of whose aspects are yet to be totally defined.

The premise of the definition god = reality seems agreeable to most. Of course, there are those that probably do not view our existence as reality.

Anyway, It's food for thought.

I think definiton #4 could be in reference to President G.W. (God Willing) Bush.

When I look at the religious right in politics today trying to destroy the ideals of our founding fathers, establish Christianity as our preferential and national religion and push us around with their organized political clout I am deeply disturbed.

Are or can atheists, rationalists, deists, pantheists, agnostics, and the like organize to protect ourselves from the organized religious right already entrenched in the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches of our government? If we do not organize politically, politicians will overlook our opinions and continue to cater to others who have organized a political body. Any suggestions?

Guy DeBryan

Friday, December 12, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

The C.H.R.I.S.T. Method

I would like to present to the Freethinkers on this site a new way to define how Christians use there twisted mindset to interpret reality and what unbelievers say in order for it to fit into their own world-view.

I call it the Christian Harmful to Reality Ignorant Switcharoo Technique or C.H.R.I.S.T. for short.

You people know exactly where I'm coming from with this one! We see it in the debates all of the time. We see it especially in the evolution/creation debates and we expecially see it when we open our eyes to the world around us.

Can I get an AMEN my fellow Brothers and Sisters in Life?

Fweethawt

Wednesday, December 10, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

Cleck it out...

Hi! I used to be the webmaster of www.geocities.com/ragemachinez, atheist ex-Xian from Singapore. I now have my own site, singaporeatheist.com.

Have been a fan of your site since, fuck, I can't remember.. Keep up the good work and give my site the once over.. We atheists/ex-Xians gotta stick together ya know..

Hades

check out this photo

HELL TO PAY!Master of the web,

Check out this photo I took of an outrageous billboard in surburban Atlanta, Ga. Talk about intimidation, can you believe this crap!?

Maybe you can post it on the letters/testimonies section so everyone can get a look at it and sound off.

Thanx

DM

(webmaster note: The sign says "For Me - Against Me" on the left and "Against Me = There is Hell to Pay" on the right"

Remember: JESUS loves you, but, if you don't love him back ................... )


Monday, December 08, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

My Two Bits...

Dave,

Thanks for your open and honest testimony. It was helpful and I found some similarities (and some differences) with my own religious background. I am now in a "holding pattern" regarding Christian belief and practice, being in my mid-thirties with a young family and a busy job taking most of my time and headspace. However I have not given up on the idea of trying to come up with a world-view that makes more sense to me. Oh, I have dispatched with organised religious practice some time ago after spending 12 years in a cult (Herbert Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God). The de-programming continues...

For what it is worth, I have enjoyed reading Scott Peck's books. You may have read "The Road Less Travelled"? He is I guess an unconventional Christian with a background in Psychiatry. One of his theories of personal growth talks about four stages (bit like Fowler): chaos, formal religion, skepticism, mysticism. Originated with his observation over time that many of his patients with strong religious tendencies often left therapy as athiests/agnostics/skeptics, and vice versa. I'm in the skepticism bit I guess, and hoping that I might progress to mysticism if its more than just mindgames.

Out of interest, Peck is a believer in the "still, small voice of God" that 'talks to us'. Have you ever had the experience yourself of hearing a voice in your head that was not your own? I haven't myself as yet, and to be honest would be a bit worried if I did. How could I judge whose voice it might be? God or the devil? Or a second personality? (Shades of Gollum: My precious, we wants its...!!)

I sense that the larger questions of life cannot be answered until I die: either oblivion and therefore not a problem, or an afterlife to discover the answers. Not sure where that leaves me in terms of a logical way to live now. Morality mostly seems sensible. Trouble is, if you read Ravi Zacharias, that leads to God's existence as moral lawgiver. I seem to be stuck with acknowledging God exists but then having no way to adequately progress from that assertion to a way of life. Christian religion has failed me and relying on myself (or the Spirit, ahem) seems fraught with my imperfections. I have certainly not read as much as you have but my instincts are that much of my dilemma has been addressed by theologians and philosphers down through history. But clearly there has been no outright conclusion, just camps of opinion. Will have to read some more, won't I.

Well, that's my two bits. Take care of yourself.

Gray
gm_robertson@hotmail.com

Dear ‘Ex-Christians’

This site is amazing. It is evil, but it is amazing. It is strange to see that so many Christians can just leave the truth. Yes the truth.

Anyway, Let me first tell you a bit about myself. I am a devoted Christian who already been and gone through many of your stages. For 2 ½ years I asked questions, like “why is there evil?” and the like-like. Fortunately for me, God opened my eyes to let me see the truth. He did this in a very strange way. I was walking home one day and I said to myself “I know I’m a sinner, and I believe you’re kinda real, then the next minute I was asking for forgiveness and I became a Christian. So you’re going to ask “How did you know God was now in you?” Well it’s really an easy answer. I felt this power, a strange feeling through me. So when I got home I looked and read the bible and I found a passage that basically said “When the Holy spirit enters you , you’ll be granted not only life but gift to serve God. How I thank him.

So being a devoted Christian I can tell you some problems with the bible and Christianity. The first one is that when God spoke -to Moses in particular (he is the main writer of the OT), Moses may have changed the verses to make them sound better. I’m sure that Moses would have first pondered on them. There is also the translation error. There are many Greek words that are similar and some words have the same meanings. This can confuse how the bible is translated. The last and main problem is us. We have our own independent opinions on what the bible says. Look around! There are Baptist, Anglican, Grace, Protestant. etc. All these churches when looking at the bible can translate differently, some symbolically and others literally.

So I personally do not believe it is you who does not believe, yeah sure you are the judge of what you believe, but I believe it is your church. They have confused you and that is why you ask many questions . You are so confused that you are following Satan. I mean, look at this site! A Wiseman once said to me, “Whatever God does, Satan will try to do also”. Is this site not a perfect example?! Look, you have testimonies, evangelisms to your belief, praying for each other (to whom I ask?) and you have some person claiming to be God (Is that not a contradiction to your new belief). You are so caught up in your own human limitations -to ask questions, that you sit here worshiping the devil!

As you can see there is much to talk about on this topic. I could add so much more if I wished. But let me say this, You people who are out there still deciding to ‘leave’ Christianity, why don’t you read the bible, not the OT but the New. You may find the answers you’re looking for. A true Christian would not just give up on what they believe, they would search and find the answers to questions. Then they would rejoice because they found those answers. A true Christian would not be temped by false truths (aka lies) they would search and find the answers to the falseness. A true Christian above all will remain true to God, even in the bad times. I ask to those ‘Ex-Christians’ were you even Christians to begin with, or were you just plain Atheists.

To the person who can speak tongues. I honestly questioned that, I thought “Wow! Not one person in our church speaks tongues -that I know” You have a gift. You also have the choice wether or not you use that gift. I almost envy you, I would love to speak tongues. Fortunately God gave me another gift: Wisdom. Paul stated “do not boast about your strengths but your weaknesses.” Now wisdom is a weakness, people don’t like wise or smart people, but that does not matter. You see I can already tell some of you have questions ready to ask me, and I pray that God will give me the answers.

Devoted Christian

Saturday, December 06, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

Hello again Dave,

I've just looked at your bible quiz. . Pretty interesting. As a bible student I'd certainly come across many of those inconsistencies before, but as we both know, the "faith" answer can be used to justify every nutty concept.

That leads me to a few problems I have had with the whole concept of "faith" for a while. The Bible implies that Christians are rewarded for their faith, which it defines in Hebrews 11 as the "evidence of things not seen". Elsewhere it talks about our faith being "more precious than gold that perishes".

My problem is, why is faith so important?

It would seem that God is hiding from us (some talk of a "shy" God, ...please!) and wants us to pray and have faith to get the answers we're looking for. Some churches teach that we grow in faith by going through trials of suffering and believing God will get us through them (evidence to the contrary notwithstanding). You may even recall a popular little piece of a few years ago, "Footsteps in the sand" about God carrying us through our hard times, even though it feels to us that he isn't there. Why is God playing hard to get if he really wants a relationship with us? Some would say we've earnt the separation from God through original sin. So I guess this really makes earth hell as some define it?

I don't buy the faith-building tenet. If we go to an afterlife with God and will "see him as he is' (Book of Revelation, I think), why would we need faith -- we can see him, and talk to him directly presumably?

Perhaps I am confused or ignorant. But I'm not sure how many Christians have thought this through.

What are your thoughts?

Gray

The de-programming continues...

Dave,

Thanks for your open and honest testimony. It was helpful and I found some similarities (and some differences) with my own religious background. I am now in a "holding pattern" regarding Christian belief and practice, being in my mid-thirties with a young family and a busy job taking most of my time and headspace. However I have not given up on the idea of trying to come up with a world-view that makes more sense to me. Oh, I have dispatched with organised religious practice some time ago after spending 12 years in a cult (Herbert Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God). The de-programming continues...

For what it is worth, I have enjoyed reading Scott Peck's books. You may have read "The Road Less Travelled"? He is I guess an unconventional Christian with a background in Psychiatry. One of his theories of personal growth talks about four stages (bit like Fowler): chaos, formal religion, skepticism, mysticism. Originated with his observation over time that many of his patients with strong religious tendencies often left therapy as athiests/agnostics/skeptics, and vice versa. I'm in the skepticism bit I guess, and hoping that I might progress to mysticism if its more than just mindgames.

Out of interest, Peck is a believer in the "still, small voice of God" that 'talks to us'. Have you ever had the experience yourself of hearing a voice in your head that was not your own? I haven't myself as yet, and to be honest would be a bit worried if I did. How could I judge whose voice it might be? God or the devil? Or a second personality? (Shades of Gollum: My precious, we wants its...!!)

I sense that the larger questions of life cannot be answered until I die: either oblivion and therefore not a problem, or an afterlife to discover the answers. Not sure where that leaves me in terms of a logical way to live now. Morality mostly seems sensible. Trouble is, if you read Ravi Zacharias, that leads to God's existence as moral lawgiver. I seem to be stuck with acknowledging God exists but then having no way to adequately progress from that assertion to a way of life. Christian religion has failed me and relying on myself (or the Spirit, ahem) seems fraught with my imperfections. I have certainly not read as much as you have but my instincts are that much of my dilemma has been addressed by theologians and philosphers down through history. But clearly there has been no outright conclusion, just camps of opinion. Will have to read some more, won't I.

Well, that's my two bits. Take care of yourself.

Gray

Tuesday, December 02, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

find yourself in Hell

I am sorry but I do not appreciate your website at all your utter disrespect for Christianity is appalling. I pray that God has mercy on your soul and that you find the truth before it's to late and you find yourself in Hell!!!

Appalled Christian

Sunday, November 30, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

Pray for me. Will you?

Hi,

It's not easy for an agnostic/apostate to live with Christians. Thanksgiving day all my believing relatives (wife, brother, sister-in-law, son, daughter-in-law, two grandkids, plus my deist sister, were getting ready to sit at the table for a big feast. Most were still standing except me and my 16 year-old, 6' 2", grandson. His mother said, "Stand up Nathan." He didn't (I think he wanted to remain sitting like grandpa). She again said, Nathan, stand up!" So, he slowly obeyed his mother.

That just bugs me something awful. What bodily position is necessary to talk to an invisible spirit (if there are spirits)? While they pretend to pray, grandpa sits and looks at each one and feel sorry for most of them, but not my daughter-in-law. My Deist sister goes along with it and bows her head and closes her eyes, because she said, "I don't want to make waves." I think I will NEVER get used to all this. Pray for me. Will you? Ha ha.

William F Henness [wildbillh@winco.net]

My input

Feel free to express myself fully, eh? Alright.

Doing a random search on sex and religion, I stumbled upon this website. Wow. The thing that caught my attention was that you made it sound like, oral, and anal sex, or any sex basically that did not lead to pregnancy, was a supposed sin? That it shouldn't be enjoyed by religious people. (Or something like that. I didn't take time to read all of the shit.) Let me assure that that is pretty much bull. Jesus created that as a reward for a boy and girl who love each other and are commited to each other. As well as other types of sexual gratification. You don't have to be an "ex-christian" to enjoy these things. If you enjoy it, you enjoy it. Sex, nomatter what religion, is one of the most self expressive, life-affirming acts we as humans can participate in. Created especcially for us.

Among other things, this website is sickening. If you want to be a so-called, "ex-christian" go right ahead. It's not my soul. But for you to denounce the Christian faith and make jokes? (The "blah blah blah" Bible was a nice touch. Oh yes, and the Calvin - Jesus fish was a good idea too! Man, that was original!) Think about this. We have our Christian sites that talk about faith and what we choose to believe. But do we dis you guys? No. In our "bullshit" religion we pray for the "ex-christians".

And the article "A Plea to True Christians", yes, there are commandments that were written as sort of guidelines. And it is a point in our religion to try to follow them as much as possible. But on top of being Christians, we are also human. If we were born perfect, we wouldn't need a God. He made us so that we could have a free will. Would you rather be a puppet? Another main point in the Christian religion in Jesus' forgiveness and mercy. He's not an old man, sitting, watching us, just waiting for us to make a mistake so he can zap us down! He's so completely the opposite it's not funny.

It also states in the Bible that once you know Him, you cannot be seperated from him. So good-luck to all you, "ex-christians"!

You have us, and our Lord completely wrong. May God show his mercy on you.

Merri

Saturday, November 29, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

Hey!

Really like what you've done here! Quite an exhaustive site . . . okay, enough of the BS. I was wondering if you wouldn't mind linking my site on yours -- whereever you deem appropriate (just not under the nude pictures section, please! LOL!). I will do the same for yours on my next web-update.

Ex-Pentecostals.org (appropriately found at http://ex-pentecostals.org -- imagine that!) is a website networking people leaving the insanity of Pentecostalism and its cousin, that circus called the Charismatic "movement." About half of us have ascended to agnosticism/atheism -- but we don't discriminate . . . we just tell truth about the bizarre nature of our former faith, and try to help those still "bound" up in it -- out.

Check us out, and link us if you will. Thanks in advance.

Ciao for now!

Jay Ketcherside
ex-pentecostals.org

Friday, November 28, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

Hello Webmaster

I love your site; it's been very helpful to me in trying to leave christianity. I say trying to, because it's very difficult. My main fear is that I'm making a huge mistake. It is causing a huge deal of cognative dissonance - my mind doesn't believe a word of it but my emotions are harder to convince. You can read my 'testimony' under your forums page. It is called Still trying to Leave.

The thing I have a huge problem with is speaking in tongues. Everything else from Christianity I can see as a lie, or sometimes as a story, along the same lines as Father Christmas, and Fairies. But why can I still speak in tongues?

I would love to know if you know of any scientific explanation for what speaking in tongues really is. It would help me out a great deal; at the moment it's the only thing standing between me and some kind of closure on all this.

Thanks!

Ruth

Thursday, November 27, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

Moses Bet

I have a bet for any christian who comes accross this page;

Firstly I should explain something; to you, Moses is a freer of slaves. To me, Moses is a cross between Hitler and Izaac from 'Children of the Corn'.

Anyway, here's the bet; read everything in the Bible that Moses does between comeing down from Mount Sinai to the time the Hebrews reach Jerusalem.

I refer, of course, to such things as the genocidal slaughter of entire villages, including men, women, boys, even livestock. The "Lucy ones", however, were the females "that have not known a man by sleeping with him", the virgins, the little girls, who, after watching their whole family and village be slaughtered, were then kidnaped and used as sex slaves. And the slaves he freed? he killed most of 'em afew days later for breaking rules they weren't even informed of yet.

So the bet is, if you can read all that, and then explain, convincingly, what makes Jehovah good and Hitler evil, I'll give you $5.00!

Deamond

Black Heathen

No need for a long story.I just observed that no one could boast being any better off than the next Church,Temple,Mosque or Synagogue. It was apparent that we are all just spinning our wheels in intellectual dishonesty.

Combine this with the fast that the Happiest people ive ever seen are Children before the God disease takes root. It was plain to see we try too hard to find things that are not lost.

I am from Dayton Ohio in the US. I was born into Christianity and left when I was 19. I have been involved with Muslim, Christian, Nubian, Islamic, and Hebrew "churches". Now I consider myself in the Satanist, Freethinker, Agnostic, and Taoist camp. I didn't have a choice about becoming a Christian, and I would say that a man can never stay true to a thing once he has fathomed it's depths.

Mike

Wednesday, November 26, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

Thanks for the info on Horatio Spafford

Dave,

Thanks for the info on Horatio Spafford. I found your website very informational...Your intellectual ability really is quite amazing. I was in an accident almost 5 yrs ago...I lost both arms, and broke my back in 3 spots...I spend most of my time in a wheelchair. I had 5 young children, a 13 day old baby, a 1yr old, a 2 yr old, and a 5 and 7 yr old. When I came out of the drug-induced coma after 8 days...I begged for God to take me home...Nothing was 'enough' to make me want to live a life w/out arms, or bound to a wheelchair. I had given my life to God as a 12 yr old...it was a sincere conversion experience...just like you personally describe...I lived, mostly out of ignorance...a lukewarm to cold Christian existence. Like you, I had the baptism of the holy spirit nightmare...I was 14, and spent hrs kneeling on a cold concrete floor, resting my face on a metal folding chair...that rivaled the floor's frigid temperature. Crying and pleading with God for the Holy Spirit...I wanted everything that God had for me. I can relate also to many of the other things you relate to in your anti-testimony...Affairs by pastors, church splits, and a rash of political crap in the name of God...I too, struggled with sexuality. I got 2 different girlfriends pregnant...within 1 yr. I finally got married...just so that I wouldn't struggle with the guilt anymore.Out of room, I'd luv 2 email you

Wednesday, November 19, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

10 dollar paypal

Hey, I borrowed your "10 dollar paypal" idea, and wrote this post on a christian apologetic message board.

"Jesus said, that 'any who claim to love me will do as I say'. Those who claim to love me but do not keep my teachings are liars, and the truth is not in them. The Bible also says that liars and lukewarm will NOT inheiret the kingdom of heaven, God will SPEW them out of his site on judgement day...so you better LISTEN UP.

Jesus said, give FREELY to ANYONE who ASKS. If someone demands your cloak, give him your tunic also.

Here is my simple request. Send me $150 dollars. If you do not, you are not giving freely to I who am asking. You are therefore, by letter of the Bible, going to hell if you don't comply.

Let's see how many of you ACTUALLY believe the Bible."


Funny thing is, one guy said he would send me $150 dollars, but if I cashed it, God would put a curse on me. Supposedly, the check is already in the mail.

Here's his response:
"I want to make myself clear, you send me your mailing address I will send you a check, but I hope you are clear on one thing if you cash the check then you better be prepared for whatwill happen to you, you are bringing upon yourself curse and you will loose much more than $150 you are trying to extort from me. I will give you the money because I know God is going to judge you, and I can't wait and see how, you will beg me one day to take back the $150 to relieve your judgment, and I may refuse. So send by e-mail your mailing address if you are prepared. "

Do you think this guy is a lunitic? I should get a PO Box! This could be a great way to make money! Thanks!

Aaron

What would you say?

Hi I am doing a report for my college english class and had a question for you guys. If someone was preaching at you or telling you that pornography was a sin how would you try or what would you say to convince them that it wasn't.

If you would reply it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

James

emailaddress: faith_preacher1@yahoo.com

Friday, November 14, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

Dear Christian(Freedom From Religion Foundation)

Dear Christian:

I have heard the message of salvation many times: we are all sinners, and we can have forgiveness and eternal life if we confess and accept Jesus as Savior and Lord. I have heard that there can be no morality outside of God's laws, and that no one can be truly good without being transformed by the Spirit. I have also heard that there is no peace, love, joy, or meaning without Christ. Christians feel that unbelievers are empty slaves to carnality and selfish pride, unable to grasp truth, and must humble themselves before God's plan. I have heard that the bible contains the "inspired word of God" --a message of ultimate importance -- and that may scholars claim to have proven its uniqueness and reliability. Some Christians say that they have verified the truth by personal experience.

This is all very interesting. I want the best for my life. If there is an eternal paradise, I would hate to miss it: and I definitely would not want to roast in a literal hell. It would be unwise to ignore something like a god, especially one who takes interest in my life. I would ask a thousand questions of an all-knowing mind.

You and I breathe the air of the same planet, and truth should be the same for us both. The basic question which should be asked about any religion is: is it TRUE? If the basic claims of theism, sin, miracles, and revelation are true, then maybe your "good news" is truly good.

However, I am an unbeliever. It's not that I particularly want to doubt: it's just that I have no choice. I have examined your claims and I am not convinced that they are true. I may even wish them to be true (or I may not) -- but I am not so naive to think that something can be true or false just because I desire it. There must be some reason, beyond wishful thinking.

I'm sure you agree. You certainly doubt that thunder is caused by the anger of Zeus, or that Allah is the one true god. Like myself, you see them as myths created to explain the unknown, to give life some kind of meaning, to enhance culture, or to empower the ruling caste. They are born in human imagination, and can be explained without reference to a supernatural world.

There are many gods which Christians reject. I just believe in one less god than you do. The reasons that you might give for your atheism toward the Roman gods are likely the same reasons I would give for not believing in Jesus.
You and I are alike. We have minds which perceive, analyze, integrate, and react. Our only difference in this regard is that you have judged (or assumed) the premises of your religion to be factual, while I have not. You would not want to commit yourself to an idea of which your were not convinced, would you?

You are welcome to try to convince me that Christianity is true, but you should know that I am not going to "just believe" by faith. I will demand substantiation. If you say that the bible is reliable, I will ask you to prove it. I may ask why the bible contains so many errors and contradictions. If you are not familiar with the finding of critical bible scholars with divers points of view, I will view your conclusions with suspicion.
Neither will I believe because millions of other do. Truth is not determined by vote. If it were, the earth would still be flat.

I will ask if your conclusions are logical. If you want me to consider your beliefs, then be ready to tackle question like these.

* Is there a higher judge of truth than reason?

* After centuries of bitter religious fighting, why is your mind suddenly blessed with the true way of thinking?

* What is morality, and is it possible without a deity?

* Is the violent history of the Church consistent with a message of love?

* What is a contradiction, and what would the bible have to say in order to be discrepant?

* Why did your god create evil? (Isaiah 45:7)

* Is there anything wrong with skepticism?

* Why should inner religious experience point to anything outside the mind?

* Historians must assume natural regularity over time, so how can the bible be completely historical when it contains miracles, which violate nature?

* What is a god, exactly, and why do you think one exists?

What could be said about Christianity which, if true, would make it false? If you can't answer that question, then your conclusions may be based on something other than honesty. You can't expect me to respectfully listen to you if you are close to a full, honest inquiry -- if you are unwilling to allow, theoretically, that you might be wrong. I am open minded and willing to change my position, if warranted, Can you also be fair enough to follow the facts, wherever they lead?

Many unbelievers have carefully considered these questions, perhaps even more deeply than you have. And some of us were at one time just as religious as you are now. After honest examination, I am convinced that the bible is primitive mythology, that there is no evidence for a god, that Christians are not more moral or tolerant than atheists, and that religion has caused more harm than good. Why should my conclusions be less valid than yours?

You feel that the complexity of life demands a designer: but the mind of such a creature would be at least as complex as the rest of nature, requiring a designer itself, wouldn't it? If everything needs a cause, then there can be no first cause: and if you nonetheless assert a First Cause, I will ask how you know (assume) that there can be an uncaused cause. If a deity can be thought eternal, so can the universe. God-belief does not answer any questions: it just replaces a mystery with another mystery: if god made everything, who made god?

If the mind of a god is the measure for morality, then there is now way to measure if god's actions are "good." The murderous, sexist, intolerant activities of the biblical deity and the presence of chaos, ugliness and pain in the universe portray your "supreme" god as supremely immoral, by my standards. I could invent a nicer god than that, and so could you.

If you have new concrete evidences or rational arguments, them I will be glad to hear them. But please don't waste my time preaching the same old sermons I have been hearing for years.

I am quite happy with life. I have purpose and peace of mind--I prefer goodwill over repentance. I don't want to die, but I accept death as natural. I sense no need to worship, confess, or apologize to anyone. I feel no guilt, and therefore no desire to be "saved" from anything: sin is a primitive idea, and salvation is religion's offer to solve a problem of its own making.

I happily admit I am a skeptic: and I am proud of the way I think. Although humans are not perfect, I respect the human mind and I am optimistic about our abilities to continue to solve life's problems with reason and kindness.

I don't claim to have all the answers; but if you want me to hear your message then I will ask you to listen to mine. There is a wealth of scholarly and informative freethought material on the bible. Jesus, morality, freethought heritage, atheism agnosticism, and rationality.

Joseph Kazmar

Friday, November 07, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

In Desperate Need of Biblical Guidance

I am at what seems to be a very pivotal point in my walk with Christ and I am in desparate need of some serious Biblical guidance.

I can't seem to get good answers to my questions from my churchfellows or clergy and I was hoping to find some insight on the internet.

My question is concerning the book of Judges chapter 19. I know that there is a profound message buried deep within God's Holy Word in this chapter and I can't quite figure it out. I know for a fact that once I figure this one out, my eternal salvation will be forever sealed.

Once you offer your insights into this chapter, could someone please tell me what the tribes/churches did with the pieces once they got them? Please consider that my eternal soul is on the line here.

Thank You and may God bless You.


City: Warren

State: Ohio

Country: U.S.A.

Why I joined: To learn how to escape from reality

Why I left: I haven't yet. I'm still looking for help in this and that's why I submitted the request.

Fweethawt

Thursday, November 06, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

STOP TALKING ABOUT HELL AND SATAN!

I have something to say to everyone who has posted a message here. Christains - STOP TALKING ABOUT HELL AND SATAN! I'm a christian and I don't talk about hell or satan, considering not even the bible fully supports either of these concepts. Its people like you that turn people off to christianity. I also do not bash other religions - if in the end they inspire people to do good unselfishly, I believe that they have been saved through jesus christ. As for the non-Christians - quit being so smug.

I honestly admit that the bible has translation errors, little editorial changes made by nutcases and has been interpreted in evil ways by mislead people. HOWEVER - the final message remains the same. Jesus Christ lived and died for all of us. God loves us all, even those of us that do horribly wrong things (or at least more wrong than others). Please stop being so smug about not believing in the one who loves you so much. There are in fact many of us who prefer having hope rather than no hope at all. God bless all of you forever.

Anomi

Wednesday, November 05, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

How I changed

It saddens me to see how almost all of the postings and testimonies come from people that grew up in one of those crappy fundamentalists churches that condemn every thing we do....and I have to agree with that guys...I hate it as well!! we have free will to do whatever we want....however God gave us that morality when he created us...otherwhise how can you say what's good and what's not good???

I have read tons of sites, and stuff about how some people researched for flaws in the bible...and I have to say that some arguements are quite good...however, not flawless, some of the bibliographical references are wrong, some places and dates are really wrong as well....I'm still a believer....and nothing came out from church, it came out from a personal commitment I made with God and no single person obliged me to do it....and YES THINGS CHANGED, and still are....and nothing you can tell me will make me change my mind specially after witnessing miracles in my life....and some SUPER NATURAL Natural-laws defying miracles as well.....something that evolution or atheism will never be able to explain .....

You can keep doing your efforts to destroy religion, and I even agree with you in doing it so...

But God...HAHA.....good luck trying to destroy all the evidence that surrounds us...

Noe

City: Guadalajara

State: Jalisco

Country: Mexico

Became a Christian: 15

Ceased being a Christian: I'm still Christian and forever will be

Labels before: Baptist

Labels now: God follower....hate religions and dogmas

Tuesday, November 04, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

Some observations

There are a few things that I have found interesting since discovering this site. I notice the same circular arguments and opinions that never conclude anything significant at all. I will try to point out some of the inconsistencies I have seen. Both for the benefit of the non-believer (so you all can come up with some new arguments)and also for believers who sometimes read this site and question their own faith.

1. A lot of people argue that God cannot be a just God as the Bible states because He sends people to Hell. There are some problems with this statement. Firstly most of us would agree that justice today cannot be served without some sort of punishment or loss of privilege. What if judges in murder trails simply said “We know you killed someone but it just isn’t fair to send you to prison so you can't continue to enjoy the rights and privileges of others.” That wouldn’t be justice at all. In fact it would be completely unjust. Also Heaven can be described as the inheritance of God. What right do you have to a fathers inheritance if you deny His existence, curse His name, mock Him, ignore His requests and chastise His other children. Simply you have no right to His inheritance. Others say that He sends people to Hell who have never heard of Christ. This is also false. Paul very clearly addressed this in Romans. “For when Gentiles who do not have the law do instinctively the th
ings of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a Law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written on their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.” Rom. 2:14-16

2. I see most peoples opinions here to be very similar. Everyone who has come up with the revelation that the Bible is not true or that Christianity is false is only falling victim to one of Satan’s greatest lies, “You don’t need God, you can do better without God, and you can be smarter than God.” Everyone thinks they are so great. I used to until I found Christ and now I realize that I have been a sinner from the time I was young and I was in need of a savior to bridge the gap that exists between a human filled with sin and A God that is flawless. Do you really think that after two thousand years of Christianity that you alone have figured out that fatal flaw in the Bible or in Christianity. Not likely. The truth is if it could have been proved wrong it would have happened many years ago. Don’t think that you are that much better than others. Realistically very few people really make a difference in this world all others will simply die and be forgotten. At least when I
die I will be rewarded for my faith.
“Professing to be wise they became fools.” Rom. 1:22


3. The argument that Christians are hypocritical or that bad Christians made you into a non-believer is really a non-issue. Everyone jumps up and down when a Catholic priest is found to have molested some children or a self proclaimed profit of God shoots people in a public square, but the fact is that no matter what you call yourself, Priest or sinner, all will be judged. So the actions of individual does not effect the judgement of God. If the Bible says it is wrong and is sinful then all who do it must be punished. It is that simple. Furthermore no group has done more for other people in the world than Christians. No one has helped more starving children or homeless people or abused spouses than Christians. It is a simple fact, think about that the next time you tell someone that Christianity is wrong and hurts more people than it helps.

Lastly I just want to say that if we all were to follow Christian values, we would have no internal conflicts in this country. When asked what the greatest commandment was Jesus replied, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest commandment. The second is like it, you shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Matt. 22:37-39. If only we could all do this very simple thing. You see God does not ask that much of us. The most important thing is to have faith. I know that this won’t change most of your minds about anything and you will probably just come up with some new angle to misinterpret the word of God, but I wanted to let you all know that without Christ I would not still be married, and without Christ I would lack direction, and without Christ I would still be stuck in circular logic like most of you. Many saw Christ perform miracles in the street and yet did not believe, so it is unrealistic t
o expect you all to believe. I simply ask to consider all things and not make a rash decision when leaving the body of Christ, for you have everything to lose, the stakes could not be higher.

With love and commitment in Christ Jesus,

Phillip Brunnengraeber

Monday, November 03, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

The Secret in the Bible

Hello Webmaster,

One of our authors, Tony Bushby is about to release his second book "The Secret in the Bible".

www.thesecret.thebiblefraud.com

His first book "The Bible Fraud" has been a huge success and is still in strong demand.

www.thebiblefraud.com

Both works have such an extensive bibliography that a dedicated researcher would die for (well, almost!)

The info would be useful to all your readers.

Cheers,

Greg

Sunday, November 02, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

Some disturbing quotes

I am a college student currently attending a Christian University (I'm transferring out at the end of the year) and my Mass Media and Society class was discussing the role of violence in the media and if it has a negative affect on people. On student said that ironically violence could motivate positive aggression:

"When I watch Top Gun, I want to fly airplanes and drop bombs on people. That's positive aggression."

I didn't exactly see the correlation between "positive" and "drop bombs on people", but then again, he was a Christian and I am not.

I also overhead my neighbor say this the other day:

"Whenever I see an animal, I want to shoot and kill it."


Josh

MI, USA

Became a Christian: 4

Ceased being a Christian: 20

Labels before: Church of the Nazarene, fundamentalist

Labels now: Agnostic, Secular Humanist

Why I joined: I was young and it seemed the correct thing to do

Why I left: Couldn't believe anymore

Thursday, October 30, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

My only question to you is why?

Name: Missy

emailaddress: emilybronte30@yahoo.com

Comments: I respect that you have a right to your opinion, even if I don't agree with you. If you're interested in the other side of the coin, a couple of books might interest you. When Critics ask and The Case for Faith (this one is definitely an easier, more entertaining read) are both excellent arguments FOR Christianity, REAL christianity, not empty religion or tradition.

My only question to you is why? Jesus did not gain anything from his time on this earth, nor did the apostles. Quite the contrary, they were all tortured and killed for their beliefs. They might be "famous" today, but at the time they did not gain fame, wealth, or power from their teachings. In fact, their whole message was to downplay themselves and preach love for others.

So, the only options are that Christ was either crazy, lying, or God.

Wednesday, October 29, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

Only God Logic is a reliable source

Interesting site, but one problem with the arguments against God!

You and many other atheists claim to be using common sense and logic when it comes to these matters but you are using flawed human logic so therefore you cannot trust it - Only God Logic is a reliable source which doesnt help your case all that much.

Remember that you are not perfect so your thinking is not perfect which right there Proves God :)

Walker

Tuesday, October 28, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

Ex every day but I come back to Christ within the same breath

I have to say that this website contains some of the most illogical crap that I have read to date. The logic used is nonsensical. Take a college course on logic and debate and you will see what I mean.

This propaganda you have on this site rates second only to that of the Nazi's. (Can you feel that Christian love yet?)

Look if you got screwed over by a person who happened to be a Christian realize that the person did it to you, not the Christian faith. Then more than likely your own human mind did in its search for where to lay blame for your more than probable troubles and sorrows, did lay it on Christianity.

Grow up and just get over it. See a shrink and take some medication and maybe you will be ok. Don't drag other people down with you.

Have a nice day

Jesus Freak

God still loves you

Dave,

my name is darrel and I am a Christian but I am not here to spew filth or verbal diarrea at you.

Despite the fact that I disagree with ideologically I think it is wonderful that you are so interested in matters of philisophical interest; you say in your anti-testimony that people are not the reason you 'deconverted' but you recite a great number of inconsistent Christians; well, there sure are a lot of them, including myself! You may find this corny, but I really don't care; God still loves you; at this point you would say that there is no God but the whole world can deny him and that doesn't change the facts

God Bless You Dave, May he watch over you and protect you, Have a great day

Darrel

Monday, October 27, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

An Awesome Community Here

I've read the responses this community have given to the letter, "I need help," submitted by Emily, the 17 year old girl who is deconverting from Christianity, and I am overwhelmed, myself, by the kindness, compassion, encouragement, and depth of understanding in them. And what I realize is that these responses are not just words, they come from REAL people.

Agnostics, atheists, humanists, and so forth, were demonized by the Christian religion I grew up in. As I have made my own journey out of Christianity, I have met people just like you folks here, and see the lie for what it is.

I read that one of the men is bipolar, and experiences depression. I, too, am bipolar, and part of the reason I have left Christianity is because of how my church and the religion itself, responded to me.

Because of the stigma attached to "mental illness," my mother and father never talked about bi-polar mood disorder in my father's family. His father was bipolar, and his grandfather was also. But it was the great embarassment in my family, apparently, because my parents never talked about it.

Then my father experienced adult on-set bipolar when he was in his late 40's. It's a long story I won't go into here, but he elected not to take lithium, which was all they had back then (there are many more medications now), and as is true for 30% of people with bipolar who don't manage their brain chemistry with medications, he committed suicide.

There are no words to express the grief and shock and trauma and disillusionment I felt. I was in my mid-20's when this happened. Even through my father's mania and depression, my family still did not even talk about what was happening right in front of our terrified eyes -- us kids. The stigma of "mental illness" is very powerful. It has the effect of causing us to be discreditted. No matter what we do or say. We're written off.

My father was an active member of our church, and faithfully thithed from his significant income the entire time we were there, and taught Sunday School, and did anything he was asked to do. It is a non-dinominational congregational church. Your basic bible-believing church.

When it came time for the memorial service, even though this is a Calvinist church which teaches eternal security (once saved, always saved, no matter what), there was dissention in the leadership as to whether my father should be memorialized in the church lest it give the message that a person can commit suicide and go to heaven.

We did have the service at our church as it turned out, but my mother got a phone call a day before telling her that not everyone supported his memorial. So we kids and my mom cried our way through the service in which we honored my father and loved him and grieved for him, knowing that there were unknown people around us despised the ceremony.

My father had served in the Navy, and so we decided to use the bronze marker they give to veterans. We wanted to honor his military service. It had a simple cross over his name and date of birth and death. We liked it.

Not long after this marker was placed on his grave, my mother was informed that several of the men in leadership at our church had visited his grave -- for what purpose, I don't know. She was criticized for using the marker the Navy gave for him, and was told she should have given a stronger "witness."

All this time, we were reeling from the horror of his demise. He had driven up into the hills behind our city, parked his car, and walked into the shrubbery where he sat down and put a gun in his mouth and pulled the trigger. Hikers found him.

Still, no one was talking about bipolar with us kids. Nothing.

Then, my mother and we kids were invited to the home of a deacon and his wife after Church one Sunday. It was our first invitation and relational, social contact with anyone. (No one knew what to say so they pretended nothing had happened.) We were really looking forward to it. After lunch, this man proceeded to grill us as to why my father killed himself. After about 45 minutes of this, he launched into very thinly veiled intimations that he was in hell for committing suicide. We were all in tears by now. If you can imagine it. Here is a family dealing with suicide, and we're all crying around his table (his wife sat silent), and proceeded to make sure we knew that suicide is a mortal sin for which there is no forgiveness. Forget a life devoted to God and love for humanity, my father was in hell. Then he showed us out the door, single file, and shut the door behind us. We were all crying. Even my three brothers.

And it goes on.

There are two things I want to highlight in my letter to you. One is the cruelty in Christianity that is systemic. The second is the issue of mental illness and related mental anguish.

In the evangelical world we were entrenched in, things like depression or any other emotional difficulty were viewed as spiritual problems. The person wasn't completely yielded to the Holy Spirit. Or they weren't reading "the Word" enough. Or there was something else THEY weren't doing correctly in relationship with God, which was the reason for their emotional/psychological difficulty.

If only they had enough faith in the Lord, they wouldn't be depressed. If only they trusted God more and let him work in their life, they wouldn't be ill. It was always interpreted as a spiritual problem and the pastor was who you turned to. Which only further burdened the person, because now, not only are they suffering, it is their fault that they are.

There was little appreciation for such things being organic, or simply chemically produced by the brain. Seeking help through therapy or through a psychiatrist was heavily stigmatized. And "being on medication" for an emotional or psychological problem was the biggest kept secret there was.

This is the reason so many people don't seek professional help for depression or other difficulties.

The probability of the bipolar gene my father had being passed on to us children was that at least two of us would have it. But no one said anything to us about it. The way the church and my mother handled it was to just forget it. Put it behind us and ignore it.

By the time I was thirty-five I was able to look back at a pattern in my life that accounted for why I wasn't able to provide for myself. I was a jack of all trades and master of none. There was a very clear two-year cycle. I have never lacked for energy and enthusiasm and reach-for-it-all attitude. I'd start down one path in college that I got really fired up about, and then all of a sudden I lost interest and quit. Then I sat around for a while until the next burst of energy came through and I went off in another direction altogether. Then that ended.

I have been a pattern-maker in the garment industry, I have learned orchard management for citrus and avacado production, I have prepared to teach English as a second language overseas, I have intended to become an accountant (?), etc. Everything I did, I did really well. I just lost interest and quit. I relied on the energy, the enthusiasm that came from within me.

No one saw this pattern in my life, or helped me with it.

When I was 44 years old I experienced adult onset bipolar. I was manic for three months, then psychotic for another three months. When I got arrested at the local country dance place for disrupting the line dancing, my husband arranged for me to go to the locked unit of a hospital and be treated against my will. The state of California decided I should live, and be treated. I was. Five weeks later I came out of the hospital, and I have been on a roller coaster ride from hell trying to find the medications that will work for me. That experience of mania and psychosis slammed me onto the couch for two years. Literally. I couldn't move. I had drained every single bit of energy right out of my body. I rushed so hard I thought it would drive me right into the ground.

At any rate. I have left Christianity. And I have chosen to own my life for what it is and not to be ashamed or embarassed of myself. I have challenging brain chemistry to manage. That's the sum and substance of how I feel about this. I don't see myself as ill or diseased. In myself, in my inward person, I am whole.

I continue to have surging chemistry which produces all kinds of life experience, but I do everything I know to do to achieve balance in my life. I eat properly, I exercise, I sleep well, I do things and think things that inspire my spirit, and I used medications to balance myself.

All of our experience is a product of our brain chemistry. Everything we feel and experience through our senses is produced by our brain.

I don't have a spiritual problem. I carry a gene that flares up in my body.

Also, as I bring this to a close, while I was manic and psychotic, I experienced things that gave me insight and understanding that I did not have before. There are many, many good things that can come to us individually and corporately from those of us who experience other kinds of "brain chemicaly driven experience." I became truly brilliant during this time. I was able to make instant connections in my mind with all the files and folders I'd collected through my life experience to date, whatever I read I understood completely and immediately. Etc.

As we all know, many of the great contributions to humanity have come from people just like me. Music, Art, Literature, Politics, Philosophy and so forth.

I don't know that I have any great gifts to give humanity, but I have resolved many things in my own psyche that were at odds my whole life. I was split between my bodyself and my spiritself. This is the product of the Christian religion I was raised in that is anti-body, and also western philosophical materialism that says matter is separate and discrete.

So this "illness" I experienced of mania and psychosis HEALED my wounded psyche. Life can do interesting turns. It certainly has so for me.

Anyway, thank you to all of you who responded to Emily. I read them as though they were written to me. I wish you were my neighbors!! You are. Here.

Thank you.

sunlightofday
sunlightofday at netscape.net

Sunday, October 26, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

One Question

Hello everyone.

I am no longer a Christian anymore. I recently made the decision, and simultaneously discovered this great site. I found that I could no longer believe in the stories of the Bible, lacking any concrete evidence. I also could not accept some of the terrible morality that the Bible espouses. I am much happier now, but I had a question to ask that has kind of been bothering me for a while.

How can the supposed healings in Christian churches be explained? I realize in most cases, people are not healed. I was sick for over a year and tried to be healed multiple times, but it never happened. My aunt has cancer has has been healed multiple times, but she is still sick. But, it seems that some people are healed. How can we explain this? And I've heard about personal accounts of people seeing miracles and what not? Is the only explanation that these people are delusional or lying?

Thursday, October 23, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

I need help

I don't know if I am putting this in the right place, but this is where I figure everyone will see it. I need your collective help as a community.

You may remember me from not too long ago; the story of the 17 year old Ex-Southern-Baptist with depression problems.

It has only been about 6 months since the first time I said out loud, "I am not a Christian." It has only been about a year since I first began to realize that my beliefs were largely irrational and started to question my faith.

Where I stand now, I am no longer uncomfortable thinking about religion in general; I am firm in my disbelief. However, there are certain things that can...get to me. Triggers, if you will, that set off an enormous wave of emotions, particularly doubt (that I am doing the right thing, etc.).

The main "trigger" is the Bible. When I was religious (and oh, how religious I was) the Bible consumed every waking thought of my time. For three years I ate, slept, drank, and shitted scripture. I still have my three Bibles: my original Bible given to me when I got "saved" at 5 years old, my trusty "study" Bible filled with my own notes and underlinings, and my four-version "translation" Bible to compare all the different versions. I cannot get rid of them because my family would notice and at this time that is not advisable. Anyway, I LOVED the Scriptures with a passion. I have always been a big literature buff, and even now I have to admit that when considered as a piece of fiction, it is still a masterpiece. Perhaps a masterpiece of lies, but most works of fiction are.

And therein lies the problem. I can't so much as pick up my study Bible without my brain going absolutely nuts. Waves of nausea and doubt roll over me. I once felt the Bible to be the absolute authority, and it still holds some effect over me. Particularly passages that I once loved. I was hoping I could just live with them in the knowledge that they were nothing more than beautiful pieces of writing, but they cannot be that, apparently. They are burned into my mind. I am at a loss.

Does anyone else have this problem?

Other triggers are praise songs (I have always been musically inclined) and memories (we all know how strong they can be).

What am I to do?

Also, without my religious crutch, I have a newfound fear of death. I am having a hard time dealing with the idea of annihilation. And when I say a "hard time", that is a gross understatement. I am not an atheist but neither am I a theist--it's rather hard to describe and I don't want to get into it--but suffice to say that I believe in the existence of immortal souls. However, looking at the face of time, this doesn't seem rational. I am stuck between a rock and a hard place. I welcome comments on this particular issue from anyone but I would PREFER to hear from someone who isn't a total atheist. Just to see if anyone has a view that isn't irrational.

Someone please give me some thoughts to chew on. I am quite young and very overwhelmed.

---

If you are a Xtian PLEASE do not respond. I only want comments from people who aren't part of the problem in the first place.

Emily

Tuesday, October 21, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

I pray that God will draw you back

I am so sorry you feel so strongly against Christianity that you would go to all this trouble. The thing is, God's grace is amazing and his mercies no NO end. He sent His Son to die for you and apparently you once knew that. Christianity won't solve all your problems or erase them but He is the reason you are able to manage them, get through, and triumph over them. I pray that God will draw you back to Him in a mighty way and that you will one day soon use your energies in a way that is pleasing to not only your Father but in way that will inspire peace and truth in your life.

God Bless

I'm not atheist

Unlike so many exchristians, I'm not atheist.

Christians would have you believe that if you walked away from Jesus and bible that you have walked away from God.That is such pretentious bullshit.I've kept my belief in God but it's far removed from this corny man made God that thinks and reacts like a human.

A God made in our image. Like I said I still believe in God but I've stopped pretending to know unknowable things. For all I know the atheists are right. For all I know the Christians are right. It's my opinion, though that the idea that we are born with a sinful nature,a condition we desperately need to be saved from,and that God became a man and a blood sacrifice for our sins, is the biggest lie in human history.

Tom Dixon copyboy8 at netzero.net

Sunday, October 19, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

You Should KILL YOURSELF!!!!!

This amazes me! How you put down God! How about you go to http://www.carm.org and find the answers of why God allowed some wars. Further, these false contridictions in the Bible, you didn't take into consideration that through God, all things are possible. Albert Einsten said we use at the most 10% of our brain power, so who posses the other 90%? If you guys REALLY were athiest however, you wouldnt go through all the trouble to make a website, because plan and simple, athiest could careless because in the end it doesnt matter. You are trying to find answers, you are agnostic. Why try to tell us not to believe in God when it just dont even matter when we die? Furthermore, you were never a real christian because real christians dont fall away from God and understands why God allows to do some things.

I will just leave you with this thought, In the end if you are right, I have nothing to lose, but if i am right, you have ALOT to lose.

Furthermore, I think you are angry with God for a tramatic event that has happened in your life, when in truth it's not his fault.

If our life doesnt matter, i think we should just all kill ourselves...cuz whats the point of living.

Lorraine

Tuesday, October 14, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

What is this all about?

I dont understand how anyone who could finally learn about the lord and feel the feeling when u know god is working in you and then jus decide to give up on him and beleive in nothing...Since I have found god in my life more miracles have happend to me then ever before and it is all because the lord has a plan for me and non beleivers should honestly figure out the true way of life but they dont need me to tell them that god will lead them to him in his own time when they need him trully. in all opinion on this website it makes me sick and sad but honestly u will relize the path u should of taken in the end or be glad u changed...

Sara

Sunday, October 12, 2003                                                                                       View Comments

You are doing an excellent job of debunking Christianity

Dave VanAllen,

I think you're for real. You are doing an excellent job of debunking Christianity. Let me be quite up front with you throughout this message. It will take me a while to say some things, but I will be real with you as you are real with the world through your webpage. I would be honored if you would read my message through to the end and I believe it will be worth your while whatever your final conclusion. However I imagine that with a site this big you must receive quite a bit of mail and have quite a bit of work on your hands. So suite yourself, it's your life and your time. I for one am choosing to spend some time writing you. As a friend perhaps? That's for you to judge. Maybe there are no real friends, only people deluded into thinking so. Maybe I'm one of them. Once again..., let me not waste any more space. I want to quote you 3 times and put in some response.

<<>>

Originally reading this I had some thoughts I wanted to put out but later I see your final position is atheism. I know the philosophical shift between these two positions is a big one and one of a lot of thought. Anyway perhaps I shouldn't have quoted this section, I just could really identify with it in my life. I'll share more later.

<<<...That is another topic that contributed to my first suspicions that Xtianity is a false lie. The striking ignorance and loathing for learning or reading that is rife in the Christian community. Claiming to love god with all their hearts and souls, yet reading his word, memorizing it, studying theology to better understand HIM, is quite beyond most, if not nearly all, Christians. Finding anyone who understands the history of Christianity prior to Darby's dispensational gospel is nearly impossible.>>>

TRUE!!! I was raised in the church and by the age of 15 I knew more theology than anyone I had ever met. Also more Christian apologetics. And beyond that, to go into other issues. I found normal run of the mill pagans to be the friendliest people I'd ever met and couldn't imagine them going to hell! Christians the meanest and deserving of hell! I never had faithful Christian friends, and I never met more than a few Christians that weren't either blatant hypocrites or atleast stupid ignorant ones. I'm trying to be concise, I tend to be wordy but you hear all this stuff all the time, or atleast you've experienced it for yourself so why repeat it? I just want you to know I have been through what you've been through. I left the church and my religion at the age of 20. I was saved at 5, grew up in a Christian family. Was homeschooled. Learned it all, knew it all, knew more than it all. Found Pastor's to be theologically inept and boring. Found hypocrisy and emotional
hedonism at every turn. I grew up hearing the bored hymns in churches where nobody thought emotion was necessary. And the wales and cries of those who thought that emotion was everything. Who thought that they could replace and make up for their secret profound doubt deep inside by tearing up to some Christian song of praise.

<<>>

Fence sitting is existentially difficult isn't it? I fence sat for a year. Constant thought and grinding agony for a year. I went to a few extian websites at the time but most of them were too shallow. I tried to get into some of the deeper Christian Apologetics but I found that shallow too. The extian websites were shallow in that most of what they said weren't the reasons I was doubting. I could suspend judgement about those things, they didn't help my faith, but I could live with them I thought. What really got to me was my own experience with the whole thing. I found sin impossible to really conquer, and Christians always talked of "accountability" and I never heard of that in the Bible? I found hypocrisy, catch phrases, a lot of people unwilling to admit they were doubting, and because of it they were crippled intellectually and messed up in general. Sorry for my poor sentence structure. The extians had never been Christian enough to be good extians. I was a
good Christian. Like yourself, I knew more than my pastor and everybody elses pastor too. The Christians I was around treated me often treated me like dirt, and I treated them back with love. Some were nice I must admit. I'm not boasting, I'm being honest. I don't give a rip about any of this. It's all a joke what they did or I did, devil take it.

So you have become an "evil Atheist" I assume that you added evil as a humorous reference to how Christians will think of you. I believe you are sincere so forget that. Evil's not so scarry anyway. Anyway. Fence sitting isn't existentially feasable. Fence sitting between Christianity and agnosticism is less existentially feasable than between agnosticism and atheism. But I believe that you are refering to moral issues? In otherwords, for a while you searched for the mysterious essence, or something like that. And then you found that you couldn't find it, if it even existed. And then you found that what is unfindable is unmeaningful. And the issue here is whether there is anything to believe that makes sense at all? Something you can find with your being, and not through years or centuries of study. For if this "Thing" is existentially worth finding, then it must be findable. One interesting thing about life is that it happens. Samuel Beckett's play waiting for
Godot, (I hope you've seen or read it?) I think it's very applicable. I'll assume you have read it. There is no meaning when you're waiting for meaning. Atleast that's how I look at it. That interpretation is obvious to me because I've been there. I rode the fence for months, maybe a full year, and then I decided that fences aren't ridable. So I became an agnostic.... Whatever that means. I looked a while for The Thing. Which btw, that term is an invention of this message to be cute. I guess you could say I was looking for meaning. Meaning. What is meaning? You find meaning in making a webpage like this. Or maybe truth?

Well I existed like this for a long while. I had grinded my mind constantly. My job was a simple one and so I was able to think pretty much 24/7. I read anything I could. Actually that's a lie. I was bored with most everything I could read. Same old stuff on both sides. Like you I realized that Christians weren't at all able to help me. Shallow panny waists peddling malarky at charge. I went to bed at night listening to Enigma or maybe the soundtrack from Riven or some other nonsense. I wanted to sense and experience, and see what there was to know or do or feel or believe or not believe, or want, or be content with.

I feel like there's more I want to comment on. Let me go back and look. No I have a lot to say. I want to say that after a few years of solid doubt and then unbelief, or rather agnosticism, I slowly but surely came back to Christianity. But never in the way I left it. Before I left I knew it was a fraud, and in coming back I was a rebel. I can't stand church. Ignorance and stupidity fill those places.

I guess my statements about coming back to Christianity need more said about them. I'm still trying to perceive what I should say. I think I'd like to make a side comment that will maybe guide me back to the main theme.

I see we have another thing in common. A love for beautiful women. I guess 95% of men have this in common. I almost left your website as soon as I got here because of them. It seems rather insincere to have them on here, when trying to draw Christians away from Christianity. Or if your purpose is to encourage extians, then keep them up, they need them. I found them distracting and I confess to putting my hand up on the screen to help myself read what you had to say. I'm young and I have hot blood. But then after reading your anti testimony or whatever you called it, I can see where you're coming from. Anway, it seems to me that in leaving the pictures up, the Christian visitors who come to your site will probably find themselves lusting and sinning, and then find your message more pertinent about their religion being powerless. Because their religion is powerless. You have proven that and it isn't hard to prove.

Anyway, if you're read this far then thank-you, I am being more long winded than I intended to be, but the matter of how to approach you isn't exactly clear to me yet.

I guess I have little to say afterall. Or perhaps my little will take a few pages to say because even a little needs to be said properly. Life isn't just about ideas, it's about their meaning to human beings.

Your website is filled with antichristian arguments. Many of them seem to be well constructed, and sincere in nature. As a student of philosophy, as a well informed Christian, as an exextian (cute huh?), as a thinker, I don't find any of them compelling me to leave my faith or even doubt it's absolute truth at all. Some of the material on your website is more of a negative aesthetic association sort of thing, and soe essentially an attack against ignorant Christians rather than the Bible. But other stuff is a lot deeper. You use all your tools, I'll give you that forsure. Nothing is new here for me. I formulated half of these arguments myself independent of you, and the other half I don't care about. I believe in Christ once again and I have good reason to, having also had good reason not to. I have found Him to be the truth and His power is in no way lacking in my life. Case in point, I did not lust after the woman on your site. The glimpse I got made my heart bea
t fast but I wouldn't be writing this email if I let her get to me. I only bring this up because you say Christians are hypocrites. If I am then I'm also a liar. Some women are very beautiful. Intoxicatingly beautiful. Unbearably beautiful. I used to struggle with pornography and the guilt of partaking of it. Repenting and sinning again as soon as my drive became strong again. Lust, sin, let down, repentance, lust, sin, let down, repentance. It rendered me, not hypocritical, for I always looked for an answer, and I was young- but very angry because there were no answers! When I couldn't find one, I quit trying.

I see you as being very sincere. I wanted to share my testimony with you as also a very sincere one. I am far beyond needing to argue with anyone about these things. I don't really have the time to do it anyway. I believe time is valueable- despite the evidence to the contrary in my wordiness :-) (that's how I think).

So I'd like to be forward with you as to why I'm a Christian. I had reasons for why I specifically came back to faith in Christ.

A lot of my philosophical questions were answered by my own thinking for one. These are my answers and they don't come cheap apparently.

And I have reasons for coming back that I don't believe you'll find to be good at all. Maybe you will, maybe you won't.

Morally I needed a compass. I couldn't condone Hitler or Stalin. I couldn't condone surival of the fitest at any cost. I couldn't live without law. My own heart was incapable of making me live by anything. I needed directions and there were none without God. I could pretend there were but there weren't. But when I say I needed a compass. Don't think I compromised with reality. I threw out needs and looked reality squarely in the face willing to face whatever would come. Atheism or Christ or some sort of Henotheism or Pantheism or whatever.

I also needed meaning. A rose by any other name will smell as sweet. But a skunkweed by any other name won't. We can find our meaning within ourselves. We can deny meaning. We can play all kinds of games, but in the end we live for something. Perhaps our sex drives. But something didn't work for me. I could perceive that it wasn't just religion's influence that had brought whole aspects of mankind's personality to some sort of state of interest beyond my state of interest- sex. I believe that there is meaning in life, beauty, etc.... I find my source for meaning in God.

But all this, I wondered if it was my upbringing creating this "need"? If it was just the way I was raised? You'll notice I'm not arguing. I'm just stating. I don't know what I'm even saying forsure. You know. I think I do. I believe you are sincere. I've been through the same things. I want to offer you my exextian testimony. For you personally, man to man. I just want you to know I exist and that I am a bondslave of Jesus Christ. That way you can do whatever you want with your life but please know that I understand what you've been through and I've been there and I have been back again.

My needs for morality and meaning may could be weaknesses, or they could be my very nature programmed by God. Or they could be the leftovers of childhood. It's up to you to decide. I have reason for why I believe that they are needs but that reason is very deep, very personal, very intuitive. If it could be argued, and maybe it can, I wouldn't argue it; that's not the point.

It took me several years to readjust to even reading my Bible when I came back to God. At first I had to vomit out all the stuff I had been taught before. The catch phrases, the theology that Scripture didn't teach. The soft answers to real questions. The same stuff you spit on, I spit on. I remember when I was in my doubt, I knew I could write the book that would kill Christianity once and for all. I hadn't seen your website at the time and most of the extian websites were too shallow. Their arguments were more aesthetically compelling than logically compelling. Few people deal completely honestly. To be honest, I believe you're sincere, but I see stuff on your website that shows me your heart is pretty hard now. The images of the women. Some of the other images are rather mocking. You can leave Christ without abusing Him can't you? You'd look more objective if you just left out all the banners and fire and lewdness and you would look more respectable. I guess
in spilling my guts to you I'm suffering for you. I have a lot of reason to call you my enemy and to not trust you. I am a very real person and I want to be up front here as well. I don't like writing you. Broadcasting my worldview and heart to you who hate my God and fight against what I fight for? No I won't like knowing you have this knowledge of my life in your hands. If anyone could make me loose my religion it would be you right? No that's not the real source of my suffering. The real source may yet reveal itself.

I want to give you a chance to change your mind about your decision in leaving, not the church (the church is pathetic), but in leaving Jesus Christ. When I was an agnostic, I eventually got over needing to write about how it's all false. The religious were religious and the extians and pagans were extians and pagans. Who cared? Let them be, I came to conclude. Who really cared? My own parents were afraid to talk to me about my unbelief. It really hurt me. I lost all my sense of self esteem. I was so tied into my knowledge of theology and Christianity, that when I lost it, I lost everything.

Anyway I'm several times lost in thought. I want to say.... The answer is within your sense of the value and meaning of things. Within your willingness to be honest with your own heart about how you feel about moral issues, if there are any for you. Can you condone survival of the fitest and would you like to live in such a world? I used to think I would at times. But then I realized I wouldn't be fitest in such a world. I've been a little sickly for years. I'm just throwing questions out. Only you can give answers.

But there is an answer found in my testimony to you, one man to another. I have found Jesus Christ to be the truth. The fact that you were struggling with lust as a young man shows something. It showed something about me too. Let me pour out some more to you whom I have not met; my declared enemy whom I love.

I've suffered a lot lately. My sister came close to death and the cause has been parasitic infection. I've grown up with bad health problems and round worms and tape worms have been the unknown and undiagnosed (until now) cause. You told Christians to be honest with themselves and you put a lot of pertinent Scriptures in there. Christians really don't keep Christ's commands and so they shouldn't call themselves Christians. Maybe there are no Christians left? I can't remember, I think you said there weren't. I agree. But knowing these things..., these Bible passages you quoted in your Plea- when did you learn them Dave? Wasn't it when you still considered yourself a Christian? That's when I learned them. I always wondered about them. Not whether they were true, for I came to believe them. But I wondered..., how my church could be so incredibly stupid to not teach them. Then I got to the point before my doubt, where I couldn't go to church because I was trying to
live the's Bible teaching, and nobody would support me. Only tear me down with their nonsense religious "praise songs." The whole thing fell as I tried to do the impossible and live the Christian life.

But something's happened to me. After coming out of my doubt I learned a lot of different things. I slowly but surely came back to reading my Bible over a couple year period. For a long time any Christian word would make me almost puke. I coudn't stand them!!!! I couldn't stand any of them. I replaced them with philosophical words and studied philosophy independently of the Bible. I continued thinking etc.... Well through various circumstances and existential needs and sufferings I came back to The Bible- all the hard, violent, and obscene, parts included. When did you learn those passages of Scripture set forth in your Plea to us Christians? I think it was when you still called yourself a Christian. But did you ever follow them? I know you tried. Maybe you tried your very hardest. But did you ever follow them Dave? Were you really ever able to give up your lust for women in exchange for the God who created woman? Before my doubt I never followed those Scriptu
res fully either. I tried, I failed, I tried again, I failed again. Repeated that 1000 times and you have my story at that time in my life. I loved God enough to feel bad for my sin and I loved my sin enough to feel bad when I didn't partake of it.

Dave, it seems you left Christianity because it doesn't work and because the church is laughably ridiculous. That's why I left. It got beaten out of me! But there's more here. There are other passages. Jesus said in some place. "When the Son of Man returns, will He find faith on the Earth?" And in another place it is written, "Because of the increase in wickedness, the love of most will grow cold." Could our experience be normal for the times in which we are living? Maybe you don't like it, but admit that Christianity predicted it's own failure. Or maybe not. Maybe failure is a strong word. It predicted it's own repulsiveness to the point where people wouldn't be willing to follow it in view of the immediate pleasures of lust and materialism etc.... There is a lot hard to accept in the Bible! The church with it's doctrines of absurdity, like original sin, and calvinism or arminianism, or dispensationalism and covenant theology, make a mockery out of philosophy a
nd out of Scripture. Christian catch phrases make everything seem rosy when things are complex and big, just like God. Jesus said things that made him repulsive to most people of his day! He didn't mind saying those things. But I remember being at a Bible study recently where the teacher taught, "Failing constructively." The sermon title was "One day with Jesus. What would we learn?" "Failing constructively was on the list. He didn't support it with Scripture. He felt the need to add it I guess. Considering the fact that we all do fail and we must do it constructively..., blah blah blah. Whatever. If he would have pulled from Scripture he might have found. "Why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord'and do not do what I say?" (Luke 6.)

I'm driving at something here Dave. Jesus says in Jn. 12 "He who loves his life will loose it but he who looses his life for my sake will gain it to life eternal." Paul says in Phillipians 3 that he counts all things loss for the sake of Christ. And that he rejoices in suffering for those he is writing to. He then tells them to adopt his passion and suffer for the growth in faith of others. But if there is no resurrection, we are of all men most miserable he says in 1 Cor. 15. Somebody lived it. Paul did. Others have since. I humbly want to say I'm one of them. I should get sleep. This whole thing is being written in one setting and my kidneys are hurting from some of the events surrounding the extermination of these parasites. I am just being honest to show you that I am willing myself to live my faith, and that I'm not afraid either to tell it like it is. Jesus wasn't afraid to say He's God's Son, and I'm not afraid to say the same.

There is a real issue here Dave. Grab a hold on life and you find that lust and sex and power are limited. Beauty is limited and pornography is an artistic form that hides the reality's of life. Nomatter what your age you can always look at 18 year olds. Ofcourse, age may dullen your appreciation for them. But sometimes silent pictures are easier to enjoy than a stupid woman (no sexism intended or implied). But a real woman responds! But she can carry diseases and heartache for those with hearts. And if you have no heart will she be catchable without rape? But rape isn't natural because then she won't respond. Unless you have appetite for it. If you're healthy, 4 orgasms and you're out for some time until the passion returns. It's all a mess. Our fairy tales dream of love. As children we believe in romance don't we? I don't know. In the end what it all comes to, is, it's up to you to decide. I want to get back on track.

Faith is always forward. You didn't keep going forward and you lost the light you had. Invest or loose. Some seed falls on soil that can't grow because it isn't right. Yet Paul says in Phillipians that even he himself forgot what lay behind and pressed forward. And then in the last few verses of the chapter 3, he talks of those who are enemies of the cross of Christ. Who's god is their stomach and glory is their shame. Who set their minds on Earthly things. But our citizenship is in heaven and we eagerly await a Savior from there, The Lord Jesus Christ....

He is basically drawing the lines. You either focus on Earth and live without faith- eventually being consumed by worms, be they nematoads or cestoads..., or you set your hope on something much much better. On a resurrection body, on a future life in a kingdom in which all is made right again and suffering is extinguised. Yet maybe that's just a dream for infant minded fools like myself.

This decision for faith in the next world where my citizenship is, has been a difficult one. I have been plagued with questions and drives. The sex drive topping the list! I'm still single and staying away from lust is a daily thing in a modern environment with unclothed women at every corner and nobody to see. If there is no God, then I'm suffering a lot in vain!! But let me draw the lines for you myself.

Christianity didn't work for you, the whole thing was a flop in your own life and in the lives of those around you. I've been there.

But what would have happened if you would have chosen to look beyond your church, knowing that Scripture contradicts your church's teachings or atleast emphasis..., and would have truly learned to take up your cross daily and follow Christ, setting your hope beyond your sex drive and into the next world? He gave you insight, were you too weak to exercise it? Did you have no fear of God and the "Christians" around you had less than yourself? Maybe you couldn't keep going. I couldn't. I fell into doubt and agnosticism. But I'm offering you a second chance. This offer extends until the day you die. Repent and you will find He is still there. Maybe you never knew Him before. Maybe reason seems to hold you back. God created it; our sense of it is finite and limited. Look at Christians who can't see the Scripture in front of them and still believe blindly in their falsehood. You and I both agree on one thing. Modern Christians are hypocrites. Jesus spoke to the rich y
oung ruler. One thing you lack. Go and sell all your posessions and give the money to the poor and come and follow me.... The rich young ruler went away sad for he owned many things. How hard it is for those who have pleasure and power right in front of them to enter heaven. I understand.

If you never really ever believed in Christ enough to come to the repentence He called you to, then how can you say you tried it? You never did. You tried church doctrine, not Bible doctrine. Yes I know. I spoke as you speak. Don't answer me, answer yourself. It's too hard; it's impossible come to my mind. NO IT ISN'T Dave! I live it and I know others who do. Few, but yes they exist. Somtimes they sin, and fail. Sometimes I do to. But it is rare and rarer all the time- and we are alone. We aren't being encouraged or helped. Everbody is halfhearted or cop out and not admitting it. Our churches are our often our worst enemies. But we are surviving, yeah even conquering through our God! What is impossible through our flesh is possible through faith. And faith is tested and does grow. And we can know God and He can bless us to be free of sin. The Bible says we are dead to sin. It's my experience that through faith I am.

Dave. At any point in your life when you are willing to really repent and set your hope on the next world instead of this one, giving up all that holds you to this Earth. At that time, you'll find that through faith and patience and humility, HE IS THE TRUTH.

If you don't take Jesus' words seriously enough to follow them fully, you'll find yourself failing the way you did before. I never conquered my "big sins" until I repented of my little ones. Until I freed myself from my own right to myself and gave myself to God as a bondslave willing to suffer anything for love of Him, in response to His love of me, I couldn't conquer anything. And really all I was doing was for once in my life, taking Christ as seriously as He asked, unlike the whole world, and the whole church does (with very few exceptions). I counted everything loss in view of Him and I gained Him. I've tried it and it works.

Another thing I want to offer you is this testimony. Not only do I have power in my life to conquer sin, and particularly lust, but I also speak with God. When I pray He answers. And I don't get mostly no's. I get constant yes's. Some "wait's" but rarely a no. "If my words abide in you, ask what you wish and it shall be done for you...."

Just the other week for example, God spoke in my heart to pray for my boss, who is a Christian herself. I don't know her very well because I work only part time at this job and rarely with her, but she has young kids I've seen, and I felt convicted that she needed to quit her job so she could spend time with them instead of being a workaholic mom like she is. 2 months later after that prayer she quit. I had almost forgotten about the prayer but I remembered it and I asked another employee why she quit? "So she could spend time with her kids" Came the answer back. This is just one case in point. I don't expect such possible coincidences to convince you. They don't convince me either. They just happen. I don't need convincing.

One night a couple years back I lay out under the stars, sort of camping out in my backyard. I've only shared this with my close friends but I want to share it with you. I was praying. Now having come out of my unbelief I came to learn a lot about the nature of faith. And I believed. But I was out there praying and suddenly I asked God if He'd send a meteorite in a particular portion of the night sky for me. I felt it would be no trouble for Him. I hadn't seen one all night though being out there for an hour already, and I felt if He was God He could and maybe should do it since I was His son. As soon as I said that I said, "wait, I don't need a sign. I would doubt it was You if I saw it anyway! (I would think it was a coincidence and a wicked generation asks for a sign.)" And just at that very instant when I got the last word out, the meteor shot bright and cut right through the section of the sky I was gazing into,(where I had asked for my sign to appear.) What d
o you think my reaction was? I immediately doubted God sent it. But then I caught myself and reasoned backwards, and just chuckled. That was one of the most fun experiences of my life. I played chess with God for an instant and He gave me a move. I felt honored and still do. And I got something sealed in my mind once and for all, that I already believed firmly, but maybe not in my emotional center. And that is that only faith can see God. Sight is blind in this regard. The senses are for observing phenomena. Faith is for coming in direct contact with the nomena. With reality, with God. It's your choice. Of course, what is your reaction to my story? Does the sign convince you? Me neither. But I believe the sign was from God through faith. I didn't see another meteor the rest of the night.

I want to bring up one last point.

It is highly absurd to set our hopes on the next life isn't it? But I think that life itself can bring a man to not see it as being near as absurd as he may at first think it is. The door of suffering may open someday and whole sections of reality come to light that can't be existentially dealt with through our limited world view. But I guess every animal dies unwillingly huh? Except True Christians :-) It's up to you to decide. I don't know what to expect from you in the way of response if you have any. I'm not asking for one. It's up to you, I'm a busy guy but if you want to write, so be it. If not so be it. There's not much to talk about. We both know about eachother. If the things I've said aren't interesting to you now, maybe someday years from now you'll find them so. Will you do me one favor? Remember.

Your Friend,
Benjamin J. Scott

John 3:16-21 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."

Benjamin Scott